Latest CrossfireX lays the smak on SLI

[Will Robinson]

HardOCP tests HD5750 and 5770 against GTX450.
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/09/14/nvidia_geforce_gts_450_sli_video_card_review/9

"The times they are a changin"

NVIDIA is behind this generation folks, there is no denying that. In the 20"-22" display size market, the market that NVIDIA explains the GTS 450 is targeting, there has never been a clearer "winner," and that is the ATI Radeon HD 5770.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Damn, there's a first time for everything.

Too bad for AMD this is only relevant for 57x0 vs GTS 450. GTX 460 still wups 5850 in dual-GPU performance.
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/09/13/nv_gtx_460_1gb_sli_vs_ati_hd_5850_cfx_redux/

 

[extra]

Damn, there's a first time for everything.

Too bad for AMD this is only relevant for 57x0 vs GTS 450. GTX 460 still wups 5850 in dual-GPU performance.
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/09/13/nv_gtx_460_1gb_sli_vs_ati_hd_5850_cfx_redux/

Hmm, the article says the exact opposite. It says that the 5850 crossfire performance is now as good or better than 460sli performance. But two 460's are cheaper than two 5850's, so it makes more sense to get two 460's.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Hmm, the article says the exact opposite. It says that the 5850 crossfire performance is now as good or better than 460sli performance. But two 460's are cheaper than two 5850's, so it makes more sense to get two 460's.

Sorry, I should have included, "in value".

Given, though, that the 5850 is a significantly faster card than the GTX 460, Xfire scaling is still not as good as SLI. We can only hope that ATI keeps improving.

 

[Silverforce11]

A 5850 is only $20 more expensive than gtx460. Two = $40 more expensive, total price diff, <10&#37;. Total perf diff, 8%. Basically get either setup, both are acceptable price/perf wise. With NV you get CUDA, with ATI you get less power use and gimped-CUDA aka Stream.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

A 5850 is only $20 more expensive than gtx460. Two = $40 more expensive, total price diff, <10%. Total perf diff, 8%. Basically get either setup, both are acceptable price/perf wise. With NV you get CUDA, with ATI you get less power use and gimped-CUDA aka Stream.

Just going by Newegg prices, I'm seeing $43 difference between the cheapest 5850 and GTX 460 1 GB. So that's over 20%.

 

[RussianSensation]

A 5850 is only $20 more expensive than gtx460. Two = $40 more expensive, total price diff, <10&#37;. Total perf diff, 8%.

haha. Maybe in a dream ATI-only world.

GTX460 768mb with reference cooler - $140
Gigabyte GTX460 1GB with aftermarket cooler - $200
XFX 5850 - $243

So $86 price difference for 2 x 1GB cards and $206 price difference for 2 x 768mb cards.

Thanks for pointing out the 8% "total performance difference". Of course DX11 performance doesn't matter when ATi is losing ah?

 

[notty22]

Some thoughts, or excuses
Hocp is sort of doing the exact opposite of when they showcased the gtx 460 sli against the 5970, 5870, 5850 crossfire articles.
There they used a factory overclocked 460@820 when the reference is @675.
These can be had for 10-20 dollars more and I understand why they consider that valid.
But here they used 450's@785 when they could have used factory o/c models for 10 dollars more like this @925 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-394-_-Product
I guarantee that it would have beaten the 5750 rig and at least tied the 5770.
As shown here http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTS_450_SLI/23.html

Some comments about the gts 450, imo. I've read that Nvidia recommends testing at 1680x1050. Thats the target market for it, and probably early drivers are tuned for that resolution. A more powerful card can be had for 30 dollars more , the gtx 460-768 for gamers at 1080p
Anyone think that Nvidia would win in temperature ?
Proof the cards can be clocked higher

 

[TurtleCrusher]

/Lawnchair

/Popcorn

On a serious note, CF and SLI seem like a waste of power and money still. A single card solution trumps any CF or SLI solution imho because of hassles in configs, less driver fixes, crowded case, etc.

 

[SlowSpyder]

5750's and 5770's overclock as well.

Temperature doesn't mean anything, it's still putting out more heat though I don't think it's so much more it matters - I just wanted to pont out that the actual GPU temperature is just a function of the GPU's heat output and the cooler. A GTX480 at 75C s still putting out a lot more heat than a 5870 at 85C.

 

[notty22]

/Lawnchair

/Popcorn

On a serious note, CF and SLI seem like a waste of power and money still. A single card solution trumps any CF or SLI solution imho because of hassles in configs, less driver fixes, crowded case, etc.

Surely ,couple exceptions. The user gets to buy one card today, the other at a later time for expenses. (Years ago,I actually bought custom wheels like that, so I could pay cash)
Nvidia can do surround , only with two gpu's.

