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Less than 10 thousand fermi cards delivered,Nvidia stock falls.

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tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
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too true, but is you look at their current product offerings they are diminishing. With the loss of the chipset business, low volume of fermi, and low adoption of tegra where do you see the revenue coming from to cover the r&d for future products?
Ion, future tegra wins, future GPU's, business space for GPGPU, future consoles, future handhelds, future cloud computing, possible arm cpu + gpu fusion, future cell phones, future 3D televisions... I think nvidia will be just fine. A year ago everyone was scared shitless about AMD going completely bankrupt, and now they're turning a profit.

On a side note, a buddy of mine got a 2004 Golden Tee Machine. It wasn't working, so as we were taking it apart trying to find out what was wrong, I saw it had a 3dfx video card. Nothing like recycling years old hardware. Ha!
 
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Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
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I read the article elsewhere this morning and though "I should head ever to anand and see how Ben is spinning the hell out of this one." Sure enough, 4th post...
He didn't really give it any pro-NV spin, just anti-Charlie spin.

Not sure how anyone could give this positive spin with regard to NV.
 

yh125d

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2006
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NV isn't dying any time soon, no matter what charlie says. So fermi is meh, big deal. They'll learn their lesson and recover.
 

waffleironhead

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
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Ion, future tegra wins, future GPU's, business space for GPGPU, future consoles, future handhelds, future cloud computing, possible arm cpu + gpu fusion, future cell phones, future 3D televisions... I think nvidia will be just fine. A year ago everyone was scared shitless about AMD going completely bankrupt, and now they're turning a profit.

On a side note, a buddy of mine got a 2004 Golden Tee Machine. It wasn't working, so as we were taking it apart trying to find out what was wrong, I saw it had a 3dfx video card. Nothing like recycling years old hardware. Ha!
So they are going to pay for the future products r&d with future products? huh? What I am questioning is what they are selling today that is going to fund the future.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
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So they are going to pay for the future products r&d with future products? huh? What I am questioning is what they are selling today that is going to fund the future.
If they dont make enough from their current lineup they can dip in their large reserve of cash.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
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So they are going to pay for the future products r&d with future products? huh? What I am questioning is what they are selling today that is going to fund the future.
Whatever they are selling they are doing just fine. Profit,profit ,profit just about every quarter.

They own the professional market, and thats where the profit is.
 

tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
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So they are going to pay for the future products r&d with future products? huh? What I am questioning is what they are selling today that is going to fund the future.
Did you not read my entire post and draw some natural, parallel conclusions? Before Phenom II came out, AMD had very little/nothing competitive in the CPU space above $100. Even their cheaper CPU's were easily matched by Intel's competitively priced ones. At the same time, AMD had nothing competitive in the GPU front during most of the nvidia 8800 series run. They had been bleeding massive amounts of cash quarter after quarter, and continued to do so until late last year. It didn't happen over night, but now AMD is doing pretty damn good both with products and finances.

Nvidia is currently not in nearly as bad of a position financially as AMD was during their dearth of poorly competitive products.
 

DanielNenni

Banned
Mar 27, 2010
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Charlie Demrijan is one of the few people (related to hardware news) who goes out on a limb, making himself a pretty good target if he fails. But it seems, for your average reader/forumvisitor, that he is more right with his often way-too-early conclusions, than he is wrong.

The world of hardware news would be a boring place without the likes of Charlie in it to spice things up. nVidia fans are hardware fans aswell, they appreciate it in their own way :)

Personally I think his articles are a great read. Mostly because of the humor. Just look at his article..lol
Charlie even has a website dedicated to him:

http://charliedemerjianisadouchebag.blogspot.com/

Charlie must have really pissed this guy off!
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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He didn't really give it any pro-NV spin, just anti-Charlie spin.

Not sure how anyone could give this positive spin with regard to NV.
Well, when AMD shipped more than 2,000,000 Radeon 5xxx cards between 9/23 and 1/11 he said it was 'shocking how badly' AMD's PC GPU division is doing.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=29190993&postcount=49

When Nvidia is coming up on a month since their Fermi 'launch' and is knocking on the door of 10,000 units shipped, it's about Charlie.
 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
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Well, when AMD shipped more than 2,000,000 Radeon 5xxx cards between 9/23 and 1/11 he said it was 'shocking how badly' AMD's PC GPU division is doing.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=29190993&postcount=49

When Nvidia is coming up on a month since their Fermi 'launch' and is knocking on the door of 10,000 units shipped, it's about Charlie.
To put these numbers in perspective, ATi sold about 300K more GPUs in consoles on Black Friday in the US then they have shipped for total DX11 parts. One day, one territory.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=29063534&postcount=45

He seems to like talking about how ATI have graphics chips in the two most popular games consoles.

Oh, and for comparison, ATI sold 23,000 HD58xx cards every week for the first 13 weeks of availability (on average).
 
