Let there be light

[Pray To Jesus]

Do humans have free will? I think not if you believe God is all knowing, past, present and future. So, since God knows what you're going to do in every moment of your life, isn't your life sort of preordained/predetermined? So you only have the illusion of free will---God's already got your whole life mapped out and knows from before your birth whether you go to heaven or hell. So while you may think you have free will, you have none in reality.

Since you asked a bajillion questions at once and I'm tired, I will answer this one first.

Yes, humans have free will. The most fundamental choice is that we can choose to love God or not. I'm taking the Christian view point here since I know that to be the truth. When we make that choice, to us, it is our free will that chooses. Just because God knows the choice we are going to make doesn't make it different from our viewpoint. God can easily force us all love him completely with a single thought, however He chooses not to do so because of his love for us.

Just because God knows what we are going to do, doesn't mean that to us, it's any different. We are still making choices daily without knowledge of the future.

Your question boils down to a confusion about perspective. Similar to how the speed of light is always constant for the observer.

If from our human perspective we perceive that we have free will and everything in this universe points towards us having it, then we do have it. The illusion is the reality from our perspective and thus we can be said to truly have free will.

 

[soulcougher73]

im too stupid to answer

FTFY

 

[sdifox]

Damn, so it wasn't the burning cross? Or maybe I'm just confusing my lights. Maybe it was LED's.

Unless you are in Alabama...:whiste:

 

[sdifox]

God don't hate gays the person, but he does hate the sin.

God does not hate!

 

[Atomic Playboy]

too long to read

And yet still much shorter than the Bible.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

God does not hate!

God doesn't hate as long as you do exactly what he wants you to do. As told to you by men. Who have never been tempted by power or control.

 

[CPA]

No, the sun forgot to spin around the earth, again! Isn't that what the Holy Roman/Catholic Church taught and reinforced for centuries and persecuted/killed those who dared to put anything other than the earth at the center of the universe?

Oh, please, you know what I meant.

 

[destrekor]

Since you asked a bajillion questions at once and I'm tired, I will answer this one first.

Yes, humans have free will. The most fundamental choice is that we can choose to love God or not. I'm taking the Christian view point here since I know that to be the truth. When we make that choice, to us, it is our free will that chooses. Just because God knows the choice we are going to make doesn't make it different from our viewpoint. God can easily force us all love him completely with a single thought, however He chooses not to do so because of his love for us.

Just because God knows what we are going to do, doesn't mean that to us, it's any different. We are still making choices daily without knowledge of the future.

Your question boils down to a confusion about perspective. Similar to how the speed of light is always constant for the observer.

If from our human perspective we perceive that we have free will and everything in this universe points towards us having it, then we do have it. The illusion is the reality from our perspective and thus we can be said to truly have free will.

So... this god fella knows what all of our choices will be, knows that our choices will "force his hand" and he'll send us to hell for them, and does nothing about it but rather let us continue to choose what we will throughout life?

Perspective doesn't change a damn thing, save for semantics. Sure, we get to make all the choices we wish, but he knows when and where and ultimately knows all of our choices/decisions. Thus, he knows from the moment of our birth that we are destined for heaven or hell.

He's such a swell guy, that god fella.

 

[BudAshes]

Yes, humans have free will. The most fundamental choice is that we can choose to love God or not. I'm taking the Christian view point here since I know that to be the truth. When we make that choice, to us, it is our free will that chooses. Just because God knows the choice we are going to make doesn't make it different from our viewpoint. God can easily force us all love him completely with a single thought, however He chooses not to do so because of his love for us.

So God has thoughts. What would a God think about if He knows everything?

 

[sdifox]

God doesn't hate as long as you do exactly what he wants you to do. As told to you by men. Who have never been tempted by power or control.

And you are sinning the moment you were born.

 

[Pray or Die]

A lot of people in this thread will be burning in hell I see.

 

[destrekor]

So God has thoughts. What would a God think about if He knows everything?

God thinks you shouldn't question his ability to think.

:biggrin:

 

[destrekor]

A lot of people in this thread will be burning in hell I see.

:awe:

Fess up, you!

 

[Atomic Playboy]

is the username 'Pray or Die' taken?

A lot of people in this thread will be burning in hell I see.

Hmmmm....

