"Let's not preorder games anymore..."

[Quantos]

Never pre-ordered, don't intend to start now. It's a very simply equation, really. The potential benefits of pre-ordering do not outweigh the potential issues. The benefits usually are quite minor, and you're just playing with fire as it's entirely possible the game is shit.

Hey you're a developer and want to get people to pre-order your game? It's easy. Throw in a useless bunch of items, and show only the good bits prior to release. Instant money.

It's the equivalent of purchasing a movie prior to release based solely on the teaser.

 

[Grooveriding]

I do it sometimes, not often though. I used to preorder Blizzard games, but they've gone to shit now : Diablo 3.

Once in a while there is a pre-order deal that is hard to pass up and I will jump on it. Just don't see the point in it most times though, why preorder ? So I can stare at the icon in Steam while I can't play the game. You don't even save squat in the long run. Crysis 3 is on sale via Origin right now for $39.99, it was just $59.99 and hasn't been out a month yet. This is true of almost all game releases. Save $5 now, or save $20 in a few weeks ?

Preorders are for the most part a scam. Sort of like DLC is the new way of chopping a game up and giving you the illusion of value when you get that cut-out DLC content via a sale or in a 'DLC pack' that offers a discount.

 

[Craig234]

On the one hand pre-ordering is generally a bad idea. What other industry has you pre-order? Do you pay a restaurant for a mean you'll eat in a month?

On the other hand, the price for games hasn't really gone up in 20 years, but the dev costs have gone up enormously. Competitive pricing pressures keep eroding prices.

Game makers need to sell some copies at a higher price to keep budgets up - otherwise just halve the budgets and there are no more really AAA games made.

Pre-orders help them sell some higher priced copies. Actually there's a pressure on them to offer more with pre-orders - exclusive content and bonuses.

If you pay 50% more for the game maybe you should get more.

 

[Regs]

True, but if done properly it will show off what the game is all about which is the whole point really. I've bought many games based off a good demo, but since they don't release demos anymore I typically wait until a game hits rock bottom prices to reduce the chance of buying a POS. I, for one, would buy games a lot sooner if they have a convincing demo, and I mean it must work on the console side, right? Why else would almost every game there have a demo available?

Demo's were always misleading.

 

[Aikouka]

Do you pay a restaurant for a mean you'll eat in a month?

Ahem

 

[Axon]

If Amazon offers me a $20 credit for a game I know I'm going to buy anyway or find worth $40, I'm pre-ordering it. Don't care what kind of bandwagon gamers are trying to create.

I agree with this position. The only reason I would pre-order is if I get something in return. Otherwise I am simply giving the company money without receiving a product in exchange. Pre-orders are crap. I can't remember the last game that sold out and that I legitimately couldn't get except Diablo 3 Collector's Edition. Game Stop has made it into a cash flow machine.

 

[BurnItDwn]

The only game I'm considering pre-ordering is X Rebirth... Otherwise, I gave up on pre-orders long ago when I first pre-ordered duke nukem 4ever (10+ years ago me thinks)

 

[SMOGZINN]

IMO, if publishers are afraid of releasing a demo because they think they'll lose sales, that game should go back to drawing board, period. The release now patch later mentality has gotten ridiculous nowadays and is why I stopped pre-ordering altogether.

I agree, and it is doing long term damage to the industry. Gamers have grown up, and the number of games available is making us more discerning buyers. If this trend continues I think there is going to be another crash of the video game market.

On the other hand, the price for games hasn't really gone up in 20 years, but the dev costs have gone up enormously. Competitive pricing pressures keep eroding prices.

Game makers need to sell some copies at a higher price to keep budgets up - otherwise just halve the budgets and there are no more really AAA games made.

While this might be true it is also true that at those prices the industry has went from a small cottage industry were 10k sales was considered a blockbuster to a industry where sales numbers can hit the millions.

So, while I understand that prices has not increased, it is ingenuous to try to claim that these prices are hurting the industry. The video game industry makes more money then any entertainment media other then movies, and if the trend continues it will overtake Hollywood in just a few years. Movies and video games cost similar amounts to make, but no one is paying $60 for The Expendables 2, and they are getting pretty close to having the same sales numbers.

 

[tHa ShIzNiT]

I dont generally preorder because I'm too cheap to buy games at release, but not preordering borderlands 2 was a huge mistake. I ended up buying it at a discounted price at release, which was the same as the preorder price...only the preorder came with lots of perks like a whole additional class to play. That additional class still hasnt gone on sale since that day (I think) and I would still have to pay 10 bucks to get it now, which I am too cheap to do! But I would really like to play it.

Borderlands 2 is a really well made game and I should have no qualms about supporting the developers in any way.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I dont generally preorder because I'm too cheap to buy games at release, but not preordering borderlands 2 was a huge mistake. I ended up buying it at a discounted price at release, which was the same as the preorder price...only the preorder came with lots of perks like a whole additional class to play. That additional class still hasnt gone on sale since that day (I think) and I would still have to pay 10 bucks to get it now, which I am too cheap to do! But I would really like to play it.