 

[Silverforce11]

haha. Maybe in a dream ATI-only world.

GTX460 768mb with reference cooler - $140
Gigabyte GTX460 1GB with aftermarket cooler - $200
XFX 5850 - $243

So $86 price difference for 2 x 1GB cards and $206 price difference for 2 x 768mb cards.

Thanks for pointing out the 8% "total performance difference". Of course DX11 performance doesn't matter when ATi is losing ah?

Read the review?
BC2, AvP and Metro are dx11.

 

[OCGuy]

Sorry, those cards seem like OEM cards to me. I dont know that anything they do can be considered laying the "smak" on anything else.

You should never go multi-gpu with such a weak card. If drivers fail you (See: AMD in BF:BC2) you are stuck with only one poor performance card.

 

[Grooveriding]

Some thoughts, or excuses
Hocp is sort of doing the exact opposite of when they showcased the gtx 460 sli against the 5970, 5870, 5850 crossfire articles.
There they used a factory overclocked 460@820 when the reference is @675.
These can be had for 10-20 dollars more and I understand why they consider that valid.
But here they used 450's@785 when they could have used factory o/c models for 10 dollars more like this @925 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-394-_-Product
I guarantee that it would have beaten the 5750 rig and at least tied the 5770.
As shown here http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTS_450_SLI/23.html

Some comments about the gts 450, imo. I've read that Nvidia recommends testing at 1680x1050. Thats the target market for it, and probably early drivers are tuned for that resolution. A more powerful card can be had for 30 dollars more , the gtx 460-768 for gamers at 1080p
Anyone think that Nvidia would win in temperature ?
Proof the cards can be clocked higher

I'm not clear on what you are trying to say here ? Those benchmarks don't show any 5770 crossfire numbers. All they show is the 5770 being a faster card than the 450 as we all know.

The hardocp benchmark of 5870CF vs GTX460 SLI was retracted by hardocp and they agreed as many people were saying that their benchmarks were inaccurate and flawed due to drivers.

When the benchmarks were rerun, 5870CF won every single benchmark. Just to clarify that.

What is even the point of talking about GTS 450 SLI and 5770 CF imo. Mid-range cards are a poor choice to use in multi-gpu setups. I don't even think 460 SLI is worth it. Better to get a single GTX 480 or 5870 and get another later if you want to go multi-gpu.

 

[RussianSensation]

Read the review?

I have no problems with your original post of 5770 CF > GTS 450 SLI. 5770 CF = 5870 while GTS450 SLI = 470. Why would GTS450 SLI outperform 5770s in CF if a single GTS450 is slower than a single 5770?

The same cannot be said for GTX460 vs. 5850 because a single GTX460 overclocked to 800mhz+ is faster than a 5850. This explains why factory overclocked GTX460 SLI setup was faster than stock 5850s in CF. Notty22 pointed this out already

 

[notty22]

I'm not clear on what you are trying to say here ? Those benchmarks don't show any 5770 crossfire numbers. All they show is the 5770 being a faster card than the 450 as we all know.

The hardocp benchmark of 5870CF vs GTX460 SLI was retracted by hardocp and they agreed as many people were saying that their benchmarks were inaccurate and flawed due to drivers.

When the benchmarks were rerun, 5870CF won every single benchmark. Just to clarify that.

What is even the point of talking about GTS 450 SLI and 5770 CF imo. Mid-range cards are a poor choice to use in multi-gpu setups. I don't even think 460 SLI is worth it. Better to get a single GTX 480 or 5870 and get another later if you want to go multi-gpu.

The 5870 redux article you speak of tested three games.
It did not win all three, the 460sli combination 'won' Metro.
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/09/16/nv_gtx_460_1gb_sli_vs_ati_hd_5870_cfx_redux/3
Which makes the 460sli worth it ,imo. For 200 less dollars, they can compete with the competitors top single gpu cards. Maybe your jaded with the power of 480sli but there is a middle ground for performance. imho
ATI owners should be thankful for hocp bringing to light the crossfire problems they were introducing with driver revisions.
Why it lost so bad in the first comparisons.
http://hardocp.com/article/2010/08/09/geforce_gtx_460_1gb_sli_vs_radeon_hd_5870_cfx/

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Sorry, those cards seem like OEM cards to me. I dont know that anything they do can be considered laying the "smak" on anything else.

You should never go multi-gpu with such a weak card. If drivers fail you (See: AMD in BF:BC2) you are stuck with only one poor performance card.

I'm guessing that one of the OP's points is that Xfire is finally improving to near-SLI levels.

2x 5770's make a nice gfx subsystem - if you already have a 5770, that is. 5770 also Xfires well with a 5750, a good deal if you can get one really cheap.

