Let's talk about tire psi - Inflating to sidewall

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boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
A fucking tire fetish. Just when you think you've heard it all.

I told you in the garage that you've developed an obsession and need to seek help. I'll tell you again here. It's not normal to have your thoughts so completely overtaken with tire inflation.

It's not normal. You're not alone.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
God not fleabag again. He think he knows more than these engineers and does stupid crap like fill his gastank with sand and cheat on SAT tests.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
Originally posted by: SunnyD
This thread only illustrates one point to me: The mods must be out to humiliate someone today given this thread is still here.
He had the same thing going in the Garage today. It got locked. He took over what was intended to be an amusing anecdotal thread with his obsessions.
 

PhoKingGuy

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2007
4,685
0
76
Thread forwarded to Hyundai again, they'll get a laugh out of it.

Fleabag, my roommate said if you would like to apply for an engineering internship, they would look at your application....and go from there.

Oh....and motion for ownage of the year
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
I have been driving for a long time and always have inflated my tires to sidewall pressure.

No any more after reading this thread, thanks for the information all (except fleebag)


:thumbsup:
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: InflatableBuddha
We already do.

P&N ------->

To what pressure should one inflate a Buddha anyway?

ZV

Zen, can you ban fleabag from posting in the Garage section so he doesn't get others killed by his "expert" advice?
 

FeuerFrei

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2005
9,144
929
126
Originally posted by: fleabag
I've had great experience with inflating my tires to sidewall but it seems like there are a lot of dissenters out there who desperately cling to manufacturer suggestions of inflating tires to the PSI they desire. These people are so dogmatic that they wouldn't even dare do otherwise for it will risk tainting their values and what they hold true to themselves. You can give these people empirical evidence until you're blue in the face but unless there is a happy little sticker to accompanied said suggestion, they refuse to follow it. These people also don't seem to be aware that if one inflate their tires to 32psi when it's 32F outside that their tires would like be at the sidewall PSI rating or higher when it's 90F outside. The only things they're capable of knowing are those things can be readily found with google, as personal experience is not something they can relate to because sitting and home arguing with people over the internet about things they don't know about is so much easier.

Let me clarify a few things about tires, specifically radials.

Radial tires do NOT "balloon" when inflated unlike bias plys. The industry suggestion that your tires will wear down the very center is false when it comes to radial tires as this suggestion is a carryover from yesteryear's bias and bias ply tires.

Inflating your tires to sidewall or even twice the rating of sidewall isn't going to make them POP. For your viewing pleasure, I'm linking to a video of rednecks inflating a DRY ROTTED and SPLIT tire. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hEUeRFQL9A That tire was inflated to at least 160psi, and very possibly 175 psi.

Overinflation is a relative term, a radial tire mounted in the front of a vehicle, inflated to sidewall is not going to wear down the very center compared to tire inflated to its "recommended level of inflation as indicated by the door jam". The only time "over inflation" to this level would be an issue is if a tire is mount on the rear of an unloaded pickup truck. In this case, I've actually seen the tires wear down the center before wearing down the sides.

Tires inflated to sidewall are less likely to: Hydroplane, overheat, wear unevenly, wear down the sides and will protect the rims in the event you crash into a curb,

Inflating your tires (at least front tires) to sidewall will result in better handling in most cases and better mileage in all cases. It is true that when you inflate your tires the ride will be more rough and this is due to the fact that the tires can no longer deflect in response to road irregularities like they used to.

Look, anybody can go on google and post links to the general consumer inquires part of a manufacturer or go to the AAA website and listen to those suggestions. But while those suggestions are to put the liability squarely with the car manufacturer, it doesn't give consumers the opportunity to figure out how to safely inflate their tires to suit their own needs.

It's amusing to have a general consensus that one would like good tire wear yet when I tell them what I did to achieve such perfectly even tire wear, I get calls for me to be banned and that I'm an idiot for doing such a thing. I've read about people claiming that they get good tire wear, or even tire wear when they inflate to the car manufacturer's recommendation but I'm calling bullshit. I've never EVER seen a car wear PERFECTLY EVENLY when inflated to the door jam recommendation. I'm sure I'll hear a lot of dissenters to claim otherwise but maybe the reason why is because what I consider horribly uneven others would consider good or "perfectly even". One way to check to see if a tire is wearing evenly is to cup your hand around the top corner of the tire and rub around the tire to see if it feels smooth or jagged. This works most effectively when visual inspection isn't able to provide enough conclusive evidence.

I always made a point to show the downsides of inflating your tires to higher than the door jam recommends but each and every time I'm bombarded with posts by people repeating the same rhetoric whether it be them criticizing me because of things I can't control and aren't relevant like my age or them creating straw man arguments by claiming that I'm disrespecting people's opinions that not only haven't even been made but aren't even participating in the discussion.

