League of Legends - F2P MOBA (like DOTA) part 2

[EDUSAN]

chogath is such a good champion despite not being used that much

he is one of the safest and scariest tops. Its healing passive gives him some good sustain, he is full of AOE CC and his ult hurts 1on1

jungle its great too, you need blue though...pretty frequently, which is something that is not normal nowadays. Mid is always asking for blues, which is a pain in the ass for the jungle, but its a pain in the ass for the mid player if the opponent mid gets blue and your mid doesnt

 

[crownjules]

Anyone have some advice for a new champion to jungle with?

I've mostly been jungling Udyr and enjoying the hell out of it, but wanted to try something else just to mix it up. I really like the way Udyr plays and want something similar. I've tried both Shyvana and Nocturne and don't really like the way they play so they're out.

Is it even worth talking about at this point with all of the changes that will be coming soon?

Mundo as a jungler is good. You just have to get used to the fact that you're going to be at low health for most of the time. And that he's countered hard by a Summoner Spell at least two enemies are likely to carry.

Here are my three top junglers.

Nunu - Is a complete asshole when played well. Constantly stealing the enemy jungler's stuff. Flying out of the jungle to iceball and gank. Completely controlling the map via BB's speed and a focus on buying wards/oracles. And of course BB on your ADC is nasty. Very fast and very safe thanks to Consume.

Nautilus - A CC platform. If you get close to the enemy in a gank, you should have a kill. On the slower side of jungling and susceptible to counter-junglers.

Hecarim - Slow first few clears because his damage doesn't really pick up until the later levels of his abilities. But he gets around the map fast. Once you really learn how to initiate with R and then E the target towards your team, you really have strong ganks. Especially with the range on R.

 

[EDUSAN]

naitilus is free now to try it... i did but he suffers a lot in the early camps, he needs lots of mana, and his shield (that gives aoe damage) doesnt protect you enough time =S

and he is soooooooooo fuckiiiiiiiiiiiing slow, but he is indeed a CC beast, specially with the ult...

 

[crownjules]

Yeah, once you get his shield to level 2 you're okay with his clears. You need a lot of help at wolves and blue to take them down fast / not need to chug potions. Three quick tips to help as well with him in the jungle:

1) His shield lasts for 10 seconds if it's not destroyed, so when first starting the jungle (wolves) activate it at 1:35. Wolves spawn at 1:40. This way the CD will be back up 5 seconds sooner for blue.

2) The shield is also an auto-attack reset since it has an on-hit DoT effect as well. So when you start a camp, your sequence should be E-> AA-> W.

3) Run ASPD runes in your red slots (and quints if you want, though I prefer MVSPD) as it gives you a good enough DPS boost for jungling.

 

[zebano]

chogath is such a good champion despite not being used that much

he is one of the safest and scariest tops. Its healing passive gives him some good sustain, he is full of AOE CC and his ult hurts 1on1

jungle its great too, you need blue though...pretty frequently, which is something that is not normal nowadays. Mid is always asking for blues, which is a pain in the ass for the jungle, but its a pain in the ass for the mid player if the opponent mid gets blue and your mid doesnt

You are 100% wrong. You don't even *need* first blue though it's extremely painful without it (like most other mana junglers). Max e (or at least get to level 3) first and you have all the power you need to clear. That's literally all there is to it, if you're spamming Q and W at every camp you're just wasting mana unless you plan to back soon. Cho jungle was my main champ for about the last 4 months of season 2 and got me to 1500, he has no mana problems after level 4. I personally rush Boots, P. Stone, HoG in every game then decide if I need merc treads or if I can grab mobility boots for better ganking/counterganking and move immediately to glacial shroud for the CDR (6 stack cho is scary) unless I'm at 3 stacks already or need MR in which case I go wit's end.

core is Boots of some kind, P Stone, HoG, Frozen Heart
Very common items - Wit's End, Merc Treads, Mobility Boots, Oracles, Abyssal (if my Wit's is delayed till past 20 min I'll grab this unless someone else has it)
Late game items - Upgrade both G/10s,
Option Items if Fed or game is really really long - RoA, FoN, GA, Rylai's (procs on your E) other defensive items

skilling E, Q, W to gank or E again to continue jungling then the other one. After that get E to 3 or 5 then max W taking R whenever possible. Q is always last since E makes for better camp clears and W levels increase the silence length.

Runes - AS Reds, Armor Yellow, MR/lvl Blue, MS quints

Masteries 0-21-9.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Yo Zeb, you jungled Mundo alot.

What do you think of my "final" build?

Merc Treads
HOG
Warmogs
Wits End
Sunfire CApe
GA
HOG-Randuins

 

[zebano]

naitilus is free now to try it... i did but he suffers a lot in the early camps, he needs lots of mana, and his shield (that gives aoe damage) doesnt protect you enough time =S

and he is soooooooooo fuckiiiiiiiiiiiing slow, but he is indeed a CC beast, specially with the ult...

Nautilus is awesome and probably my second favorite jungler in solo queue. Some tips - Q at level 1 for an invade will seriously fuck up your jungle, even if you get the kill. You pretty much have to go W, E, W, Q though you can grab Q at 3 and gank if you want. I usually warn my teammates about this in lobby.

Be sure to activate the shield for wolves at 1:33 this allows you to use it during the fight against blue. The more team help you get at these camps the better.

Remember that you can hook and pull yourself to terrain, this can get you out of sticky situations sometimes.

Crownjule's tips are all solid.

 

[zebano]

Mundo as a jungler is good. You just have to get used to the fact that you're going to be at low health for most of the time. And that he's countered hard by a Summoner Spell at least two enemies are likely to carry.

Here are my three top junglers.

Nunu - Is a complete asshole when played well. Constantly stealing the enemy jungler's stuff. Flying out of the jungle to iceball and gank. Completely controlling the map via BB's speed and a focus on buying wards/oracles. And of course BB on your ADC is nasty. Very fast and very safe thanks to Consume.

Nautilus - A CC platform. If you get close to the enemy in a gank, you should have a kill. On the slower side of jungling and susceptible to counter-junglers.

Hecarim - Slow first few clears because his damage doesn't really pick up until the later levels of his abilities. But he gets around the map fast. Once you really learn how to initiate with R and then E the target towards your team, you really have strong ganks. Especially with the range on R.

I like your jungle choices in general but I don't like low Elo Hecarim just because he needs help to get started and unless the enemies are bad ganks pre-6 are usually weak.

Nunu is way different from all other junglers, you pretty much have to counter jungle but don't worry about clearing full camps, just take the big creep and build your G/10 items. A low money Nunu is way way way better than a low money (any other jungler). Good Nunus are a terror however. One thing you'll find if you run some custom games is that you can solo dragon at level 4 or 5 if you go back to shop once. I think I had boots + cloth armor + D. Ring 2 Q, 1 E, 1W and Smite available but it was really close level 3 Q makes it much safer.



You didn't mention Skarner who I think is the safest and easiest strong jungler to play well. He doesn't get low in the jungle and even at low levels the slow on his Q makes his ganks strong and they become terrifying once he has his ultimate. The CDR on his shield got nerfed but it didn't make much difference IMO. Just rush that Shurelyias spear someone and drag them back to your team...

Good Shyvanas and Lee Sin are still really really really strong too. Both can counter jungle well but I prefer Lee for his early ganks (I don't personally play him).

 

[zebano]

Yo Zeb, you jungled Mundo alot.

What do you think of my "final" build?

Merc Treads
HOG
Warmogs
Wits End
Sunfire CApe
GA
HOG-Randuins

Work's for me.

I actually tried him out for like 20 games and decided he wasn't my style (so take all this with a grain of salt). That said his e is a powerful AD buff so I really like the Wit's for the AS and Warmog's unfortunately feels required which I never like. The Rise of Ezreal is what really made me give him up as I was just getting Kited too much even when I landed my cleavers. Personally I found two build orders I like one of which is similar to yours

Safe way - boots, HoG, Merc Treads, Spirit Visage + Chain Armor (building pieces as I can), Wits, Chain, Warmogs and GA if the game is still going. If you get a few kills early just skip the HoG and get the real items. This tends to work pretty well but late game I just can't avoid being Kited by Ez/corki =(

Early Game dominance (my preferred way) - boots, 0-2 D. Shields (as needed), boots2, Ghostblade, Wit's End and gank like crazy once you have either the ult or ghostblade as those + cleaver mean no one will get away. I really prefer this in low AP damage games as I can rush Tabi's and get going faster. Ult + Ghostblade makes diving a very real possibility until people start grouping. The main problem is how long this delays your HP and defensive items so when you hit somewhere around level 13 and people are grouped you are just way too squishy to be useful and actually need to farm if you didn't go crazy and win already. I've actually had won games turn around on me going from 8-2 (as a team) to 10-10 because we didn't have an initiator or if we did I was a terrible bruiser and could only sit back and peel so good teams would kill our initiator, disengage then take an objective.


TheOddOne does have a very good guide on mundo up at solomid.net. I personally like the 0-30-0 mastery setup he suggests as well as the 3 armor quints. I tried Spell Vamp quints and while they're a big help not getting so low in the early jungle (I suggest them if you want to counter jungle) they're not much use once you have your ultimate.

 

[krnmastersgt]

Nunu has problems as a jungler, and while I liked him a lot for a short period of time the basic problem with him as a jungler kept cropping back up. Yes he's very safe, and an excellent counter jungler, you can often outlevel the other jungler by 2-3 levels by the time you're 9 if you don't even gank, just constantly steal their jungle from them.