@Grooveriding: I'm not a big fan of multi-GPU. That said, SLI'd GTX 460's blow the snot out of a GTX 480 from a fps/$ standpoint.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

I have no problems with your original post of 5770 CF > GTS 450 SLI. 5770 CF = 5870 while GTS450 SLI = 470. Why would GTS450 SLI outperform 5770s in CF if a single GTS450 is slower than a single 5770?

The same cannot be said for GTX460 vs. 5850 because a single GTX460 overclocked to 800mhz+ is faster than a 5850. This explains why factory overclocked GTX460 SLI setup was faster than stock 5850s in CF. Notty22 pointed this out already

You can overclock a 5850, too.

 

[Grooveriding]

I'm guessing that one of the OP's points is that Xfire is finally improving to near-SLI levels.

2x 5770's make a nice gfx subsystem - if you already have a 5770, that is. 5770 also Xfires well with a 5750, if you can get one really cheap.

@Grooveriding: I'm not a big fan of multi-GPU. That said, SLI'd GTX 460's blow the snot out of a GTX 480 from a fps/$ standpoint.

It's fairly subjective, they're about 20&#37; faster than a single 480 but with the drawbacks of multi-gpu.

There are drawbacks to SLI or Crossfire, notably driver issues, poor scaling, stuttering, micro-stutter(not to be confused with stuttering), twice the heat, twice the power consumption, cooling issues and more. I use multi-gpu, but don't think a 20% performance increase is worth it to take 460 SLI over a 480. A single 480 would be my preference in that situation.

In Canada I can get a 480 for $450 right now, and a 1GB 460 at the cheapest is maybe $200 and that is from a crappy vendor who RMA will be a PITA with if I have a problem. If I bought 2 EVGA 460s, the cost would be the same as a single 480.

Multi-gpu is great, but from my past experience, is best left to being done on flagship cards. IMO of course

SLI scales better than Crossfire depending on the situation. Which is why 460 SLI can deliver some decent numbers compared to 5870CF, but a single 460 on its own is a good deal slower than a 5870.

I hope AMD can improve their scaling with the upcoming 6 series. So I welcome news like this of them improving multi-gpu scaling. Their only weakness atm in performance from my perspective is Crossfire scaling. If we can get 150+% the performance of 480 SLI out of 6870 CF, that will pretty much be enough horsepower to run any game at its highest settings at my current resolution with a 60fps avg :thumbsup:

 

[golem]

HardOCP tests HD5750 and 5770 against GTX450.
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/09/14/nvidia_geforce_gts_450_sli_video_card_review/9

"The times they are a changin"

The cheapest 5770 on Newegg is about 125 AR and the cheapest gts 450 is about 105 (it is a special however)

More expensive cards should be faster than cheaper cards, whether in single card or xfire/sli mode.

 

[netxzero64]

You can overclock a 5850, too.

that's what a lot of people missed... they think the GTX 460 is so good that they forgot that it was running on an overclocked test.. while the 5850 sits with no sweat...

 

[imaheadcase]

Opinions on temperature with sli/crossfire are disregarded. Who builds a gaming system and cares about that. /rolls eyes

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

that's what a lot of people missed... they think the GTX 460 is so good that they forgot that it was running on an overclocked test.. while the 5850 sits with no sweat...

I think part of that problem is that folks look at what they can get from AMD Overdrive, and that's it. But if you use MSI Afterburner or some other program, 5850 can OC by 20-30%.

 

[Grooveriding]

Opinions on temperature with sli/crossfire are disregarded. Who builds a gaming system and cares about that. /rolls eyes

I never cared about it before, even up to owning 5870 CF. After going 480 SLI I started to care after I noticed sweat on my brow and that I was sitting in a cloud of hot air when I was gaming in an ACed home.

Not only that but the fans being a lot louder. This effect will likely continue to trickle down to most multi-gpu users as cards get hotter and suck more juice.

I still could care less about power consumption, not much of an environmentalist But when I started to consider going to watercooling after getting these 480s, something that never appealed to me, it was a good sign that these cards are just too hot.

Another feather the upcoming single-gpu AMD 6 series flagship could stick in its cap is being faster than a GTX 480 but using less power and not running as hot or as loud. Would be fairly impressive considering the GTX 480 has set a whole new bar for heat output in a video card. Without a custom fan profile you can see temperatures of 95-100C.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

The cheapest 5770 on Newegg is about 125 AR and the cheapest gts 450 is about 105 (it is a special however)

More expensive cards should be faster than cheaper cards, whether in single card or xfire/sli mode.

"Should be", but sometimes there are mitigating circumstances. You could pay more for features like DX11 vs DX10 support, special cooling solutions, etc.

I bought my Vapor-X 5770 2 weeks ago for $130/shipped, which at the time would have been a good price for a reference card. The fact that it runs very cool and very quiet - just about silent - is worth a premium for me.