 

[momeNt]

There is no such thing as free will. Our will is bound to the chemical reactions of our brains response to external stimuli. We think we have free will because humans, even atheists, believes there is some sort of magic to our minds and thoughts, that is not true. If one were to discover the equation to each persons brains and how it interprets stimuli, you could easily predict the future of events.

Not sure why the concept of free will is always brought into the discussion as some sort of "gotcha" proof that god doesn't exist or can't be all knowing if we have free will. The fact is we don't have free will, so that proof fails.

 

[Mixolydian]

Talking about the creation of light itself.

Well first there was fire -> gas lamps -> incandescent lamp -> fluorescent lamp -> HID lamp. Now we have LED, Induction, etc.

 

[BudAshes]

There is no such thing as free will. Our will is bound to the chemical reactions of our brains response to external stimuli. We think we have free will because humans, even atheists, believes there is some sort of magic to our minds and thoughts, that is not true. If one were to discover the equation to each persons brains and how it interprets stimuli, you could easily predict the future of events.

Not sure why the concept of free will is always brought into the discussion as some sort of "gotcha" proof that god doesn't exist or can't be all knowing if we have free will. The fact is we don't have free will, so that proof fails.

Every Christian ever talks about free will. Try talking to one.

 

[momeNt]

Every Christian ever talks about free will. Try talking to one.

You are trying to prove their faith is false because their basic assumption of free will is false. That doesn't disprove god, it just proves they don't understand that free will doesn't exist.

 

[Pray or Die]

Don't bring this atheist garbage into this thread. Chemicals have nothing to do with it. The spirit of Jesus lives in all of us. We have control over our will not some made up chemicals.

There is no such thing as free will. Our will is bound to the chemical reactions of our brains response to external stimuli. We think we have free will because humans, even atheists, believes there is some sort of magic to our minds and thoughts, that is not true. If one were to discover the equation to each persons brains and how it interprets stimuli, you could easily predict the future of events.

Not sure why the concept of free will is always brought into the discussion as some sort of "gotcha" proof that god doesn't exist or can't be all knowing if we have free will. The fact is we don't have free will, so that proof fails.

 

[BudAshes]

You are trying to prove their faith is false because their basic assumption of free will is false. That doesn't disprove god, it just proves they don't understand that free will doesn't exist.

I can't disprove anyone's faith, I can only disprove what they say about their faith. Until something has been put into context there is no way to prove anything.

 

[momeNt]

Don't bring this atheist garbage into this thread. Chemicals have nothing to do with it. The spirit of Jesus lives in all of us. We have control over our will not some made up chemicals.

It's not atheist garbage, it's intelligent design. Why does proving we have no free will means a creator doesn't exist exactly? Why does even a perfect understanding of all the universe preclude a creator from existing? Maybe the creator spawned from LITERALLY nothing, and split nothing into matter and anti-matter, then returned to nothingness because once they did that, the rest can all be known and there was no reason for their existence.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Freewill does exist. Right now, I can decide to go do something. Whether that's some kind of chemical reaction going on that causes me to want to go do that something is irrelevant. On the surface, I decided myself to go do that something. Speaking of going to do something, I think I'm going to go eat some pizza. I can confirm however that this decision has been predetermined for a while.

 

[Brigandier]

There is no such thing as free will. Our will is bound to the chemical reactions of our brains response to external stimuli. We think we have free will because humans, even atheists, believes there is some sort of magic to our minds and thoughts, that is not true. If one were to discover the equation to each persons brains and how it interprets stimuli, you could easily predict the future of events.

Not sure why the concept of free will is always brought into the discussion as some sort of "gotcha" proof that god doesn't exist or can't be all knowing if we have free will. The fact is we don't have free will, so that proof fails.

You're full of shit.

 

[momeNt]

Freewill does exist. Right now, I can decide to go do something. Whether that's some kind of chemical reaction going on that causes me to want to go do that something is irrelevant. On the surface, I decided myself to go do that something. Speaking of going to do something, I think I'm going to go eat some pizza. I can confirm however that this decision has been predetermined for a while.

If we were able to map all the possible external stimuli and your brain and body chemistry, we would be able to know exactly what you think and what you actually do.

But yes, removing a layer of understanding usually allows you to believe something that is wrong

 

[momeNt]

You're full of shit.

Atheist or a religious person clutching to the notion that you actions are somehow made up of inexplicable magical thoughts?