However his ganks are relatively lackluster, similar to Mundo's but without as much raw damage output (and a weaker slow for a while). And the other issue is he's pretty much the epitome of support jungler, he has no natural scaling damage that makes him a threat in late-game team fights, his only saving grace is Ice Blasting the enemy ADC to reduce their AS and blood boiling yours, but if your ADC sucks then you're pretty much boned because that's how Nunu plays out lategame.

And Lee Sin is an amazing jungler once you get used to playing him and all his nuances. If I had to pick 1 champ to jungle with it'd definitely be Lee Sin as since he was launched, he's always been in the top tier junglers, despite the numerous changes to the jungle and the meta. He's got great survivability when played and built correctly, above average clear times, insane ganking potential and mobility, and a LOT of raw damage early on.

 

[nanobreath]

The biggest thing about picking a jungler nowadays is being versatile in multiple champions, such that you can pick a jungler that really fits your team comp. Same of course goes with most other roles. When your team locks in an ashe/sona bot, with something like a cassiopia mid (or other super squishy characters) you really need strong initiators/bruisers/tanks for your jungle and top picks. But if your bottom support is Leona with a Chogath top, you might want a more assassin jungler so that you can match your team. Of course in ranked there is also counter-picking the enemies picks for your lane.

Just that there are so many options nowadays for champions, that you should be able to pick a champion that fits in with your current team comp, while also countering enemy picks. I guess what I'm saying is don't just play 3 junglers that all function nearly the same, try to learn all the different roles that can jungle.

 

[crownjules]

New Tear of the Goddess:
+250 Mana
+7 mana regen per 5 seconds
Unique Passive - Mana Charge: Each time you spend mana, your maximum mana increases by 4 (3 seconds cooldown).
Bonus Mana: 0/750

So the max mana is reduced, but the the activation has been changed. Now toggles like Singed's poison, Karthus' Defile, Anivia's Blizzard, and Ashe's Frost Arrows count towards getting it stacked.

Staff of the Archangel
+250 Mana
+60 AP
+10 mana regen per 5 seconds
Unique Passive - Insight +(3% of max mana) AP
Unique Passive - Mana Charge: Each time you spend mana, your max mana is increased by 5 (3 second cooldown).
Bonus Mana: 0/750
Transforms into Seraph's Embrace at 750 bonus mana.


Seraph's Embrace
+1000 Mana
+60 AP
+10 mana regen per 5
Unique Passive - Insight: +(3% of max mana) AP
Unique Active: Drains 25% of your current mana to shield yourself for an equal amount for 2.5 seconds - 120 second cooldown.

 

[zebano]

New Tear of the Goddess:
+250 Mana
+7 mana regen per 5 seconds
Unique Passive - Mana Charge: Each time you spend mana, your maximum mana increases by 4 (3 seconds cooldown).
Bonus Mana: 0/750

So the max mana is reduced, but the the activation has been changed. Now toggles like Singed's poison, Karthus' Defile, Anivia's Blizzard, and Ashe's Frost Arrows count towards getting it stacked.

Staff of the Archangel
+250 Mana
+60 AP
+10 mana regen per 5 seconds
Unique Passive - Insight +(3% of max mana) AP
Unique Passive - Mana Charge: Each time you spend mana, your max mana is increased by 5 (3 second cooldown).
Bonus Mana: 0/750
Transforms into Seraph's Embrace at 750 bonus mana.


Seraph's Embrace
+1000 Mana
+60 AP
+10 mana regen per 5
Unique Passive - Insight: +(3% of max mana) AP
Unique Active: Drains 25% of your current mana to shield yourself for an equal amount for 2.5 seconds - 120 second cooldown.

ohh a reason to build Archangel's staff. me want.

 

[p0nd]

that is going to be so good on singed.

 

[zebano]

that is going to be so good on singed.

maybe but when would you buy it? If you rush it you're going to be super super squishy and just die. Even as a second or third item you typically need to be building defensive items and if you build it too late will you have time to stack it?

 

[EDUSAN]

i like the new item...although DRAINS 25% OF YOUR CURRENT MANA seems .... harsh

lets see..you have 3k mana.. but you already spent half... you have 1500 mana... 25% of that is a shield that will protect you for: 375 damage.. but the mana is drained ... so as a mage you will have 375 mana less to spend after the shield goes out

not sure about it...

 

[EDUSAN]

maybe but when would you buy it? If you rush it you're going to be super super squishy and just die. Even as a second or third item you typically need to be building defensive items and if you build it too late will you have time to stack it?

mana is HP for singed... so you will be getting tons of AP, tons of mana...SOME HP and a shield ... i dont see it that bad

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Man, they're implementing mana shield into the game. My idea!.

 

[crownjules]

Man, they're implementing mana shield into the game. My idea!.

Mana Barrier: When Blitzcrank's life is brought below 20% he activates Mana Barrier, creating a damage shields that lasts for 10 seconds. The shield strength is equal to 50% of Blitzcrank's current mana.


Also Black Cleaver is being redone. It will now build out of a Brutalizer and does the following:

+45 AD
+10 ArPen
+10% CDR
Passive: Dealing physical damage to an enemy reduces their Armor is reduced by 5% for 6 seconds. This effect stacks up to five times on the same target.

So this change allows the passive effect to be triggered by physical damaging abilities as well as each time the damage ticks. So an ability like Garen's Judgement or Pantheon's Heartseeker Strike can trigger multiple stacks of BC. And this armor shred other teammates will benefit from as well, so an ADC might get to hit a -25% armor target after it sat in Garen's spin for a couple seconds.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Mana Barrier: When Blitzcrank's life is brought below 20% he activates Mana Barrier, creating a damage shields that lasts for 10 seconds. The shield strength is equal to 50% of Blitzcrank's current mana.


Also Black Cleaver is being redone. It will now build out of a Brutalizer and does the following:

+45 AD
+10 ArPen
+10% CDR
Passive: Dealing physical damage to an enemy reduces their Armor is reduced by 5% for 6 seconds. This effect stacks up to five times on the same target.

So this change allows the passive effect to be triggered by physical damaging abilities as well as each time the damage ticks. So an ability like Garen's Judgement or Pantheon's Heartseeker Strike can trigger multiple stacks of BC. And this armor shred other teammates will benefit from as well, so an ADC might get to hit a -25% armor target after it sat in Garen's spin for a couple seconds.

Well, when I said "mana barrier" I was hoping more like Diablo mana shield, which literally used your mana bar as a health bar before your normal health bar.

Much like Diablo 1 however, that would probably make most casters OP.

 

[p0nd]

maybe but when would you buy it? If you rush it you're going to be super super squishy and just die. Even as a second or third item you typically need to be building defensive items and if you build it too late will you have time to stack it?

hm that's true - iirc they also said tear is becoming cheaper so you can rush it faster. you definitely can't replace catalyst with (new) tear because then you lose a ton of sustain. singed is also a good farmer so it seems possible that getting tear 3rd then quickly grabbing a chain vest or negatron could work. I guess playtesting is the way to do it as always

 

[krnmastersgt]

Singed has naturally high defensive stats, and thanks to the mobility he gets from his ult he doesn't really need to build heavy defense early on, just focus on hp and 1-2 items to counter your lane. Not to mention as others said before, his passive gives him HP from mana, and the new Tear can proc the mana increase from just having poison on so he'll be able to stack it incredibly quickly giving him much more mana and hp early on.

What I'd probably do is modify a decently farming singed's item order, instead of getting a RoA pretty quickly just grab the catalyst then grab the tear before finishing the RoA.

 

[Hacp]

Wow what a week for me interms of skins. The jurassic kog skin and mafia graves both on sale. Last time I bought RP was christmas,and I still had 1000 rp left, so I bought them both. Don't think i'll be buying any more RP soon though.

 

[crownjules]

Jungle change preview is up and it sounds like they're deploying it in this patch we're waiting on. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=31219783

Highlights:

- Jungle camps are going to do more damage so that junglers can't gank so early.
- The larger monsters in camps are going to have more HP so single-target focused champs aren't at a disadvantage to the AoE clearers like in S2.
- Gold and XP rewards will be increased and the amount of damage and health monsters gain over time is going to decrease.
- Several new items to be added for junglers, both starting items and build paths
- Seems like leashing will be more difficult as jungle camps are modified to now attack the closest target, not the target that first attacked them

In that thread, Statikk mentions a starting jungler item called Hunter's Machete. Costs 300g and provides no base stats but increases you damage dealt to jungle monsters by a % and deals bonus true damage on basic attacks to jungle monsters (not quite sure the difference, I guess the first is for abilities). It upgrades into Madred's Razor or another new item called Spirit Stone which he hints is for non-auto attack champs.

edit: Zeb will like this reply from Statikk regarding Trundle -

Actually just hopped on the internal server to do a jungle run with him.

To say the least, it's pretty impressive. His passive and Q debuff provide him with fairly good resilience in the jungle and the single target changes have definitely benefited his clear speed.

Couple this with what I know about late game Trundle with items (hint: it's pretty scary if he ults the right targets...), I think he has a better place in this new jungle.

 

[crownjules]

I played one ranked game this weekend on Sat morning. We get into champ select and as our team is first picking, our 2nd pick is saying "I can't pick Cait". I thought he might have the bug where if you search for the champ for some reason it shows up like they've been banned. The first person takes Cait for him. At this point I remember the change and ask him if he's bought Cait and of course the answer is "no but I was just playing her in normal." :facepalm: