My 5-year-old Samsung DLP is still rocking the original bulb, up around 12,000 hours now. Still looks fine.
Yeah, I'm craving that one at the moment. You're talking the Best Buy exclusive Sammy, right?
Only difference in that one and the more expensive 50" is less HDMI inputs and no USB, I believe.
I don't know how many damn HDMI's you're supposed to need, anyway.
Critical picture specs are all identical, according to Samsung's site. Only difference is, number of HDMI, etc But the pic on all of them should be identical.
Damn, I want one. I wish the freaking indestructible bulb in my DLP would blow, so I could tell the wife the TV is dead...then I could get one. (and fix the DLP later, and go, "oh, look, it's not dead after all")
My family got a 50" Hitachi LCD RPTV (720p/1080i) a few years back. It may not be 1080p, but WOW, it looks incredible with HD content! Better than a lot of TVs I've seen. Viewing angles have never been a problem for the family (and it's not an ideal set up horizontally, trust me).
Our only problem was that we went through 2 bulbs in under 2 years. Our 3rd has been going strong since then (probably because they didn't have a surge protector at the time...).
What I love about the TV is how "deep" the settings are right away. For example, on a calibration DVD, I can turn off the red, green, or blue channels to fine tune the color settings. It doesn't try to push "easy" settings on you or anything, and that's great. I don't see many TVs that allow the user to calibrate it to the fullest extent without tools or some "specialist".
Anyway, that has nothing to do with DLP TVs. I just wanted to say that I really like that TV.
Our only problem was that we went through 2 bulbs in under 2 years. Our 3rd has been going strong since then (probably because they didn't have a surge protector at the time...).
What I love about the TV is how "deep" the settings are right away. For example, on a calibration DVD, I can turn off the red, green, or blue channels to fine tune the color settings. It doesn't try to push "easy" settings on you or anything, and that's great. I don't see many TVs that allow the user to calibrate it to the fullest extent without tools or some "specialist".
Anyway, that has nothing to do with DLP TVs. I just wanted to say that I really like that TV.
So I've visited about a dozen B&Ms, went over to several friends houses to see setups running in a home environment and read up on all the reviews. I'm currently in the market for a new TV myself and I went to check out the newer generations of DLP and was really floored- they can actually charge money for that? In all seriousness, I wouldn't take one for free. Very visible varriances in clarity from the center of the screen to the top or bottom, nasty screen door effect and it STILL has the rainbow effect(although that has gotten better), horrible contrast, no 'pop' at all- just plain terrible. I went to a specialty shop in the area, screens were all calibrated and thier viewing rooms are set up as a small series of living room type settings. The model I was looking at there was the Sammy 72A650, yeah it looked better then the monkey feces Mitsu's, but by my estimation is was more a matter of slightly better digestion
Filet mingon versus cow shit Yes, both of them are products of the same species, but I'd much prefer to stick to the former I loved the SXRDs(one of my buddies has one- I was very impressed, easily comparable to the current Kuros), if I could find one new now I'd buy it. As it stands, probably end up going with the Kuros, out of all the different TVs I checked out the very best DLP couldn't hang with WalMart clearenced TVs of any other technology, it is truly shocking how bad they are.
The only thing I saw that DLPs have going for them- and I do mean the only thing- is size. In every other way they are just garbage displays and I was being quite serious that I wouldn't want one for free.
LCDs PQ certainly isn't that great, but far beyond that of DLPs(I'd say the poorest WalMart LCDs are a bit better then top tier Samsung DLPs, obviously XBR8 is in a very different league, but it also costs significantly more). The XBR8 actually did fairly well versus the plasmas, although it still couldn't touch the Kuros when it came down to the real stress tests(multiple shades of black in particular, XBR8 smoked any LCD I've seen by a long shot, but not the plasmas). Plasmas seem to have a rather decisive edge overall atm, sure the XBR8 is a great example of LCD technology pushed to its current limits, but it still came up short of plasmas costing a fraction of the money. Problem with plasmas is mainly too much light atm(which DLPs also have) and despite the enormous progress, I wouldn't want a plasma that was going to display static images for too long(the latest sets have vastly reduced IR issues, but I still would hesitate if the display was going to see, say, excessive gaming).
Filet mingon versus cow shit
Yes, both of them are products of the same species, but I'd much prefer to stick to the former I loved the SXRDs(one of my buddies has one- I was very impressed, easily comparable to the current Kuros), if I could find one new now I'd buy it. As it stands, probably end up going with the Kuros, out of all the different TVs I checked out the very best DLP couldn't hang with WalMart clearenced TVs of any other technology, it is truly shocking how bad they are.The only thing I saw that DLPs have going for them- and I do mean the only thing- is size. In every other way they are just garbage displays and I was being quite serious that I wouldn't want one for free.
