League of Legends - F2P MOBA (like DOTA) part 2

[Firsttime]

Yeah, his initial clear is really slow apparently. He always has got raped by the first buff. Making it stronger and getting rid of pulls has apparently really hurt him. His clear is something like top 25 but not much faster then that. His ganks are obviously still godlike.

Apparently Shyv, Mundo and Udyr are still the best clearers, but I've heard things about certain odd jungles doing well in the new jungle too. Zed beasts it I've heard and Malz clears it really quickly.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Hrmm, even with his life steal ability? Strange. Guess they are doing it wrong then.

His lifesteal isn't THAT strong. Especially at low levels. It's been a pretty universal consensus that his Jungle is hurt ALOT by the new changes.

 

[Chiropteran]

Also, his damage output is pretty low comparatively speaking to other junglers. Especially pre-6. He's great on sustained damage and staying alive, but his damage output is not all that high. Shaco and Lee Sin have ridiculous damage output along with gap closers and disables (multiples in the case of shaco if the box hits them along with 2 shyv poison) to make ganks quite effective early level.

I hear what you are saying, and have heard it elsewhere, but in my specific case Warwick seems to be my best choice. For one, I don't play lee sin. Tried him a few times when he was new, but I just can't "get" him, I just don't use the abilities right or something. As far as shaco, I think I have the basics down, when I play with low elo friends I can pick shaco and pub stomp, but in a serious game at my elo or above I feel like my shaco play is easily shut down.

To me, it feels like shaco may gank slightly better but he depends on those ganks, while warwick is less likely to pull off a lot of early ganks he can do fine without any extra gank gold, as he functions better with fewer items- at least as I play him.

It may also just be that I'm a terrible shaco player, but where does that leave me? If I can jungle more effectively as warwick I'll play him, the fact that he is considered a weaker jungle overall isn't really important if he is the strongest jungler I can actually play at 100%.

 

[krnmastersgt]

He'll be better, but I think Lee sin is going to wear the crown in the new jungle. High DPS single target damage, high dps AOE, gap closer, disable, CC, fast, AND is safe. He is pretty much going to be the paramount best jungler I think with the new jungle and items. Mark my word, he's going to be banned or played because of it again.

He's always been one of the best possible junglers since he launched, only reason I don't say the best all the time is that the role of the junglers changed around quite a bit since he was launched. He's always been able to clear his own jungle fairly quickly, start red and gank, aggressively counter-jungle or hunt down the enemy jungler, etc. The meta has changed around a bit though and why he's not in more games, while his ganking is still pretty powerful people prefer sustained cc like Skarner or much stronger and guaranteed initial cc like Maokai.

As for the new jungle, I suspect he should still be among the top tier even if he's more damaged by the initial runs. But the significant damage increase/hp of the jungle creep will probably only allow extremely high sustain champs to be able to gank after an initial clear without basing, such as Fiddle and WW. I don't think it will be totally unreasonable for blue side to have the ADC and support shove out around 2:50~3:15 depending on the jungler's path, so that they can back off and help the jungler take his red buff .

I hear what you are saying, and have heard it elsewhere, but in my specific case Warwick seems to be my best choice. For one, I don't play lee sin. Tried him a few times when he was new, but I just can't "get" him, I just don't use the abilities right or something. As far as shaco, I think I have the basics down, when I play with low elo friends I can pick shaco and pub stomp, but in a serious game at my elo or above I feel like my shaco play is easily shut down.

To me, it feels like shaco may gank slightly better but he depends on those ganks, while warwick is less likely to pull off a lot of early ganks he can do fine without any extra gank gold, as he functions better with fewer items- at least as I play him.

It may also just be that I'm a terrible shaco player, but where does that leave me? If I can jungle more effectively as warwick I'll play him, the fact that he is considered a weaker jungle overall isn't really important if he is the strongest jungler I can actually play at 100%.

