League of Legends - F2P MOBA (like DOTA) part 2

[crownjules]

Ziggs is definitely OP. Not sure what Riot was thinking there...

"Release an obviously OP champ so that more people will be tricked into buying him with RP ($) until we nerf him down to a reasonable or UP level in a few weeks."

 

[zebano]

"Release an obviously OP champ so that more people will be tricked into buying him with RP ($) until we nerf him down to a reasonable or UP level in a few weeks."

Too many of their champs simply aren't that good initially so I think they simply don't have enough good players on the test realms to really find the right balance points. Personally I've not played against a Ziggs good enough to land his skillshots.

 

[crownjules]

Yeah, I was being a bit cynical. It's clear that Riot's QA/testing departments are terrible, as evidenced by how awful champions are on release (either too OP or UP, very few spot on where they should be) and the amount of bugs present with each new patch release.

I haven't played yet against a Zigg since I've only been playing bot matches to get my IP bonus this week. Been nursing the sick GF and her laptop can't really handle LoL even on min settings.

 

[HumblePie]

Don't have Ziggs yet but I went against him in lane as Cass. He just throws massive AoE, high damage bombs and mines constantly. Hard to avoid them all. Almost impossible to avoid his bigger damaging bombs if he tosses a mine field right on you, which slows you down a bunch so he can blast you with his bombs. The range on his ult is ridiculous. Same range as noc, panth, and TF for their ults, without putting him in danger. He just tosses an ult to the side lanes from mid lane to score a kill. Unlike gangplanks which is damage over time and he can do the same, Zigg is just one massive bomb. No chance of getting out of the blade before all damage is done.

On top of that his damage is obscene. Max Q will two shot any squishy at level 8+. As I was playing Cass, I was dodging his attacks constantly, but if he got a lucky bounce or I was just a tad bit too slow and got hit I lost damn near half my health from one attack. All the had was 2 doran rings! I was like wtf is this shit?

 

[RPD]

His burst is HUGE, so much AoE, has a displacement spell, AoE slow and his ult is 100% stupid OP. I mean dude has a longer range on his bomb ult than a ghost with a nuke in Starcraft.

It's hilarious how OP he is right now.

 

[crownjules]

If he's as stupid OP as you guys are saying, I'm surprised there hasn't been a hotfix nerf. Riot's at least been good about doing that when they release champs that badly balanced.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

I dunno, I really haven't had much trouble against him. It may be because I'm a little less prone to calling champions OP, more I find most of them annoying as fuck, but he has long cooldowns so I just jump on him after he blows most of them.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I've been playing him a bit, and against him and against people who just stand still yes he's OP.

His abilities are easy to dodge, even his ult. If any of them hit, then yes, you'll pay for it, with runes/masteries and a dorans ring, I start with over 50AP so he hurts alot in the beginning. Again though, once you see what he does you can dodge them. He seems very slow (even with boots) compared to others granted I don't recalll what his base speed is.

Due to him having two "lay down" abilities (W and E) I've found him useful for zoning in lane and keeping people away while your team hits their turret. Played against a Cass and he definitely keeps her on her toes.

His ult does mad damage and would be devistating during Galio/Amumu/Nunu ults.

Otherwise though, I think as people learn to play against him, he won't seem as OP. I'm sure they'll nerf his AP ratios at some point, but really his moves are so easy to avoid, it's just like it's a big payoff if you actually hit.

 

[hans030390]

I've been playing him a bit, and against him and against people who just stand still yes he's OP.

His abilities are easy to dodge, even his ult. If any of them hit, then yes, you'll pay for it, with runes/masteries and a dorans ring, I start with over 50AP so he hurts alot in the beginning. Again though, once you see what he does you can dodge them. He seems very slow (even with boots) compared to others granted I don't recalll what his base speed is.

Due to him having two "lay down" abilities (W and E) I've found him useful for zoning in lane and keeping people away while your team hits their turret. Played against a Cass and he definitely keeps her on her toes.

His ult does mad damage and would be devistating during Galio/Amumu/Nunu ults.

Otherwise though, I think as people learn to play against him, he won't seem as OP. I'm sure they'll nerf his AP ratios at some point, but really his moves are so easy to avoid, it's just like it's a big payoff if you actually hit.

I didn't find his moves particularly hard to dodge, but they do put out way too much damage it seems. I don't know what his mana costs or cooldown times are like, but it seemed like he could deal a bunch of damage way too often and easily. He's especially awful in crazy team fights where you can't see what's going on to begin with. It also does not seem like his ult gives you enough time to get out of the way unless you're very close to the edge.

Most games I've seen him in, he ends up with the most amount of kills. The number of kills are a bit too high to entirely blame it on players not being used to fighting against him, though this is definitely a factor.

 

[xSkyDrAx]

I didn't find his moves particularly hard to dodge, but they do put out way too much damage it seems. I don't know what his mana costs or cooldown times are like, but it seemed like he could deal a bunch of damage way too often and easily. He's especially awful in crazy team fights where you can't see what's going on to begin with. It also does not seem like his ult gives you enough time to get out of the way unless you're very close to the edge.

Most games I've seen him in, he ends up with the most amount of kills. The number of kills are a bit too high to entirely blame it on players not being used to fighting against him, though this is definitely a factor.

I've been playing him and he does throw out a good amount of damage though only his Q is really 'spammable' His W and E are on a long enough CD that if he throws all 3 at once on you you won't see W E for a while.

His W doesn't do a ton of damage its mainly for the knock around. His mines are good at zoning but most people won't step on the majority of them it's mainly for farming/pushing. Great in team fights though. His main source of damage his is Q and his ult.

His ult has a hilarious range but it's tricky because of the casting dely. It works a little like ashe's arrow but up close there's still a dely because it 'goes up' then comes down. At longer ranges this time is increased of course and since it's going over the map while it moves it won't just hit anything on the way.

In this it's not as good as Gp's in that his comes down immediately but his damage is over time. Zigg's ult is harder to target but its damage is immediate. Overall still very fun to play and I love the sound effects.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I've been playing him and he does throw out a good amount of damage though only his Q is really 'spammable' His W and E are on a long enough CD that if he throws all 3 at once on you you won't see W E for a while.

His W doesn't do a ton of damage its mainly for the knock around. His mines are good at zoning but most people won't step on the majority of them it's mainly for farming/pushing. Great in team fights though. His main source of damage his is Q and his ult.

His ult has a hilarious range but it's tricky because of the casting dely. It works a little like ashe's arrow but up close there's still a dely because it 'goes up' then comes down. At longer ranges this time is increased of course and since it's going over the map while it moves it won't just hit anything on the way.

In this it's not as good as Gp's in that his comes down immediately but his damage is over time. Zigg's ult is harder to target but its damage is immediate. Overall still very fun to play and I love the sound effects.

One thing I do notice about him is that I easily lose focus on him on the map. Maybe that's just me, but he seems to blend in on summoners rift and in large team fights, it's harder to track him than usual.

 

[Hacp]

Correct. There is always a chance to turn it around and come back for a win no matter how bad the start. Although it may be a very low percentage chance. I was in a turn around game yesterday with Thayorn. I went Graves and he went Taric bottom. We were against a Sivir and a Sona. He took one ward only to start with. No big deal.

So we get to bottom lane and the other teams jungler, Lee sin, grabs red and tries a level 2 quick gank on us while we are level 1. It almost worked, but we got away. However, we did take some hits. After a couple of heals from Taric and some life stealing, I got back to nearly full. The problem was we were pushed up against our tower, which was stealing CS from me this early in the game. We were getting exps, but the tower shoots faster and harder to kill minions compared to me. Factor in the minions killing each other and it gets really hard to last hit with any reliability that early in the game. We needed to push out and push out safely somewhat from the tower, but sona was camping that side brush near the tower. Anytime we moved an inch from the tower she would pop out to Q us and power cord me. Then she would turn back into the bush and hide. If sivir could, she would toss out a Q to try to hit me as well. It was getting frustrating. Thayorn tells me over vent he is going to place a ward. I am thinking, "FINALLY! we gain some brush control back from sona." Instead he goes around the back side out towards river to ward the river bush. I see him going and ask him what the hell he's doing. He responds warding river, and I said, "Why the hell you doing that? We aren't in any position to be in danger from a gank from the river. We are getting out shit pushed in right on our tower from lack of brush control. Ward that brush by the tower instead!"

Of course he doesn't. Of course I can't last hit or push out now. I can always go back to base to heal fully, but then I risk letting sivir and sona gain to much in levels over me by doing so. I tell thayorn that we are now screwed because he did that bad ward placement. He says, "Just chill and last hit on the tower." I tell him I can't because the tower is taking too much CS from me to keep up with sivir. And both are capable of poking me on the tower. Which is exactly what ended up happening. We both kept getting poked by sivir and sona. Finally, when we could no longer keep up with healing enough from the pokes they then tower dove us. We both died while they both lived. This was at level 4 or so. Now w are really far behind as Sivir got both kills.

I was a bit pissed with Thayorn for that since it really was his fault. Not once did the ward he put in the river that first time be usable. We never once pushed out from the tower to need a ward in the river to prevent a gank. Instead we needed a ward in the brush to stop them from destroying us on the tower. So we respawn and this time I buy the ward. I place it in the brush. All of a sudden we now have brush control and sona can't hide in there to constantly poke us. We are able to push out from the tower without over extending. Or next problem came with Thayorn as Taric constantly trying to stun sivir. It would have been fine, but he never once tried to fake her out. So she spell shielded whenever he ran straight at her. He should have broke off to fake her into using her shield and then stunned her after the shield went down. But he would send his stun at her after sivir shielded herself everytime. Thayron doing this over and over was giving Sivir plenty more mana to constantly harass us back. It was getting annoying. Once they reached level 6 though they caught Thayorn trying to send a stun at sivir. Sona stunned Thayorn and me and we got destroyed before we could reach safety. This happened again as soon as we came back into lane for a second time, but the second time I managed to pick up one kill from Sona. So I was 1/3/0 at this point. Thayorn as Taric was now 0/3/0. Sivir was getting fed and had more CS than me. Things were looking bleak with a 6/0/0 Sivir in our lane.

One good thing finally happened next. We came back into lane after our last deaths, and Lee Sin tries to gank as soon as we arrive. The funny thing is that our jungler, Sejuani, comes into gank as well at that same moment. Making it a 3 on 3. For some reason they all focus Taric and Sejuani and leave me mostly alone. I managed to snag three kills while only Taric died and Sejuani barely got away. I was then able to farm a few minion waves to bring my CS up after that. Luckily Sivir went the stupid route and bought a blood thirster first. I got an IE first.

Soon after I was dominating. I ended up 17/7/21 for the game as Graves. I had IE, Tri-force, PD, Atmas, BT, and Zerker Greaves by the end of the game. I was sitting at 92% crit chance. My attack speed was 2.4 something after I would dash. Standing next to Taric who was running Aegis on top of his buff I would have 550 something AD. I was running crit damage runes as well so I had another +100% crit damage as well. I also had over 200 armor, 140 MR, and 2.6K health. I was pretty darn tanky thanks to graves passive, the aegis, and taric aura buff. I was literally 2-shotting anyone on the other team.

For awhile we WERE losing pretty badly. Mid and top weren't doing so hot. Or jungler was actually decent, but we were failing bottom as well because of a few early stupid decisions by thayorn. In the end though we came back with a vengeance.


That's why you don't leave games Malak. Wait for 20 and surrender. AFK or leaving is against the summoner code and will get you banned.

You were running crit runes? No wonder you couldn't last hit at tower.

 

[xSkyDrAx]

One thing I do notice about him is that I easily lose focus on him on the map. Maybe that's just me, but he seems to blend in on summoners rift and in large team fights, it's harder to track him than usual.

Well he does have a small character model since he is a yordle and also he has a good amount range with his Q and his ult that he can stay further back that most would realize. He really only needs to get 'close' when throwing his W and E.

Also since his Q can go through things and hit blind targets it allows him for more unique angles of attack.

 

[HumblePie]

You were running crit runes? No wonder you couldn't last hit at tower.

Actually, it was a mix of AD and crit damage. It's my tryndamere setup. Wtih dorans blade I start with 86 AD I think with graves. Good enough to last hit decently. But still not enough to keep up with a tower level 1.

 

[HumblePie]

His Q gives him lots of range and can be to bounce around minions. It is also spammable and does damn good damage. Plus it is AoE damage when it blows as well can do impact damage. Get enough mana regen and it's pretty darn spammable in lane against an opponent.

Sure they can dodge it since it is a skill shot, but good skill shot players know when to toss our their abilities for the highest chance of hitting. Early on it's a matter of knowing how a player has to come in to last hit. Watch YOUR minions as much as the other teams minions. When you see a minion getting low, you know they are probably going to come in for a last hit. That's all the setup you need to predict where they are going to be to toss a skill shot in an area they are about to move to. Once a person clicks, they may not be able to click away in time to dodge the incoming attack if it's been fired and moving as they clicked to an area. That's how you land skill shots more often. Predict where they are going to go, or fake them into a different direction and toss. You won't land them all, but you can certainly get your percentage up even against good players. There is only so much room for a person in lane to maneuver with and if they don't have boots it is even easier to hit them.

This is really what makes Zigg so damn strong early. Send him mid against another AP caster. Most AP casters take doran's ring and don't have continuous sustain. So they don't have a way early to get back life nor the speed needed to dodge skillshots effectively. Which means well placed Q bombs are going to ruin their game fairly quickly.

 

[Jax Omen]

Ziggs is fun as hell, but he feels to me like a higher-damage, harder to play Xerath. Outrageous range but once you cast your spells you've got nothing left, only his Q has a short CD.

 

[Malak]

I bolded the part you seem to be missing. Leaving games can get you banned as you're essentially screwing over 9 other people.

I never left a single game before the 4th ban. Now I leave games all the time and have never been banned since. The tribunal is a joke run by trolls, Riot doesn't care, and I'm not going to be bothered with it. I can't even tell you how many leaves I've had since that 4th ban. I have no clue why I got banned 4 times, and Riot refuses to tell people or show evidence or anything, they have zero control since making the tribunal. And if you ask them about it, they'll tell you that only bad people get punished because they have the utmost faith in the tribunal to not punish good people.

True.

 

[imported_Computer MAn]

I think Ziggs seems overpowered just because of the way the game is played late. With team fights and everyone converging on a spot his ult is just ridiculous. Similar to Fiddle ult except he doesn't have to be in the middle of it. However the thing that I feel would make Ziggs ult much better as well as more skill based is decreasing damage based on how far you are away from the origin. 100% at the center, 75%, 50%, 25% would seem fair to me and would seperate those that can actually use the Ziggs ult from those that go, haha bot lane is low free double kill.

 

[Jax Omen]

His ult DOES decrease, it's 100% in a tiny circle in the middle, 75% in the bigger AoE.

 

[imported_Computer MAn]

His ult DOES decrease, it's 100% in a tiny circle in the middle, 75% in the bigger AoE.

In that case I would argue that there needs to be a larger decrease than 75% for that whole circle.

 

[hans030390]

I never left a single game before the 4th ban. Now I leave games all the time and have never been banned since. The tribunal is a joke run by trolls, Riot doesn't care, and I'm not going to be bothered with it. I can't even tell you how many leaves I've had since that 4th ban. I have no clue why I got banned 4 times, and Riot refuses to tell people or show evidence or anything, they have zero control since making the tribunal. And if you ask them about it, they'll tell you that only bad people get punished because they have the utmost faith in the tribunal to not punish good people.

True.

Not that Tribunal isn't a joke, but given how you talk about LoL, I'm not surprised you've been banned before.

 

[Firsttime]

I've played 1500 games of LoL, mostly since the tribunal was released. I don't leave. I don't trash talk in chat. I don't feed. I've never been banned.

Truth.

Tribunal works as planned. So many people don't even realize the shit they put their teammates through.

 

[CPA]

I've played 1500 games of LoL, mostly since the tribunal was released. I don't leave. I don't trash talk in chat. I don't feed. I've never been banned.

Truth.

Tribunal works as planned. So many people don't even realize the shit they put their teammates through.

Same here, thought not nearly as many games. However, I just finished a game where I will probably get reported and I just reported someone for the first time who wouldn't shut the hell up.

I was playing Nunu for the first time and did a couple stupid things, but I was also 8/8/13, so not bad first time playing him. The idiot was playing Fiddlesticks, was 5/13/2 and kept tanking a lane. He also kept harrassing me (we started in the same lane together). Usually I ignore it, but this guy would not stop pushing. He was trying to get other players to report me. Again, not anything I usually care about, but some people just need to grow up. Put a black spot on an otherwise good game.

 

[nanobreath]

Not that Tribunal isn't a joke, but given how you talk about LoL, I'm not surprised you've been banned before.

I loled, because it's true.

 

[HumblePie]

I've more than likely have been reported on numerous occasions but I've never been banned. Most of which was probably from troll or counter reports though from people I was going to report and was asking for others to report that player.

For example... the other day I was being trolled in a few games pretty bad. I started a game and at champ select screen I'm the last to pick. The others pick in front of me, jungle fiddle (who sucks now), Pantheon (who is okay but doesn't scale well late game), Malz (a so-so AP champ), and Brand (another so-so AP champ).

So I'm like wtf is this team comp and picks? I asked who was going bottom and if they plan on support or not? Panth speaks up, "I'm going bottom bitch!" Just cussing from the get go. Since I hate waiting 5 minutes from dodging, I figured to make them dodge. So I pick Evelynn. I did take flash and ignite though. They don't say a word at all about my pick which I thought was weird.

So the game starts and I go bot with Panth. Minions haven't even spawn and he decides to check and see if the enemy is at their tower. They were so he dives right in and proceeds to die. I'm serious. Level 1 pantheon tower diving when there are no minions in lane. Guess what happens? Yep he proceeds to blame me. "I can't work with this fucking Eve! She fucking sucks. Getting me killed already!"

WTF?!? some people are bonkers. Panth proceeds to do this and feeds with 17 deaths. The Brand, and Malz also are doing horrible. By the end of the game only Fiddlesticks and myself did any good. Fiddle sticks ends up 8/8/5. I end up 2/6/18. By the way, we only had 20 kills as a team so I was a part of all of them. Malz and Brand both had 12 deaths and Pantheon took the cake at 17 deaths.

During which time Panth, Malz and Brand all kept asking the other team to report me for trolling. Over /ALL chat I'm like, "WTF? I'm the only one doing good on my team and they want to report me for trolling? With a double digit death pantheon that tower dives solo at level 1? I'm the troll?"

To which the other team responds, "Anyone picking Eve is a troll period so I'm going to report you."

Kids these days. Eve may not be the best champ, but she can be played well. Speaking of which 2 games later I played a game as Sona against a team that had an Eve. Guess what? That Eve steam rolled us because the corki we had top lane was trolling and fed her along with brand. I was doing awesome bottom lane with Graves and we had 3 or 4 kills with no deaths. Then we get this Eve coming from top lane at 16 minutes who is already level 16 with Tri Force, Warmogs, Zerker Greaves, Wit's End, and Atmas. That Eve absolutely destroyed us since we were both still level 12 or so. Even still we almost one that game since our jungler wasn't too bad as Udyr as well as Graves and I doing good all game. We just couldn't carry trolling Corki that was 0/21/3 and the Brand who was 3/10/5 by the end of the game. WTF do you do with players on your team like that?

Point of my story is that you are most likely going to be report regardless. But Tribunal works because as long as you are actually doing well or making the attempt without being an ass over the chat logs during the games then you won't be banned. If you give up, talk shit, and/or purposefully troll the game then chances are good you are going to get banned.

One last note about Tribunal, the decision to ban is still ultimately up to Riot. Every player that reviews your case can select BAN and you may have thousands of ban votes for your case. But if Riot doesn't see what you've done as bannable then you won't be banned. The reverse is true as well. You could be pardoned by everyone, but if Riot sees a bannable offense that the players are missing then you will be banned.