Anyone can post a link to a site discrediting what I'm saying, but I find that in MY EXPERIENCE AND OBVIOUSLY THAT OF OTHERS that there is overwhelming empirical evidence to state to the contrary of those sites. While those sites may be correct when something bad happens, what they aren't correct about is predicting what and when something bad will happen.


So, for those who have bothered to even try inflating their tires to the number printed on the sidewall, please feel free to post what you've found different with your car, listing the positives and negatives.

The opinions of JulesMaximus, PhoKingGuy, and PlasmaBomb are not welcome at this time.

It's "door-jamb." I'm pretty sure I don't have a door-jamb label spec.

I've found that if I don't over-inflate beyond the sidewall spec, I get cupping. Outsides wear first.
Though I will say I'm running the maximum tire width for my wheel width.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Originally posted by: FeuerFrei

It's "door-jamb." I'm pretty sure I don't have a door-jamb label spec.

I've found that if I don't over-inflate beyond the sidewall spec, I get cupping. Outsides wear first.
Though I will say I'm running the maximum tire width for my wheel width.

If you're not running stock size tires then obviously you wouldn't go with what's recommended for the stock tired on the door-jamb but over-inflating beyond sidewall spec is still not good no matter what.
 

herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
8,522
1,131
126
Originally posted by: lxskllr

The Cherokee is virtually a 3/4 ton truck..

uh....no... can you haul 3000 lbs in your cherokee??

the cherokee we drove from michigan to nevada could barly make it up the mountians with a small u-haul. my f-350 work truck will haul 3000lbs up a grade your cherokee would roll backwards on.

anyway...

i run between 32 and 33 all the time. i check them about once a month to keep up with the temperature swings

 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
60,336
10,740
126
Originally posted by: herm0016
Originally posted by: lxskllr

The Cherokee is virtually a 3/4 ton truck..

uh....no... can you haul 3000 lbs in your cherokee??

the cherokee we drove from michigan to nevada could barly make it up the mountians with a small u-haul. my f-350 work truck will haul 3000lbs up a grade your cherokee would roll backwards on.

anyway...

i run between 32 and 33 all the time. i check them about once a month to keep up with the temperature swings

What ton are you using? Where I come from 1 ton=2,000#
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
73,101
34,399
136
I deflate my tires down to 20psi sometimes. I lived to tell about it. Some folks take them down to 15psi but I'm chicken, I don't want them to roll off the rims. I guess I could get beadlocks then 12psi here I come!
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,684
5,228
136
Originally posted by: fleabag


It's amusing to have a general consensus that one would like good tire wear yet when I tell them what I did to achieve such perfectly even tire wear, I get calls for me to be banned and that I'm an idiot for doing such a thing. I've read about people claiming that they get good tire wear, or even tire wear when they inflate to the car manufacturer's recommendation but I'm calling bullshit. I've never EVER seen a car wear PERFECTLY EVENLY when inflated to the door jam recommendation. I'm sure I'll hear a lot of dissenters to claim otherwise but maybe the reason why is because what I consider horribly uneven others would consider good or "perfectly even". One way to check to see if a tire is wearing evenly is to cup your hand around the top corner of the tire and rub around the tire to see if it feels smooth or jagged. This works most effectively when visual inspection isn't able to provide enough conclusive evidence.


[/b]The opinions of JulesMaximus, PhoKingGuy, and PlasmaBomb are not welcome at this time.


I reread your OP, fleabag, and found that section to be horribly incorrect, esp. the bolded part.

The only proper way to assess even tire wear across the tread is with a tread depth gauge. Pure and simple, it's the only way.

The way you're suggesting will do nothing to assess even tire wear but will, instead, point out when you have an improperly toed front end. Feathering of the tire's tread is an indication of improper toe-in. And if setting proper toe-in doesn't cure this, there is a problem with the mechanical components of the front end of the vehicle, most probably worn or deformed bushings in the front suspension, that allows the tow-in to change when the vehicle begins to move vs. being static or unmoving.


Nice try, but you're mixing tread depth measurement with the physical signs you see on a tire's treadwear of front end alignment and/or front end component wear/damage.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
2,450
126
Originally posted by: NoCreativity
Apparently Goodyearman agrees with Michelinman

How much air should I put in my tires?

