Lexus to roll out all-new sedan lineup by '06; BMW loyalists targeted

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: RiDE

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: RiDE

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: NFS4

i think that will be a very difficult task for lexus...which is known to make boats

Considering that Lexus has a lineup of 4 sedans, 50% are geared towards luxury, and 50% are geared towards sport. Seems pretty reasonable to me and not needing of a blanket statement like that.

that doesn't say that the IS and GS ARE boats, just that people THINK lexus makes boats. reading comprehension.

ah i see the point has already been clarified.
The ES is a freaking boat. The IS is less of a boat, but compared to the 330ci its still a boat. The handling of the IS doesnt even compare the handling of the 330. Thats the point I was trying to make. And the blanket statement is valid. Lexus cars in general are more boatish when compared to BMW cars...even lexus' "sport sedan" series. Go test drive a IS300 and then go test drive a 330ci. You are smoking crack if you dont notice the BMW to handle 100x better

I would like to know how the normal John Doe can differentiate as to which car handles better.

the average american lard ass cant. but people who are labeled as "loyalists" or car enthusiasts can differentiate as to which car handles better. I mean, that is what this thread is about, isnt it? BMW loyalists...

Ok so can you please tell me what you did to come to the conclusion as to which car handles better? Since you did say the BMW handles better than the IS.

ummm. i drove them both can came to such conclusion.... isnt that what anyone would do? well anyone except specification thumpers

 

[RiDE]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: NFS4

i think that will be a very difficult task for lexus...which is known to make boats

Considering that Lexus has a lineup of 4 sedans, 50% are geared towards luxury, and 50% are geared towards sport. Seems pretty reasonable to me and not needing of a blanket statement like that.

that doesn't say that the IS and GS ARE boats, just that people THINK lexus makes boats. reading comprehension.

ah i see the point has already been clarified.
The ES is a freaking boat. The IS is less of a boat, but compared to the 330ci its still a boat. The handling of the IS doesnt even compare the handling of the 330. Thats the point I was trying to make. And the blanket statement is valid. Lexus cars in general are more boatish when compared to BMW cars...even lexus' "sport sedan" series. Go test drive a IS300 and then go test drive a 330ci. You are smoking crack if you dont notice the BMW to handle 100x better

No one is saying that the IS300 or GS430 is gonna out handle a BMW 3-Series or 5-Series. Hell, PRACTICALLY NO ONE CAN MATCH THOSE TWO CARS IN HANDLING. So b/c a car doesn't come to the holy-grail watermark of the 3/5 doesn't make it a boatish car...far from it.

you are missing the point again. I'm comparing...since this whole thread is about a comparison (BMW vs Lexus). IS300 is more boatish WHEN COMPARED to the 330. THAT IS WHY LEXUS CANNOT CONVERT BMW LOYALISTS...imo

I think you should wait for the new IS to come out before you make that judgment. The current IS is too old already and may have been good enough back then, but feels like a "boat", according to "enthusiasts", compared to the BMW.

 

[chilled]

Good God, I can't believe it! It's meant to be form over function!

<<Hopes this craziness doesn't reach Europe>>

Seriously though! Wouldn't you guys prefer a nice Jaguar or BMW instead of a Lexus on your drive? Granted you would get marginally less perfection and bits would break off as you head home from the dealer...

My cousin lives in the US and wanted to buy a new car. So he decided to get a Nissan Altima. Why? Well, apparantly American cars are very unreliable and a second hand car is hugely unreliable. From a European perspective I would not spend $19k getting a Nissan.

Hell, I've had a small little Fiat which I bought for £1100 5 years ago - its now 10 years old. It has never been serviced properly and it's tappets needed changing from the day I got it (haven't done it yet!). It has a tiny 0.9 litre engine (yes, thats 900cc with 41bhp) and it's done about 20k miles since I bought it. Bear in mind that I'm in Europe and use the car to travel about 5 miles everyday with a laden load of 3 adults / maybe 4 sometimes. So what's gone wrong on it: A few tyres, a battery (rough driving by me) and a clutch cable. I would call that pretty darn reliable for such donkey work! See it's tiny! I'm a little bemused by how unreliable you deem your cars!

IMHO, most European cars (please note use of the word most but not all!) have much more flair and carisma than the Japanese cars which just seem to be aimed more at functionality.

 

[RiDE]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: RiDE

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: RiDE

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: NFS4

i think that will be a very difficult task for lexus...which is known to make boats

Considering that Lexus has a lineup of 4 sedans, 50% are geared towards luxury, and 50% are geared towards sport. Seems pretty reasonable to me and not needing of a blanket statement like that.

that doesn't say that the IS and GS ARE boats, just that people THINK lexus makes boats. reading comprehension.

ah i see the point has already been clarified.
The ES is a freaking boat. The IS is less of a boat, but compared to the 330ci its still a boat. The handling of the IS doesnt even compare the handling of the 330. Thats the point I was trying to make. And the blanket statement is valid. Lexus cars in general are more boatish when compared to BMW cars...even lexus' "sport sedan" series. Go test drive a IS300 and then go test drive a 330ci. You are smoking crack if you dont notice the BMW to handle 100x better

I would like to know how the normal John Doe can differentiate as to which car handles better.

the average american lard ass cant. but people who are labeled as "loyalists" or car enthusiasts can differentiate as to which car handles better. I mean, that is what this thread is about, isnt it? BMW loyalists...

Ok so can you please tell me what you did to come to the conclusion as to which car handles better? Since you did say the BMW handles better than the IS.

ummm. i drove them both can came to such conclusion.... isnt that what anyone would do? well anyone except specification thumpers

Drove them where? On the street? Ok that answers my question.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: NFS4

i think that will be a very difficult task for lexus...which is known to make boats

Considering that Lexus has a lineup of 4 sedans, 50% are geared towards luxury, and 50% are geared towards sport. Seems pretty reasonable to me and not needing of a blanket statement like that.

that doesn't say that the IS and GS ARE boats, just that people THINK lexus makes boats. reading comprehension.

ah i see the point has already been clarified.
The ES is a freaking boat. The IS is less of a boat, but compared to the 330ci its still a boat. The handling of the IS doesnt even compare the handling of the 330. Thats the point I was trying to make. And the blanket statement is valid. Lexus cars in general are more boatish when compared to BMW cars...even lexus' "sport sedan" series. Go test drive a IS300 and then go test drive a 330ci. You are smoking crack if you dont notice the BMW to handle 100x better

No one is saying that the IS300 or GS430 is gonna out handle a BMW 3-Series or 5-Series. Hell, PRACTICALLY NO ONE CAN MATCH THOSE TWO CARS IN HANDLING. So b/c a car doesn't come to the holy-grail watermark of the 3/5 doesn't make it a boatish car...far from it.

you are missing the point again. I'm comparing...since this whole thread is about a comparison (BMW vs Lexus). IS300 is more boatish WHEN COMPARED to the 330. THAT IS WHY LEXUS CANNOT CONVERT BMW LOYALISTS...imo

Isn't the article about the next generation IS? They are AIMING to convert BMW loyalists. The current IS300 may not handle as well, but the new IS paired up against the new 3 maybe a different story.

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: RiDE
I think you should wait for the new IS to come out before you make that judgment. The current IS is too old already and may have been good enough back then, but feels like a "boat", according to "enthusiasts", compared to the BMW.

if you havent noticed, that is why I am adding the "IMO" to most of my posts. Cuz for all i know lexus will come out with a superhandling car. But I dont know that. As of now, BMWs are the king when it comes to handling (in the sedan market)

As for the IS being old....that's not a valid point cuz when the IS was new, it still got its ass handed to it by that year's 3series (when it came to handling)

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: RiDE

Drove them where? On the street? Ok that answers my question.

where else would you drive them? on cloud 9? now I know lexus gives you the feeling that you are floating in the air, but you are actually riding on the street.

and if you take them both to the track....the IS will still get beat around the twisties by the 330

i still dont understand what you meant by above statement... i drove them both... 330 took corners better, had less sway, less dive on braking, felt stable around fast curves....
IS wasnt BAD at those...but the 330 was just better

 

[FrustratedUser]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: chilled

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Aharami
nop. cant do it. sorry. cant compare a boat to the feel of a bimmer

Doesn't matter. Lexus already outsells BMW, has better customer service, has better built and more reliable cars with comparable resale value.