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BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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I read the article elsewhere this morning and though "I should head ever to anand and see how Ben is spinning the hell out of this one."
There is nothing to spin, I just pointed out the yields Charlie was talking about are way off. I haven't ever commented on concrete numbers of produced parts, not for ATi or nV, until after we get some actual numbers.

Well, when AMD shipped more than 2,000,000 Radeon 5xxx cards between 9/23 and 1/11 he said it was 'shocking how badly' AMD's PC GPU division is doing.
And why do you think that statement doesn't hold? This isn't about spinning it for one company or the other. nV launched a product with very low availability. Last reported quarter, without this new part available, they posted a $400Million gross profit. That is without a high end part to compete with ATi at all. With no competition at any price point over ~$120 ATi was outsold by a 2:1 margin in the last reported quarter. That is shockingly bad. That isn't so much a bash on ATi as it is on the broader market, how can a company be outsold 2:1 in dollar volume when they have no competition at any of the moderate or higher price points?

When Nvidia is coming up on a month since their Fermi 'launch' and is knocking on the door of 10,000 units shipped, it's about Charlie.
It was about Charlie being off by roughly an order of magnitude on his reported yields. That isn't splitting hairs, he wasn't even close. According to this report nVidia is having a yield situation that isn't a staggering amount off from where ATi was with yields at a comparable point in their life cycle. nV is certainly lower, but within a reasonable amount given the differing die sizes. That isn't spin, ATi was ~40% with nV in the 20%-30% range. This isn't a catastrophic event by any means, and it isn't going to have a significant impact on nV's bottom line despite what Charlie may think(the lack of a part in the mid range to compete with the 5750/5770 is a much larger concern to nV in terms of their bottom line then their halo parts). If ATi had incredibly bad luck for a bit and could produce close no 5850/5870/5970s it would have minimal effect on their overall operating budget(it would have an impact, but it wouldn't be huge).

There is the enthusiast end of the market and the bread and butter of the business end. From a business perspective, having low volume on their higher end parts isn't that big of an issue- if anyone doubts that simply look to the two quarters when ATi dominated that segment without question and still was underperforming nV by a very large amount on the financials. If nV can't ship the mid tier offerings to compete with ATi and ATi starts getting a large quantity of design wins from OEMs prior to nV having anything to compete with it will be a much larger issue for nV on a financial basis. As of right now, it is very surprising this hasn't already happened as ATi has had a clearly dominant part in the mid tier segments from an OEM perspective for quite some time.
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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So for DX11 Hardware:
Ati sells > 6,000,000
Nv sells > 10,000

Wut? Doesn't sound right.
ATi is probably closer to 7-8Million by this point, but other then that it looks about right.
 

Cookie Monster

Diamond Member
May 7, 2005
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Well the 6 million figure isnt surprising since AMD has their mid/low range DX11 parts out for awhile now. The 10000 figure for nVIDIA is made purely of GTX480/470 parts, whereas for AMD you got the entire evergreen family.
 

blanketyblank

Golden Member
Jan 23, 2007
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More importantly rather than Charlie was right, doesn't this show a lot of people were wrong? I recall reading Fermi was supposed to have 2-3 times the number of cards ATI had at launch, but if only 10k have been delivered that site's info was really wrong. I'm thinking it was FUD, but I could be wrong.
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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I recall reading Fermi was supposed to have 2-3 times the number of cards ATI had at launch, but if only 10k have been delivered that site's info was really wrong. I'm thinking it was FUD, but I could be wrong.
How many exactly did ATi have at launch and how many did nV sell prior to the report being made. If you look at the report it states that nV still had 10K units. I'm not saying anyone was right or wrong on that particular part, just pointing out that sites could have been right with this report also being accurate(not saying that is the case, just simply based on the wording both could be).
 

Will Robinson

Golden Member
Dec 19, 2009
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Sorry Ben but you have no idea what "order of magnitude" means even tho you include it in most of your spin.
NV screwed the pooch with Fermi and Charlie called it pretty much correctly.
GTX 480 was a paper launch and still is missing in action at New Egg.:whiste:
 

novasatori

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2003
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Sorry Ben but you have no idea what "order of magnitude" means even tho you include it in most of your spin.
NV screwed the pooch with Fermi and Charlie called it pretty much correctly.
GTX 480 was a paper launch and still is missing in action at New Egg.:whiste:
2% vs 20%

Pretty sure he knows what it means, maybe you don't?
 

ronnn

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
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The real story is that yields are bad and the near future looks painful for nvidia. Charlie is just the Madonna of computer geek gossip sites.
 

postmortemIA

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2006
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nvidia still has almost twice market share as ATi, don't forget that apple is using nvidia exclusively and Ati isn't too popular in laptops.

ATi hasn't exactly capitalized on nvidia problems because stuff that sells is mid-range.
 

Tsavo

Platinum Member
Sep 29, 2009
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Nvidia will be around for as long as they can find new product names for the G92.
 

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