LCDs PQ certainly isn't that great, but far beyond that of DLPs(I'd say the poorest WalMart LCDs are a bit better then top tier Samsung DLPs, obviously XBR8 is in a very different league, but it also costs significantly more). The XBR8 actually did fairly well versus the plasmas, although it still couldn't touch the Kuros when it came down to the real stress tests(multiple shades of black in particular, XBR8 smoked any LCD I've seen by a long shot, but not the plasmas). Plasmas seem to have a rather decisive edge overall atm, sure the XBR8 is a great example of LCD technology pushed to its current limits, but it still came up short of plasmas costing a fraction of the money. Problem with plasmas is mainly too much light atm(which DLPs also have) and despite the enormous progress, I wouldn't want a plasma that was going to display static images for too long(the latest sets have vastly reduced IR issues, but I still would hesitate if the display was going to see, say, excessive gaming).
i would say me and about 5000 other people over at avs forums would have to disagree with your thoughts on dlp tech. did you get to play with the setup on the dlp sets? i can honestly say i have not seen an lcd screen in any store that i thought looked better than the 61a750. i have not had the chance to check out any panny plasmas though, i hear they are great.
That's about as ass-backwards wrong as you can get. If you truly think that any LCD is better than even the top DLP's, then you are the only person probably on the planet that thinks that.
Nobody that's done much comparison shopping/testing thinks that.
The LED DLP's are pretty much on par with the best LCD's. Size isn't the only thing they have going for them.
Agreed. The latest DLPs are very nice and if you still see rainbows then stop taking LSD.
If said it many times in this thread - DLP is no plasma, but it comes close. Not close enough IMHO, but for the price and actually enjoying HDTV like you should (display size) to dismiss it based on "pop" means you don't know what a quality display is.
Perhaps I should brush up on my signal theory a bit more so I can learn what a quality display is then, I used 'pop' as I did to simplify the overall issues, but I guess I can get into a bit more detail.
The individual pixels being reflected do not have enough luminance to handle the pitch adjacent to them relative to the surrounding pixels resulting in an image with profoundly reduced sharpness and not unlike what signals used to look like prior to comb filters.
Screen uniformity is horrific, watching a DLP and any other display show an image being panned side by side brings into sharp contrast the serious issues, corner to corner being particularly nasty- while more serious displays exhibit a smoothly transitioning image the color tone of the DLPs will shift several times as will the brightness and contrast of the image entirely dependant on where on the screen it is.
Colors lack the brightness of any other display, they are very pale and washed out compared to any other display technology.
Color gradiations are very poor, as poor as the weakest LCD display that I have seen currently on the market(Westinghouse).
Overall brightness of the display is very poor, certainly much weaker then plasmas which compounds all of the other issues mentioned(except color gradiation).
When you combine those elements together, you get what is commonly referred to as less 'pop'.
Not at all, one of my good friends is also in the market and we spent a lot of time going over TVs together, besides the SXRD he was chuckling at how bad the DLPs were also. He is on a much tighter budget then I am(his wife is a bit stricter
) but decided that a 46" plasma or LCD were well worth the price premium over a much larger DLP due to the enormous differences in PQ. My wife has also been with me to 'audition' several different displays and while ultimately she tends to trust my choices in these matters, one thing she made very clear to me was that a DLP was't an option, for the same reasons I'm talking about. I actually have not met a single person IRL who thinks DLPs should be compared to any of the other technologies due to the significantly lowe PQ they offer.I would love to see the person who thinks any DLP is remotely close to the XBR8 and hear them explain how, that comes across as rather comical honestly.
Normal viewing for a person with average vision it won't. That said, THX viewing distance with 20/20 or better you will without a doubt notice the difference, without much of a problem either- even on 40" displays, from THX viewing distances you can easily see the difference.
BenSkywalker,
I can appreciate your discern. My only complaint about the samsung DLP is gamma and overall contrast which are easily fixed in the user menus. I think I made that clear in a post I made here about being very impressed with it to replace my CRT and owning many other HDTVs.
But "pop" is something reserved for "exagerated". Colors are not supposed to be bright, they are supposed to be deep and true. Guess we'll just have to disagree.
I can appreciate your discern. My only complaint about the samsung DLP is gamma and overall contrast which are easily fixed in the user menus. I think I made that clear in a post I made here about being very impressed with it to replace my CRT and owning many other HDTVs.