Warwick has never been a bad jungler, just over time we were given many more champs and with the S2 jungle his is among the slowest of the champions that could be classified as "junglers". He's still one of THE paramount junglers in terms of overall statistics and ability set to sustain in the jungle, his issue is that because he has no AoE clear and his 1v1 damage is lower than some of the other champs you commonly see in the jungle, he's been deemed as too slow for most. But if your team does not require significant jungle/gank presence before you're 6, he's still got insanely powerful gank potential. While Skarner's ult is typically considered better than Warwick's, Warwick's ult has a significantly lower cooldown and actually does a decent chunk of damage too. Warwick is still strong, he's just got crap gank potential till he's cleared out his jungle about 3 times or covered some solo lanes for the xp.

 

[Phobo]

I think shaco is one of the best ! well for random ques anyway, i can usually 4 box rush 1 buff without smite run across the river and decieve over the ledge to smite steal the other one by then im close to level 3 and the first creep wave is barely in lane

 

[ImpulsE69]

It's official, they need to allow reporting in char select. It just amazes me how retarded a majority of the playerbase is in this game. Tired of either having to dodge or wait thru 40-50 minute game of trolling to report which does me no good except piss me off more.

 

[Fenixgoon]

oh my god...i am loving support lux.

 

[zebano]

Regarding new jungle Stonewall is reporting that Olaf is just beasting it.

 

[zebano]

oh my god...i am loving support lux.

You luxing support?

Have you tried Zyra support yet?

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Regarding new jungle Stonewall is reporting that Olaf is just beasting it.

Love me some Olaf. Good thing to hear.

 

[Chiropteran]

Been playing a lot of DOTA2 while waiting for the Season 3 patch to come out for LoL. I think I noticed one aspect of DOTA that to me, makes it a superior game.

In LoL, the higher tier items add more stats per gold than the lower tier.

For example, longsword costs 41.5 gold per damage, a pickaxe is 39 gold per damage, while a BF sword costs 36.7 gold per damage- the higher tier item is more efficient.

In DOTA, the opposite is generally true, at the low to mid end anyway.

Example, blades of attack (450g) costs 50 gold per damage, a broadsword(1200g) costs 66.6 gold per damage, a claymore (1400g) costs 58.3 gold per damage, mithril hammer costs 66.6 gold per damage.

Even more extreme, iron branch 53g for +1 to each stat, circlet is 185 for +2 to each stat, ultimate orb is 2100g for +10 to each stat, the higher tier item costs approximately 4X as much per stat point for the bonus of being in a single item slot and item build potential.

Okay enough data, what is the point? LoL actually snowballs much harder than DOTA does, at least as far as items and gold is concerned. As you gain more gold through farm and kills, your damage or other stats increases exponentially in LoL, because not only do you have more money to spend on items, you can buy the more expensive items which are simply more stats per gold than the cheap items.

In DOTA, the opposite is true. As you start to farm up lots of gold and rack up kills, you need to choose- either you buy the less efficient expensive single items to combine later, or you can buy stat/gold efficient items which fill your item slots quickly and must be sold later if you ever want to improve.

I find this aspect of the game makes coming back from a bad start much much easier than the equivalent in LoL. If I have a terrible early game in DOTA I can compensate by stacking cheap efficient items, which gives me similar or sometimes even superior stats over my opponents who use their gold to buy singular powerful items. When (or if) I can turn the game around I pay a small penalty when I have to resell those items.

In LoL the only thing that comes close to this is the doran's items, but even then comparing them to simple 1500g+ combine items in LoL the doran items just don't hold up very well. If you get behind early, you really don't have much chance at all of getting back to an even footing as far as stats.



Anyway, back to your usual LoL posting, just felt like sharing something I noticed.

All that said, I am very excited about the new LoL patch, I am hoping that the many new activate items will mix up the game enough so that the current stale feelings I have go away, at least until everyone figures out the new optimal meta.

 

[zebano]

Been playing a lot of DOTA2 while waiting for the Season 3 patch to come out for LoL. I think I noticed one aspect of DOTA that to me, makes it a superior game.

In LoL, the higher tier items add more stats per gold than the lower tier.

For example, longsword costs 41.5 gold per damage, a pickaxe is 39 gold per damage, while a BF sword costs 36.7 gold per damage- the higher tier item is more efficient.

In DOTA, the opposite is generally true, at the low to mid end anyway.