Proper inflation is the single most important part of tire care. The inflation pressure on the side of the tire is the MAXIMUM operating pressure. It is not necessarily the right inflation for your vehicle. Always use the inflation recommended by the vehicle manufacturer. You can find it in your owner's manual, posted on the edge of the driver's door, on a door post or on the inside of the glovebox door. Always check inflation when tires are COLD: when the vehicle has been driven less than a mile or one hour or more after driving. Use a good quality tire gauge. Note: It's natural for radial tires to have a slight bulge in the sidewall at their proper inflation pressure. Check or adjust inflation every few weeks, before any long trip or if traveling with a heavy load. And don't forget to check the spare. Your Goodyear retailer can answer any questions you may have about tire inflation.


Bridgestoneman also agrees

Dunlopman too, with a decent description of why over inflation is bad

But I agree, anecdotal evidence >>>>>> decades of research and experience.

Yeah, but fleabag probably thinks that this is all a massive conspiracy between the tire manufacturers, auto manufacturers, and oil companies to get you to spend more money on gas and replacement tires. Hell... they probably had something to do with 9-11 and the Kennedy assassination as well :)
 

herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
8,522
1,131
126
Originally posted by: lxskllr
Originally posted by: herm0016
Originally posted by: lxskllr

The Cherokee is virtually a 3/4 ton truck..

uh....no... can you haul 3000 lbs in your cherokee??

the cherokee we drove from michigan to nevada could barly make it up the mountians with a small u-haul. my f-350 work truck will haul 3000lbs up a grade your cherokee would roll backwards on.

anyway...

i run between 32 and 33 all the time. i check them about once a month to keep up with the temperature swings

What ton are you using? Where I come from 1 ton=2,000#

the ton rating on a truck really does not have anything to do with payload anymore.

new style f350 3/4 ton pickup: 4400 payload / 11400 GVW

99 cherokee: 1600 payload ( est. by gvw - curb weight) / 4900 lbs gvw

i would have no problems putting your jeep in the bed of my truck and going up a mountian. ( if it fit)

 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,112
1
0
Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Originally posted by: NoCreativity
Apparently Goodyearman agrees with Michelinman

How much air should I put in my tires?

Proper inflation is the single most important part of tire care. The inflation pressure on the side of the tire is the MAXIMUM operating pressure. It is not necessarily the right inflation for your vehicle. Always use the inflation recommended by the vehicle manufacturer. You can find it in your owner's manual, posted on the edge of the driver's door, on a door post or on the inside of the glovebox door. Always check inflation when tires are COLD: when the vehicle has been driven less than a mile or one hour or more after driving. Use a good quality tire gauge. Note: It's natural for radial tires to have a slight bulge in the sidewall at their proper inflation pressure. Check or adjust inflation every few weeks, before any long trip or if traveling with a heavy load. And don't forget to check the spare. Your Goodyear retailer can answer any questions you may have about tire inflation.


Bridgestoneman also agrees

Dunlopman too, with a decent description of why over inflation is bad

But I agree, anecdotal evidence >>>>>> decades of research and experience.

Yeah, but fleabag probably thinks that this is all a massive conspiracy between the tire manufacturers, auto manufacturers, and oil companies to get you to spend more money on gas and replacement tires. Hell... they probably had something to do with 9-11 and the Kennedy assassination as well :)

So fleabag is really dmcowen674? :Q
 

railer

Golden Member
Apr 15, 2000
1,552
69
91
this has probably been mentioned 14 times already, but I don't do it because doing so causes your car to handle WORSE, and less safely.

I'm not that much of a cheapskate that I'm willing to sacrifice myself for a few pennies.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,082
136
BACK ON TOPIC:
My tires go up to a max of 51 PSI. (Grabber HTS in the 31 inch size, for my S-10).
Had some issues with them not handling or gripping like I hoped they would and took them back to the guys who mounted them for me. They suggested I try to keep them at 45 PSI for normal driving. I've been doing that and they handle very well now.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,518
223
106
I checked my cruiser and it's at 38psi (sidewall 51). Emergency vehicle with pursuit-rated tires.

Just sayin'.
 

fleabag

Banned
Oct 1, 2007
2,450
1
0
Good start with your mileage. I quit counting when I passed 1M miles a long time ago duing the late 1980's. I've slowed down lately as I've gotten older, but still average between 26K-35K each year....and probably passed 2M well before today.

And as for vehicles, I've owned over 50 so far in my life, including 3 VW Bugs, a 1969 442 W-30 Olds convert, a '69 Olds Cutlass convert, 2 1966 Plymouth Belvedere II's, a 1964 Plymouth Savoy, a 1974 Fiat X 1/9, a 1969 MGB, 1968 Rambler American, several station wagons during the 1970's-1980's including Ford LTDs and Chevy Impalas, several Chevy/GMC 1/2 ton pickups during the mid-1970's-1980's, 1974 Honda Civic, 1972 Chevy Nova and a 1966 Chevy Nova II, 1970 Mustang, 1975 Mustang II, 1968 Honda 350, 1974 BMW R75/5, 2002 Honda Nighthawk 750, 1995 Chevy Silverado, 1994 Ford Ranger, 1990 Plymouth Acclaim LX, 1991 Dodge Spirit ES, 1994 GMC Safari, 1996 Mitsubishi Galant, 1995 VW Golf, 1985 Chrysler LeBaron turbo convert, 1990 Pontiac Grand Am, 1986 Chevy Cavalier, 1974 Chevy Vega, 1976 Chevy Vega, 1973 Ford Pinto, 1977 Datsun B210, 1980 Nissan 280ZX, 1972 Plymouth Satellite, 1985 Pontiac Fiero, 1990 Chevy Blazer, 2002 Chevy Blazer, 1982 Ford Escort, 1986 Toyota Corolla, and a lot of others....but this is just off the top of my head. Most were "secondary" vehicles, some were primary vehicles....

Of course, for a decade centering on the mid-1970's through the mid-1980's, 50K per year would have been a nice decrease in mileage for me as I was driving the dog show circuit in the U.S. Crisscrossing the U.S. repeatedly during the year really adds up the mileage.

Then during the late '80's, I did extensive driving buying/selling/transporting exotic endangered birds....such as Sumatran and Indonesian pheasants. (Yes, I'm licensed to import/export buy/sell breed/raise endangered species, esp. birds.)

We've cut way back in driving, but still put 12K or more simply driving around to auctions or cruising to Atlanta. This in addition to the puttering around the house going shopping and going to work.

So impressive as you may try to sound with your "experience", remember when you start trying to flaunt things like that, there will always be someone with more, and sometimes you will get embarrassed by pounding your chest, crowing about how experienced or better you are than someone else, because there's always someone out there with more or better whatever than you can ever say you've done.

Oh, and on topic, I've tried overinflating beyond the door placard, esp. to increase gas mileage. And while that does work, it sure does wear out a set of tires faster in the center and does negatively impact handling. Been there, done that, gone back to going over the recommended pressures by only a few psi now. I will sacrifice a little ride for a little better mileage, but I do keep a close eye on tread wear with a tread gauge because hyperinflation of tires does cause premature wear in the center of the tire.

I think you've entirely missed his point and yes I do understand your point. Your point is that there is always someone with more experience, his point was that he has a lot of experience but since your point trounces his point, you therefore win, right? Wrong.
What you seem to be forgetting is that with his 1 million miles of experience, he has had favorable tread wear on his tires despite running near, at or above sidewall. With my comparatively limited experience I too have found it to be beneficial to have the tires inflated to sidewall ESPECIALLY on FWD vehicles or vehicles with very heavy engines. I don't know about YOUR driving habits but when I drive my vehicles and apparently when a lot of people drive their vehicles where I live, they take corners much faster than one would expect and when you have tires that are slightly under-inflated or inflated to manufacturer suggestions, you get wear on the sides. While I'm sure you could argue this is an alignment issue, I would have to disagree because if the solution to this problem is an increase in tire pressure, then that would suggest that for one's driving behaviors the tire psi they have their tires at just isn't sufficient.
I find it amusing that you people attack the idea of inflating tires to sidewall yet everyday you're more likely to find people driving on under-inflated tires than overinflated tires or tires inflated to sidewall.

Aren't you people able to agree that it's better to have people driving around on slightly over inflated tires which then become under-inflated over a longer period of time than to have people who only momentarily have their tires properly inflated and have their tires under-inflated for the rest of the time? You can call it what ever you want, but inflating your tires to sidewall while may lead to some undesirable characteristics, is certainly better than what people are currently doing whether you can agree about inflating to what the manufacturer says.


I reread your OP, fleabag, and found that section to be horribly incorrect, esp. the bolded part.

The only proper way to assess even tire wear across the tread is with a tread depth gauge. Pure and simple, it's the only way.

The way you're suggesting will do nothing to assess even tire wear but will, instead, point out when you have an improperly toed front end. Feathering of the tire's tread is an indication of improper toe-in. And if setting proper toe-in doesn't cure this, there is a problem with the mechanical components of the front end of the vehicle, most probably worn or deformed bushings in the front suspension, that allows the tow-in to change when the vehicle begins to move vs. being static or unmoving.


Nice try, but you're mixing tread depth measurement with the physical signs you see on a tire's treadwear of front end alignment and/or front end component wear/damage.
There is no point in doing that when you're looking at tires that are about to be replaced/are nearly bald. If the tire is at 1/32 or 1/64 and you can see tread evenly across the tire, then I can pretty much guarantee you that the tire is wearing evenly. Also why use a tire gauge when you can use a penny? If it shows the same amount across the thread, isn't that a good enough indication that the tires wear evenly for you??
 
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