Borderlands 2 is a really well made game and I should have no qualms about supporting the developers in any way.

This argument still misses the point. While OK, if you were determined to get the game as soon as it came out anyway, then no amount of "this game sucks" would have stopped you and so getting any perks you feel were worth it are fine. OK, so the game was good, but that's beside the point. You aren't helping developers by pre-ordering. This is a misguided idea. Getting a great deal/perks on a game you are going to buy on day 1 is one thing, $5 off a crap game and an extra weapon here or there are not "worth it". There is a shift now though (as seen with the Bioshock pre-sales) that seems to be coming from the competing sales places (just like the stores would do). These sales are there to promote the stores, not the devs. While Borderlands 2 may have been a good game in your mind, there are far more crappy/mediocre games coming out.

Again - PRE-ORDERING IS NOT SUPPORTING DEVS. This is not Kickstarter we are talking about.

 

[Rudee]

Lonbjerg told me to not pre-order ARMA 3. Because the engine is terrible. As difficult as it was to accept, i've decided to not pre-order.

You're missing out dude. ARMA3 Alpha is a blast right now. New mods, missions and scripts coming out every day. I have zero regrets purchasing the Alpha. Zero!

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

This argument still misses the point. While OK, if you were determined to get the game as soon as it came out anyway, then no amount of "this game sucks" would have stopped you and so getting any perks you feel were worth it are fine. OK, so the game was good, but that's beside the point. You aren't helping developers by pre-ordering. This is a misguided idea. Getting a great deal/perks on a game you are going to buy on day 1 is one thing, $5 off a crap game and an extra weapon here or there are not "worth it". There is a shift now though (as seen with the Bioshock pre-sales) that seems to be coming from the competing sales places (just like the stores would do). These sales are there to promote the stores, not the devs. While Borderlands 2 may have been a good game in your mind, there are far more crappy/mediocre games coming out.

Again - PRE-ORDERING IS NOT SUPPORTING DEVS. This is not Kickstarter we are talking about.

Aren't pre-orders used as an important metric in how many marketing dollars any particular game receives, thus it's sales, meaning it is supporting the devs?

 

[mindcycle]

Again - PRE-ORDERING IS NOT SUPPORTING DEVS. This is not Kickstarter we are talking about.

Yes, this is absolutely true. I think this is a common misconception being made by many in this thread. Pre-ordering isn't showing support for the developers, it's supporting the publisher and their attempts to sell you a game that isn't available yet. They do this by dangling cut out content (DLC) or offering other "bonuses" so they can have guaranteed sales on their books before the game even hits retail.

If you don't believe in day one DLC or being a beta tester for shitty unoptimized console ports, stop supporting this model.

 

[mindcycle]

Aren't pre-orders used as an important metric in how many marketing dollars any particular game receives, thus it's sales, meaning it is supporting the devs?

If it is, it shouldn't be. And no, that's still not supporting the dev's, that supporting a shitty business model put in place by the publisher.

 

[blackened23]

If it is, it shouldn't be. And no, that's still not supporting the dev's, that supporting a shitty business model put in place by the publisher.

Aren't you a self admitted pirate? Of course you feel that way. You just pirate games anyway. Even though, game reviews are out the day of game release making any argument you make about quality null and void - read a review from thousands of other people and make your judgement. But you? No you just pirate it anyway. You will find a hundred excuses about demos, big evil publishers, blah blah blah blah and how EA's president punched your sister. Blah blah blah blah. You're about as bad as some random 13 year old teen "fighting the system". Until you realize how petulant and silly that is.

Anyway, Make no mistake, when a publisher does well, the developer does well. It's a two way street. The publisher provides the developer with the funds to develop the game, and they get paid more if it does well. Developers are free to be independent as well. But as you've seen AAA titles are never independent, for a reason. Big budgets can't be done independently.

Don't like it? Vote with your wallet. Oh wait it's you i'm talking to. You would just pirate it anyway. And then you wonder why publishers implement DRM...it's a never ending cycle. Whatever you say.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I'm sure they get used in some metric yes, however since Steam doesn't release sales numbers, how would that work as a comparison? These pre-orders you see these days on digital downloads are simply a way to draw people to the digital distributor. Right now they are all fighting for a piece of the online pie. They are the ones telling publishers to give more pre-order perks, sometimes being exclusive to certain stores.

It really is no different in practice than what preorders have done all along, but the the big and major difference is that there is no possibility of a shortage of product on release day which was the major reason to preorder.

(and before anyone says it again, this does not include collectors edition stuff).

 

[ImpulsE69]

Aren't you a self admitted pirate? Of course you feel that way. You just pirate games anyway. Even though, game reviews are out the day of game release making any argument you make about quality null and void - read a review from thousands of other people and make your judgement. But you? No you just pirate it anyway. You will find a hundred excuses about demos, big evil publishers, blah blah blah blah and how EA's president punched your sister. Blah blah blah blah. You're about as bad as some random 13 year old teen "fighting the system". Until you realize how petulant and silly that is.

Anyway, Make no mistake, when a publisher does well, the developer does well. It's a two way street. The publisher provides the developer with the funds to develop the game, and they get paid more if it does well. Developers are free to be independent as well. But as you've seen AAA titles are never independent, for a reason. Big budgets can't be done independently.

Don't like it? Vote with your wallet. Oh wait it's you i'm talking to. You would just pirate it anyway. And then you wonder why publishers implement DRM...it's a never ending cycle. Whatever you say.

You're still glossing over the fact that preorders in no way help anyone but the storefront selling them. That money doesn't get given to anyone before the game is released. No shortage? No need for preorders. They phased out the need with digital downloads. Storefronts are looking for ways to draw in customers, thus the continuation of "pre-orders".

 

[mindcycle]

Aren't you a self admitted pirate? Of course you feel that way. You just pirate games anyway. Even though, game reviews are out the day of game release making any argument you make about quality null and void - read a review from thousands of other people and make your judgement. But you? No you just pirate it anyway. You will find a hundred excuses about demos, big evil publishers, blah blah blah blah and how EA's president punched your sister. Blah blah blah blah. You're about as bad as some random 13 year old teen "fighting the system". Until you realize how petulant and silly that is.

Anyway, Make no mistake, when a publisher does well, the developer does well. It's a two way street. The publisher provides the developer with the funds to develop the game, and they get paid more if it does well. Developers are free to be independent as well. But as you've seen AAA titles are never independent, for a reason. Big budgets can't be done independently.

Don't like it? Vote with your wallet. Oh wait it's you i'm talking to. You would just pirate it anyway. And then you wonder why publishers implement DRM...it's a never ending cycle. Whatever you say.

lol, what leads you to believe i'm a self admitted pirate? Not pre-ordering games or supporting that business model now means you're automatically a pirate? And I thought i've heard everything..

 

[ImpulsE69]

He should work for EA.

"No one pre-ordered our game. Pirates."

 

[BrightCandle]

I went through a period of preordering games I wanted and many of them turn out to have serious launch bugs. But what really annoys is that the launch day reviews regularly dont tell you about the problems. They will have played the game in a carefully controlled way on limited hardware
I think sometimes they take the devs/publishers word that the bugs they do encounter and report will be fixed by launch. Its the only way I can see people positively reviewing games that are clearly quite broken on release day.

Sim city followed this model, early reviews were really high, later ones hit DRM and multiple severe game play bugs. The reviewers are helping to make the current situation worse with the kickbacks they are clearly getting to not print details of the problems.

So yes we should stop preordering, we should also pay no attention to the paid advertising that passes as a review these days that we see on day 1 of launch. Give it a week and the real reviews come out from people who have actually played it enough to work out how its broken and in what ways. Preordering and day 1 purchases just incentivise the publisher to release something buggy.

 

[mindcycle]

He should work for EA.

"No one pre-ordered our game. Pirates."

Haha, yep.

 

[SMOGZINN]

I went through a period of preordering games I wanted and many of them turn out to have serious launch bugs. But what really annoys is that the launch day reviews regularly dont tell you about the problems. They will have played the game in a carefully controlled way on limited hardware
I think sometimes they take the devs/publishers word that the bugs they do encounter and report will be fixed by launch. Its the only way I can see people positively reviewing games that are clearly quite broken on release day.

What is actually happening here is that if reviewers ever want to get a copy of the game in time to have a review of it up on launch day they had better only write nice things about the game.

Write a bad review of a game, and the next game you review you will have bought retail and you will miss all the revenue generated by having a review of the game up on day 1. It is the dirty little secrete of the game review industry.

EDIT: Oh, yeah. If you want to have a review of a game out before launch day, you have to actually send your review to the publisher for approval before you can publish it because of the NDA you signed.

 

[Craig234]

While this might be true it is also true that at those prices the industry has went from a small cottage industry were 10k sales was considered a blockbuster to a industry where sales numbers can hit the millions.

So, while I understand that prices has not increased, it is ingenuous to try to claim that these prices are hurting the industry. The video game industry makes more money then any entertainment media other then movies, and if the trend continues it will overtake Hollywood in just a few years. Movies and video games cost similar amounts to make, but no one is paying $60 for The Expendables 2, and they are getting pretty close to having the same sales numbers.

Whoa, back off your 'disingenuous' comment. That implies deceiving and that's certainly not the case.

I don't have all the numbers to weigh this, but there are also a lot more games today. Not every game sales millions.

Now, I just checked a source on sales, and it listed the top 14 selling PC games; 4 of them are from the 1990's, only three since 2011 (Diablo III, Minecraft, Starcraft II).

Myst sold 6 million copies, for example.

So I don't think you began to completely address the issue - the industry has grown, but prices have fallen while dev costs hav increased, though sales seem up also.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

minecraft is a great PC gaming success story

 

[skipsneeky2]

First and last game i preordered was BF3,got the $60 retail copy from Bestbuy at midnight release,months go by and out comes premium which now we early buyers have to pay to have,while someone now can pay the same $60 you did and get the whole game with premium included.....

I feel the early adopters who did preorder should at least get premium at no charge,discount the current vanilla game to $40 and call it a day.