Example, blades of attack (450g) costs 50 gold per damage, a broadsword(1200g) costs 66.6 gold per damage, a claymore (1400g) costs 58.3 gold per damage, mithril hammer costs 66.6 gold per damage.

Even more extreme, iron branch 53g for +1 to each stat, circlet is 185 for +2 to each stat, ultimate orb is 2100g for +10 to each stat, the higher tier item costs approximately 4X as much per stat point for the bonus of being in a single item slot and item build potential.

Okay enough data, what is the point? LoL actually snowballs much harder than DOTA does, at least as far as items and gold is concerned. As you gain more gold through farm and kills, your damage or other stats increases exponentially in LoL, because not only do you have more money to spend on items, you can buy the more expensive items which are simply more stats per gold than the cheap items.

In DOTA, the opposite is true. As you start to farm up lots of gold and rack up kills, you need to choose- either you buy the less efficient expensive single items to combine later, or you can buy stat/gold efficient items which fill your item slots quickly and must be sold later if you ever want to improve.

I find this aspect of the game makes coming back from a bad start much much easier than the equivalent in LoL. If I have a terrible early game in DOTA I can compensate by stacking cheap efficient items, which gives me similar or sometimes even superior stats over my opponents who use their gold to buy singular powerful items. When (or if) I can turn the game around I pay a small penalty when I have to resell those items.

In LoL the only thing that comes close to this is the doran's items, but even then comparing them to simple 1500g+ combine items in LoL the doran items just don't hold up very well. If you get behind early, you really don't have much chance at all of getting back to an even footing as far as stats.



Anyway, back to your usual LoL posting, just felt like sharing something I noticed.

All that said, I am very excited about the new LoL patch, I am hoping that the many new activate items will mix up the game enough so that the current stale feelings I have go away, at least until everyone figures out the new optimal meta.

Interesting thought but I don't see a problem with basic items (provide only 1 stat) being more efficient if you're willing to save for the big item. The real question comes with combine costs. 300 to take 3 good items and combine them to 1 slot in Triforce? yeah that's too good IMO but I think you have to be a bit insane to upgrade your Hexdrinker to a Maw, that just looks like a money sink for very little return on investment.

 

[Firsttime]

Riot's said in the past they want high tier items to be an accomplishment. They don't want to punish players for buying items.

 

[Fenixgoon]

You luxing support?

Have you tried Zyra support yet?

nah i dont have zyra. she looks like a fun AP carry/support as well.

i usually get philo, chalice, and kage's pick...then just build AP like a normal APC after that (while still warding obviously)

 

[zebano]

nah i dont have zyra. she looks like a fun AP carry/support as well.

i usually get philo, chalice, and kage's pick...then just build AP like a normal APC after that (while still warding obviously)

If you're building Chalice why not go for HoG instead of Philo?

 

[ImpulsE69]

nah i dont have zyra. she looks like a fun AP carry/support as well.

i usually get philo, chalice, and kage's pick...then just build AP like a normal APC after that (while still warding obviously)

Zyra is an OP support, I think she fits the support role better than the AP mid role really

 

[crownjules]

I think I may be picking up Zyra. Her or Draven. I've been sitting on a ton of IP because I just can't make a decision on who to pick up. I'll have to log some PBE games with them to get a feel for who I like best.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I should clarify -- Zyra works great as a support in lane, but I would still build her AP mid/late game (like Lux). Because she's so squishy though, I refrain from using her against high mobilities bot lane like Trist/Corki/Leona. She is great for locking Ez down though.

Draven when played well is really great...I however really suck with him :/

 

[crownjules]

<item gold efficiency talk>

And of S3 note on this topic, AD items are going to become more efficient. Many will have reduced prices. Some will have a little more power - for example Bloodthirster is now +70AD and can stack another +30 instead of the current +60/+40. AP items are staying the same. And AR/MR is going to cost a little more.

If you guys want to see the S3 shop http://s3.microtony.com.

 

[zebano]

And of S3 note on this topic, AD items are going to become more efficient. Many will have reduced prices. Some will have a little more power - for example Bloodthirster is now +70AD and can stack another +30 instead of the current +60/+40. AP items are staying the same. And AR/MR is going to cost a little more.

If you guys want to see the S3 shop http://s3.microtony.com.

yeah this is one reason why I really want to main Tristana. Besides being insanely fun and able to hypercarry those cheaper items will really reduce the time from when her spells fall off to when she becomes really useful as an autoattacker. That said I'm stoked to try out Hecarim with Iceborn Guantlet.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Wonder how Riven will play now with all these hyper AD efficient items.

When fed, Riven does absurd damage and gets a 400+ hp shield every 4-5 seconds. Riven is damn fun.

Hell, thats why riven works so well bot lane. Shield blocks harass and then you burst down their carry in under 2 seconds constantly.

 

[zebano]

Support Elise is tons of fun. I died a ton but MF always cleaned up the kills (usually double kill)... I'll have to try it sober tomorrow. Q is just massive damage, she uses very little mana, and has e for utility both the snare and being untargetable is great.

 

[HumblePie]

Argh, stupid Riot bugs.

So 2 weeks ago, I ran into a bug with the pvp.net software. I went to buy myself some runes. I made a purchase of 3 gold+ quints. The problem was, that the system didn't show it as going through. Never showed up runes I could add to my page nor as IP's being deducted from the upper right of the screen. I tried a second time and it still didn't work. I was going to try a third time, when the shopping window showed I was deducted the IPs. So it wouldn't let me try to buy them for a third time as I didn't have enough IPs for a third time. Still, the runes were not showing up in my pages and the IP count in the upper right of the client still showed my original value before any attempted purchases.

Later that evening both purchases showed as going through. So I had 6 quints now instead of 3, which was suppose to be prevented from happening with a recent software update to the client.

So I submitted a ticket to get it fixed. A few days later, I got refunded the IP for the extra quints.

All good right? Nope. That refund triggered a bug that would happen later according to a CSR. For some reason that refund screwed up the refund tokens for my account. Which had some sort of database error that overlapped my runes. So a few days later, when the bug happened, all my rune pages were wiped out. Several of my runes actually went missing.

I played a few games, including a couple of ranked ones, without realizing I didn't have any runes actually applied to my champs despite the dropdown looking "normal" when I was selecting them at the champ select.

I just happened to notice that my stats after a few games were not what they should have been. So I went and submitted another ticket to get my runes and rune pages fixed again. Talk about annoyances. Hopefully that fix doesn't cause another problem in a few days.

 

[EDUSAN]

talk about differences between lol and dota

you have to make into account that in dota you lose money when you get killed and in lol this not happens. Besides the fact that whoever is not doing good is worth less gold too.

In dota you may buy more efficient items with less gold, but you will never be able to get to the big items/builds cause you will have a hard time getting to a good amount of money without dying

not saying if its good or bad, just saying that there is probably a reason why it is like that.

In LOL is not that hard to catch up sometimes. I cant tell how many times a underfarmed and feeder Darius ended up carrying lategame
SNIFF

 

[ImpulsE69]

WOW. So I play a duo with an ATOT'er and he fucking trolls me. "Not coming top till I hit 6 (with a skarner)" when I ask for a gank because I'm being tower dived by a level 3 Riven. 10 minutes later well after he's 6...still no gank, Meanwhile I'm pushed at turret being tower dived the entire game , as I have a punk Leona talking trash telling me to play better. Everyone just continues to ignore top and let Riven farm up while 2-3 ppl are top constantly harassing me. NO ONE CAME TOP ENTIRE GAME..not even my duo jungler! or our MID TF!

So of course I"m pretty pissed and put everyone on ignore and trying to get farmed up mid game, and I see enemy asking "what for?" after they died in a dumbass "gank". Sure enough, Leona spouting report jarv..entire team talking trash entire fucking game, but mostly just the Leona, she never shut up at all. Eventually we lose, ATOT'er immediately removes me from friends list...as if it was MY fault he trolled me. ....wow...can't even trust duo's. And yes, I hope you read this, because that was pretty fucking shitty since you thought you'd be clever and de-friend before I could rip your ass.

So done with this game.