But "pop" is something reserved for "exagerated". Colors are not supposed to be bright, they are supposed to be deep and true. Guess we'll just have to disagree.
Judging a TV in a store, where they all have the default settings, doesn't let you form an accurate opinion. I'd agree that LCD's will "pop" more in the stores, as everything is turned up to full lightsaber mode.
But after calibration, and in a better environment and with a better source than one split out to 50 TV's, there is very little difference. There is certainly no "enormous" difference in PQ. If there was, we'd have read about it in the various publications. From what I've seen, they've been pretty much positive about the LED DLP sets.
What I don't like about LCD's is the "smearing" that you see when the camera pans, such as in sporting events. DLP's just kill the LCD's in this aspect, even the 120hz models.
But after calibration, and in a better environment and with a better source than one split out to 50 TV's, there is very little difference. There is certainly no "enormous" difference in PQ. If there was, we'd have read about it in the various publications. From what I've seen, they've been pretty much positive about the LED DLP sets.
What I don't like about LCD's is the "smearing" that you see when the camera pans, such as in sporting events. DLP's just kill the LCD's in this aspect, even the 120hz models.
Exactly. If you actually care about image fidelity, most of those points he made are basically worthless. If you want something that looks oh so colorful with extra (read: added) sharpness when you pop it into "vivid" mode, sure, go with an LCD. People who care about seeing the source material in a way that is even vaguely true to it will still be considering DLPs.
Brightness issues with DLPs are overblown - some of the initial LED DLPs had some issues there, but they were fixed soon after. Again, if you're dialing up your brightness to torch, you've got serious problems (I say this as someone who usually puts his LCD's brightness WAY down).
A friend of mine has a Mitsubishi 67" LCD. It looks absolutely amazing, bulbs be danged.
Besides, laser projectors should remedy many of the problems.
Besides, laser projectors should remedy many of the problems.
I can only assume that you have some sort of prescription glasses that have a screen mesh on them to aid you in seeing things that way? There isn't enough 'pop' to overcome the display surface, forget anything over the top.
Well, I am not sure Pixar would agree that Cars was supposed to be a film noir project, and deep and true colors need MUCH better gradiation then any DLPs I have seen. They fall down in fine detail gradiation versus anything resembling a decent display. Sure, they are better then some PC TN displays, but that is saying very little. Yes, Cars is most certainly one of my top choices for testing out a display, weaker sets fall down trying to display the colors(Itallian Job, scene in the alps, good one for seeing uniformity- Iron Man night time flight scene for seeing how badly a set will crunch blacks).
The specialty shop I checked does full THX calibration on all displays and sound systems in shop, all of their(very comfy
) recliners are set at optimal height and distance per THX certifications also(the higher end purchases, like the Pioneer Elite line they do in home delivery, setup and calibration gratis also). It isn't like I'm going into BB or CC and dealing with the drooling primates and their horrible spliced out feed of a terribly bad signal improperly hooked up with all sets in full torch mode.Actually from what I saw the difference is much larger the better the calibration.
I have seen them say they are OK at what they are supposed to be, never have I seen anyone put them in the league of having equal PQ to the other display technologies. If they truly were, why would anyone pay significantly more for a considerably smaller display?
Alas, this is when I see the rainbows come in, and it makes me sick(literally). It is much better now then it used to be, I only needed to glance at the earlier models and it gave me an instant headache. Not saying these type of issues only crop up on DLPs, Sony's current S, V and even Z series have a 'snowing' effect going that I find completely unacceptable also(XBR series doesn't exhibit at all however). Problem is, I have never seen a DLP where I don't notice the raindows, it's just a whole hell of a lot less of an issue now then it used to be.
Plasmas smoke LCDs in that aspect, possible exception being the XBR8.
Not likely. Calibrate them all to perfect standards and sit back and watch. I honestly don't understand how people could so much as imply that any DLP can come remotely close to a Kuros at accurately reproducing source material, it just blows my mind.
Display I'm typing this on my brightness is at 0. gamma is 0.7. I don't like bright displays at all, I like accurate ones though. I'd honestly have this display set darker still if it weren't for the fact that any lower and the individual pixels don't emit enough light to remove the screen door effect(which is the problem DLPs have, even when they are horribly set to full torch mode).
There's no rainbow effect on the LED DLP's.
Not going to bother quoting and replying to that convoluted mess above, though.
You see what you see, and buy your TV's accordingly. I don't think anyone is saying that a 1500 dollar DLP is as good as a 5000 dollar Pioneer plasma, but you can't get a better BIG television for the money than a DLP. And the LED's DO look pretty darn good.