Not in Europe they don't! And they have lower resale value here!

I don't see the attraction - they're just Toyota's aimed at the luxurious car sector!

:roll:

Why the rolling eyes? That is the fact.

 

[Turkish]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: RiDE

Drove them where? On the street? Ok that answers my question.

where else would you drive them? on cloud 9? now I know lexus gives you the feeling that you are floating in the air, but you are actually riding on the street.

That was hilarious! 😀

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: chilled

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Aharami
nop. cant do it. sorry. cant compare a boat to the feel of a bimmer

Doesn't matter. Lexus already outsells BMW, has better customer service, has better built and more reliable cars with comparable resale value.

Not in Europe they don't! And they have lower resale value here!

I don't see the attraction - they're just Toyota's aimed at the luxurious car sector!

:roll:

Why the rolling eyes? That is the fact.

So the Audi A8L 6.0 W12 is a really expensive VW?

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: chilled

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Aharami
nop. cant do it. sorry. cant compare a boat to the feel of a bimmer

Doesn't matter. Lexus already outsells BMW, has better customer service, has better built and more reliable cars with comparable resale value.

Not in Europe they don't! And they have lower resale value here!

I don't see the attraction - they're just Toyota's aimed at the luxurious car sector!

:roll:

Why the rolling eyes? That is the fact.

So the Audi A8L 6.0 W12 is a really expensive VW?

look up the history of audi and VW. Audi was acquired by VW...not created, like lexus was by toyota.

 

[chilled]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: NFS4

So the Audi A8L 6.0 W12 is a really expensive VW?

look up the history of audi and VW. Audi was acquired by VW...not created, like lexus was by toyota.

Agreed.

BTW, Why does it seem Audi/VW are known to have poor reliablilty in the US? All Europeans know that they make good reliable cars!

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: chilled

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Aharami
nop. cant do it. sorry. cant compare a boat to the feel of a bimmer

Doesn't matter. Lexus already outsells BMW, has better customer service, has better built and more reliable cars with comparable resale value.

Not in Europe they don't! And they have lower resale value here!

I don't see the attraction - they're just Toyota's aimed at the luxurious car sector!

:roll:

Why the rolling eyes? That is the fact.

So the Audi A8L 6.0 W12 is a really expensive VW?

look up the history of audi and VW. Audi was acquired by VW...not created, like lexus was by toyota.

So, that means absolutely nothing TODAY. Audi's and VW's TODAY share platforms, engines, electrical components, transmissions, suspensions, etc. So if you're gonna say that Lexus is a Toyota, you might as well go ahead and say that an Audi is a VW.

That being said, Audi and VW dealerships and ownership experiences are generally vastly different. Same goes for Toyota and Lexus.

 

[SuperTool]

2006 Lexus IS prototype.

 

[Turkish]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
2006 Lexus IS prototype.

ROFLMAO! 😀

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: NFS4

So, that means absolutely nothing TODAY. Audi's and VW's TODAY share platforms, engines, electrical components, transmissions, suspensions, etc. So if you're gonna say that Lexus is a Toyota, you might as well go ahead and say that an Audi is a VW.

That being said, Audi and VW dealerships and ownership experiences are generally vastly different. Same goes for Toyota and Lexus.

I'll give you that. I own a VW and i frequent at vwvortex forums. Ive heard their "stelatership" horror stories...but luckily I havent come across any such horror stories yet.
Back to the point. although audi and VW share parts, they are viewed as different brands partly due to the fact that VWs are made here/mexico/brazil and audis are made in germany. The dogree of differentiation between lexus and toyota is less partly for the fact that both their best selling cars (camry and ES) look VERY similar

also lexus/acura/infinity only exists in the US market where its created for the luxury class. Audis are Audis here, and in the rest of the world...they arent sold as VWs. which goes back to the original point...toyota created lexus as a separate entity for the US market (a damn good business plan)

 

[z0mb13]

comparing current cars

BMW>lexus in handling and fun factor

lexus is probably better in luxury, the LS is such a bargain compared to the 7 series, but the LS is like a boat..

 

[z0mb13]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: chilled

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Aharami
nop. cant do it. sorry. cant compare a boat to the feel of a bimmer

Doesn't matter. Lexus already outsells BMW, has better customer service, has better built and more reliable cars with comparable resale value.

Not in Europe they don't! And they have lower resale value here!

I don't see the attraction - they're just Toyota's aimed at the luxurious car sector!

:roll:

Why the rolling eyes? That is the fact.

So the Audi A8L 6.0 W12 is a really expensive VW?

look up the history of audi and VW. Audi was acquired by VW...not created, like lexus was by toyota.

So, that means absolutely nothing TODAY. Audi's and VW's TODAY share platforms, engines, electrical components, transmissions, suspensions, etc. So if you're gonna say that Lexus is a Toyota, you might as well go ahead and say that an Audi is a VW.

That being said, Audi and VW dealerships and ownership experiences are generally vastly different. Same goes for Toyota and Lexus.

The Lexus IS a toyota in other parts of the world

the lexus brand is created simply for the US market. Toyota is introducing the lexus brand in japan

 

[mb]

The new Lexus models look too much like Toyotas. At least before they were quite distinct, now, not so much.

 

[z0mb13]

I retract my statement

😀😀

 

[RiDE]

Originally posted by: z0mb13
IMO I dont see this happening in the future

a lot of lexus cars share the same chassis with toyota cars, and we all know toyotas dont handle that well

unless they make a completely diff chasis for these new cars (which is not economically sound), lexus will still be boats..

Tell me which CARS share the same chassis, other than the ES330 and the Camry.

 

[RiDE]

Originally posted by: z0mb13

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: chilled

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Aharami
nop. cant do it. sorry. cant compare a boat to the feel of a bimmer

Doesn't matter. Lexus already outsells BMW, has better customer service, has better built and more reliable cars with comparable resale value.

Not in Europe they don't! And they have lower resale value here!

I don't see the attraction - they're just Toyota's aimed at the luxurious car sector!

:roll:

Why the rolling eyes? That is the fact.

So the Audi A8L 6.0 W12 is a really expensive VW?

look up the history of audi and VW. Audi was acquired by VW...not created, like lexus was by toyota.

So, that means absolutely nothing TODAY. Audi's and VW's TODAY share platforms, engines, electrical components, transmissions, suspensions, etc. So if you're gonna say that Lexus is a Toyota, you might as well go ahead and say that an Audi is a VW.

That being said, Audi and VW dealerships and ownership experiences are generally vastly different. Same goes for Toyota and Lexus.

The Lexus IS a toyota in other parts of the world

the lexus brand is created simply for the US market. Toyota is introducing the lexus brand in japan

You make it sound like he didn't know that. He wasn't even arguing that.

 

[z0mb13]

camry and gs?

hmm I dont really know what chasis the gs is based on....

 

[z0mb13]

Originally posted by: RiDE

Originally posted by: z0mb13

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: chilled

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Aharami
nop. cant do it. sorry. cant compare a boat to the feel of a bimmer

Doesn't matter. Lexus already outsells BMW, has better customer service, has better built and more reliable cars with comparable resale value.

Not in Europe they don't! And they have lower resale value here!

I don't see the attraction - they're just Toyota's aimed at the luxurious car sector!

:roll:

Why the rolling eyes? That is the fact.

So the Audi A8L 6.0 W12 is a really expensive VW?

look up the history of audi and VW. Audi was acquired by VW...not created, like lexus was by toyota.

So, that means absolutely nothing TODAY. Audi's and VW's TODAY share platforms, engines, electrical components, transmissions, suspensions, etc. So if you're gonna say that Lexus is a Toyota, you might as well go ahead and say that an Audi is a VW.

That being said, Audi and VW dealerships and ownership experiences are generally vastly different. Same goes for Toyota and Lexus.

The Lexus IS a toyota in other parts of the world

the lexus brand is created simply for the US market. Toyota is introducing the lexus brand in japan

You make it sound like he didn't know that. He wasn't even arguing that.

his analogy of vw and audi is false

vw and audi were 2 diff car manufactures

 

[maddogchen]

Damn I gotta wait till Fall 2005 to see what the new IS looks like? BOOOO

Anyone got a real pic of what the prototype looks like?