so sick of the LBJ MJ comparisons...cant watch ESPN
Agreed. Completely different style of players, completely different era/rules. ESPN is the "best" as eschewing real analysis of games and instead focusing on whatever broad soap opera aspect they can sell. That way they don't need real experts or don't ever have to be wrong. As long as most sports fans are clueless idiots who don't understand the sport and only watch it due to peer pressure of having to fit in at the watercooler, ESPN will continue to provide nothing close to real analysis of games.
They also have the best ratings, so apparently this soap opera stuff is working for them.
Again, most sports fans are clueless. They watch the ball and not the play.
I for one don't expect it to change for the better anytime soon.
It's a game. If they're entertained, who gives a shit? Honestly, I don't know if anything could possibly sound more holier-than-thou than someone saying, "No, you're not watching the game right, focus on the PLAY man!"
Anyone who compares LBJ to Jordan is an asshole.
If Jordan had fled the Bulls to sign with the Lakers after failing to get past the Pistons in the playoffs, then we could compare MJ and Lebron.
Both MJ's were drafted by very well run franchises with very talented players. Cleveland never gave LBJ a supporting cast as good as any of either team's championship supporting casts. Cleveland sucks as a city, and management was incompetent, and the coaches were nowhere near as good as Riley or Jackson.
Look at the roster of the Chicago Bulls during the years they struggled in the playoffs. A young Pippen, Horace Grant, Bill Cartwright, and junk with a mid 30's Doug Collins in his first head coaching job.
Your "facts" are not even close. Jordan played alongside a HoFer in Pippen for all 6 rings. He played with the greatest rebounder (by far) the game has ever seen and another HoFer in Rodman. Jordan's championships came at the helm of a HoFer coach who has won multiple championships without Jordan.
You compare that to Lebron's second best guy, the only all star he played with in Cleveland, Mo Williams? Mo Williams? Mo "I couldn't even start for the Clippers or Jazz" Williams? In the same breath as Pippen.
You are reaching.
Far.
That doesn't even begin to take into account how weak the league was at the time, and how drastically different the game is today.
This cracks me up.
Look at the roster of the Chicago Bulls during the years they struggled in the playoffs. A young Pippen, Horace Grant, Bill Cartwright, and junk with a mid 30's Doug Collins in his first head coaching job.
Lebron had about the same level of talent and coaching around him. Rather than elevate his teammates or find ways to improve his game to win, he took off.
One player exerted his will to win, the other bolted for greener pastures. Simple as that.
Did the Bulls eventually make some solid moves and hire a better head coach? Yes, that's without question. Jordan didn't leave the franchise before that happened, whereas were Lebron in Jordan's shoes he would have.
Jordan had Pippen and Phil alongside him while he was still losing in the playoffs.
Wait wait wait, so the Cav team Lebron was on was as good as the Bulls team Jordan was on? I'm totally dumbfounded that anyone could say Lebron had the same level team he just didn't have the will to win. The Cavs besides James.. Mo Williams was the best player and the only player worth mentioning. After Jordan retired the Bulls still made it to the playoffs the next and had a pretty damn good season overall. The season after Lebron left the Cav's I believe they had the worst record in the NBA.
MJ >>>>>> Lebron.
At the present time sure, but James is a few months away from having the single best season of any NBA player ever, and some argue he's already there. By the end of his Lebron's career it won't even be a contest who was better.
OK, you're clearly not worth talking to regarding basketball.
Ask 1989 Jordan of 32/8/8/3, 1962 Oscar Robertson 30/12/11, or 1962 Wilt 50/26/3 if Lebron's 27/8/7/1.7 is the greatest single season ever.
Kids....
Ask 1989 Jordan of 32/8/8/3, 1962 Oscar Robertson 30/12/11, or 1962 Wilt 50/26/3 if Lebron's 27/8/7/1.7 is the greatest single season ever.
Kids....
Pace. Pace. Pace.
Wilt has the best rebounding per numbers in NBA history. But when he played (and Oscar) teams were hoisting 150 shots a game and nobody other than Bill Russell played defense. With that many shots, there were more points, rebounds and assists to go around. Though Rodman's rebounding per numbers are tiny compared to Wilt, nobody in NBA history is close to Rodman in percentage of rebounds collected. That is the proper way to adjust for pace.
The NBA in the 80s and 90s was all about ISO players, no ball movement, and players standing around. If you were a scorer you were king. Kobe, Durant and Melo would have dominated like Jordan (think 38ppg) if they played back then or the rules were the same today. The 5 second post rule, hand checking, moving screens and zone defenses all worked to make the game more fluid and move away from ISO ball.
You couldn't double a player in the Jordan era until he had the ball. For a dynamic scorer, that is too late to do anything. These days teams trap the top players and run weakside zone defenses. It forces the ball out of the hands of a particular player and puts increased emphasis on the offensive quality of the #2 and #3 guys on a team to beat a good defense.
I read an article this season that was talking about the difference defense makes these days and it illustrated the point by mentioning that at the time of the article there were something like 8 players averaging 20ppg or more. Just 10 years prior, before most of the rule changes had gone into effect, there were nearly 30 players averaging 20ppg. This comes at a time when the top 15 players in the NBA are clearly head and shoulders better than the early 2000s top 15 guys. That will certainly be conclusive decades from now when you look at HoF stock.
Comparing raw numbers is silly, you compare a player to what his competition at the time is doing. Jordan was clearly the top player in his day, and clearly one of the great scorers in NBA history. Lebron is a swiss army knife of a player that can play 1 through 4 on offense and defend 1 through 5 on defense, all while having amazing court vision and a willingness to move the ball around. His mentality isn't that of a scorer. Melo and Durant are much more fair comparisons to Jordan, and would likely put up similar numbers as Jordan did if they played in his era.