Not going to bother quoting and replying to that convoluted mess above, though.
You see what you see, and buy your TV's accordingly. I don't think anyone is saying that a 1500 dollar DLP is as good as a 5000 dollar Pioneer plasma, but you can't get a better BIG television for the money than a DLP. And the LED's DO look pretty darn good.
That's a good marketing line, unfortunately reality doesn't agree. The LEDs may be faster and exhibit the issue a lot less, but it is most certainly still there. 3 LEDs flashing operate the same as the color wheel, they just do it faster(reducing the effect, not eliminating it). Sin City displays it quite nicely for a good test. Sure, some people's vision is such that they can't even see it on the old wheel models(where it was utterly terrible), the newer models it only seems to be an issue with lots of movement to my eyes(may still be there all the time, if it is, my eyes aren't good enough to discern it).
Cnet Review 61A750
benskywalker, even cnet seems to disagree with everything you say about dlp's. it didnt get on the cnet top 10 tv list for nothing. OP, if you have the chance, go see a led dlp somewhere. theres no way in hell any cheap wallmart screen come close to the quality of this screen.
benskywalker, even cnet seems to disagree with everything you say about dlp's. it didnt get on the cnet top 10 tv list for nothing. OP, if you have the chance, go see a led dlp somewhere. theres no way in hell any cheap wallmart screen come close to the quality of this screen.
I am also 20/10, good metric for viewing static objects, not the greatest measure of motion though
Actually not quite- the only thing they really disagreed with me on was uniformity(and oddly enough, they use the exact same scene that I suggested
) other then that I take CNet's views for what they are worth. You know according to CNet you can't see the difference between 720p and 1080p even on a 50" display? They stated that the set could produce accurate colors- what I have been saying is that the displays lack the luminence to deal with the effective pixel pitch, or in laymans terms- they have massive screen door issues. I can't tell what colors it is supposed to be producing because I see too much non color due to how dull the sets are.They rated a smaller LCD that cost three times as much higher(KDL-55XBR8). Paying three times as much for a smaller LCD display was worthy versus the absolute king of the hill DLP. Not that that means much, as mentioned previously- CNet isn't much of an authority on PQ.
I will provide a link to a thread where the people I consider to be far more authorative then CNet who like the TV- this post in particular. This illustrates quite nicely uniformity issues. Even with a static blue background you can very easily see what I'm talking about with screen uniformity. There is an oval viewing area in the center that is clearly brighter, sides fading off with the corners just plain bad. The fact that this is clearly visible in a static picture displaying a plain background while CNet raved about it should really sum up how much faith you can put in CNet when it comes to PQ
I got one (Samsung HL61A750) from Best Buy last weekend for $940. $999 to match Conn's, plus another $60 off for the "10% of the difference" BB pricematch policy.
I'm very impressed, and 61" is HUGE. My 42" Panny Plasma looks like a postage stamp now.
LOL!
Screendoor? Do you even know what that is? I can put my nose on the screen and there is no screen door. There are no mirrors either. Most everything you have been posting is simply just not true at all.
I can slap a resolution pattern up and get full 1920x1080. Maybe you've just been reading too much stuff without any first hand information?
Screendoor? Do you even know what that is? I can put my nose on the screen and there is no screen door. There are no mirrors either. Most everything you have been posting is simply just not true at all.
I can slap a resolution pattern up and get full 1920x1080. Maybe you've just been reading too much stuff without any first hand information?
Actually I do, I have studied signal theory quite a bit in fact, particularly the elements that deal with display issues their root causes and how to address them, have you?
Are you blind then? I can see the screen door on my PC monitor from about a foot away- further away then that on even the best LCD TVs, and DLPs are considerably more pronounced(part of that is simply a function of the larger pixels, but it goes beyond that). Every display technology we currently have exhibits it at some point, my issue is I notice it under normal viewing with DLPs, some people don't obviously.
As a friendly piece of advice, you may want to learn the minimum basics before you debate a technology on a tech forum, odds are fairly high that people are going to know what they are talking about, you, it appears, don't have any idea. I try not to make assumptions about other people, but stating there are no mirrors when it is pretty much the entirety of the technology you are talking about does raise some questions about the validity of your perspective.
Why wouldn't you be able to? What have I said in any way whatsoever that indicates that they aren't running at their stated resolution? I haven't come close to hinting that they aren't. Admittedly, I have not run a PC test pattern on them to check for overscan issues, but I have not ever questioned that they are running the resolution which they claim in any way whatsoever.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 21K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter