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Largest US private coal company goes bankrupt

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Jhhnn said:
Meh. Electric vehicles offer no real improvement if the electricity is generated by burning fossil fuels. It may actually be worse from a total CO2 emission POV because of the inefficiency in converting one form of energy into another. It's burn fuel to create motion vs burn fuel to create electricity to create motion.
Click to expand...

But it IS anti O&G from a gas station perspective at least. So people get massive erections for it.

It's a lot like the paper straw and paper bag hard-on that people have.... nevermind the fact that it results in my CO2 production than plastic equivalents, it makes them feeeeeeeeeeeeeel better.
 
Fanatical Meat said:
You know they could put some effort into their careers and maybe move a little bit.

Rare Earths - Wyoming Mining Association

www.wyomingmining.org www.wyomingmining.org

But nope, they fought all offers of assistance, so fuck them. This is what they voted for. Elections have consequences.
Click to expand...

Hope the same thing happens to you as you fight tooth and nail to defend your industry and skills heh.

You know, like how the left wing media kids got butt-hurt when it became an internet meme sensation to tell them Learn to code when they get canned because there is no money there? Ahhh that was beautiful.
 
Jhhnn said:
Meh. Electric vehicles offer no real improvement if the electricity is generated by burning fossil fuels. It may actually be worse from a total CO2 emission POV because of the inefficiency in converting one form of energy into another. It's burn fuel to create motion vs burn fuel to create electricity to create motion.
Click to expand...

Whoa, why so glum chum?
First, we are working the converting our electrical generation over. Slow, yes. But with the modern price of solar....

Second, the sheer pollution from the combustion engine has a "huge" impact on our health and intelligence. Forget CO2 for a moment, we'll rid ourselves of a constant source of literal poison. A generation after Electric vehicles take over, our IQ might take a leap up back towards where it should be.
 
Jhhnn said:
What happens to those numbers in the winter when battery power is used to heat the interior rather than waste heat from an ICE? What happens to vehicle range?

Don't get me wrong- I'm not against EV's at all. I just think we need to account for unintended consequences.
Click to expand...
once we start to account for unintended consequences, EVs destroy ICE vehicles.
 
Jaskalas said:
Whoa, why so glum chum?
First, we are working the converting our electrical generation over. Slow, yes. But with the modern price of solar....

Second, the sheer pollution from the combustion engine has a "huge" impact on our health and intelligence. Forget CO2 for a moment, we'll rid ourselves of a constant source of literal poison. A generation after Electric vehicles take over, our IQ might take a leap up back towards where it should be.
Click to expand...

I just try to keep it real. And, uhh, given that the air is cleaner in rural areas I'm having trouble getting your second paragraph to jibe with Trumpism...
 
Jaskalas said:
Whoa, why so glum chum?
First, we are working the converting our electrical generation over. Slow, yes. But with the modern price of solar....

Second, the sheer pollution from the combustion engine has a "huge" impact on our health and intelligence. Forget CO2 for a moment, we'll rid ourselves of a constant source of literal poison. A generation after Electric vehicles take over, our IQ might take a leap up back towards where it should be.
Click to expand...

I just try to keep it real. And, uhh, given that the air is cleaner in rural areas I'm having trouble getting your second paragraph to jibe with Trumpism...
 
Jhhnn said:
What happens to those numbers in the winter when battery power is used to heat the interior rather than waste heat from an ICE? What happens to vehicle range?

Don't get me wrong- I'm not against EV's at all. I just think we need to account for unintended consequences.
Click to expand...

@Jhhnn thinks like a consumer and not a fanboi. Most folks don't give a rats ass about the power source for their products, they just want the damn thing to work for all their use cases with minimal if any deviations from their expectations given an incumbent alternative. If that's electric motor then great, if it's an ICE engine that's great too. The way to get them to switch over is to keep on innovating and improving the electric powered products until they are better than the ICE alternative. You'll never get there if you try to force the issue too hard and stick folks with products they feel don't meet their needs. If you do then you'll set back your timeline for switchover by a generation or more when people completely reject new technology that fails to meet some of their key needs and expectations.
 
Jhhnn said:
What happens to those numbers in the winter when battery power is used to heat the interior rather than waste heat from an ICE? What happens to vehicle range?

Don't get me wrong- I'm not against EV's at all. I just think we need to account for unintended consequences.
Click to expand...

Imagine all the energy we could save if you’d learn to stop double and triple posting😉
 
Jhhnn said:
What happens to those numbers in the winter when battery power is used to heat the interior rather than waste heat from an ICE? What happens to vehicle range?

Don't get me wrong- I'm not against EV's at all. I just think we need to account for unintended consequences.
Click to expand...

Range goes down in cold weather obviously though ICE engines also incur fuel efficiency penalties in those conditions as well. Presuming proper charing infrastructure was in place it really wouldn't be a major problem.
 
hal2kilo said:
About a year an a half old, but the original inventor of the lithium battery has new technology he's working on. Solid state batteries.
news.utexas.edu

Lithium-Ion Battery Inventor Introduces New Technology for Fast-Charging, Noncombustible Batteries

John Goodenough and his team have developed the first all-solid-state battery cells that could lead to safer, faster-charging, longer-lasting rechargeable batteries.
news.utexas.edu
Hell, I'm a dreamer when it comes to possible alternate energy technologies.

Portal - LENR Forum

Portal
www.lenr-forum.com www.lenr-forum.com
Click to expand...

Many people are working on solid state batteries right now and other new battery tech. Hopefully something pans out soon because we desperately need batteries with higher energy density.

His name is "John Goodenough?" LOL Reminds me of a restaurant near me called "OK Chinese Food."
 
K1052 said:
Sure there's been progress but a half decade of cheap gas sent everybody in to buy the least efficient vehicles they could find which is more than working against overall technological gains in efficiency wrt emissions.
Click to expand...

What I was more responding to was the original prompt that got us on the electric vehicle debate. We don't need to convert consumers to electric vehicles to meet the standards that Trump has been axing. I definitely agree that progress could have been made years ago but was not a priority then.
 
glenn1 said:
@Jhhnn thinks like a consumer and not a fanboi. Most folks don't give a rats ass about the power source for their products, they just want the damn thing to work for all their use cases with minimal if any deviations from their expectations given an incumbent alternative. If that's electric motor then great, if it's an ICE engine that's great too. The way to get them to switch over is to keep on innovating and improving the electric powered products until they are better than the ICE alternative. You'll never get there if you try to force the issue too hard and stick folks with products they feel don't meet their needs. If you do then you'll set back your timeline for switchover by a generation or more when people completely reject new technology that fails to meet some of their key needs and expectations.
Click to expand...
this kind of thinking turned the 80 years we had to make serious changes into 10.
 
woolfe9998 said:
Many people are working on solid state batteries right now and other new battery tech. Hopefully something pans out soon because we desperately need batteries with higher energy density.

His name is "John Goodenough?" LOL Reminds me of a restaurant near me called "OK Chinese Food."
Click to expand...
I remember reading about John Goodenough before.
He won the Nobel Prize this year for Chemistry with two others for his work
on the Lithium battery. Oldest ever to win a Nobel Prize
www.nobelprize.org

Nobel Prize in Chemistry

www.nobelprize.org www.nobelprize.org
Pretty amazing individual that is still a professor at UT at the age of 97.
en.wikipedia.org

John B. Goodenough - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
esquared said:
I remember reading about John Goodenough before.
He won the Nobel Prize this year for Chemistry with two others for his work
on the Lithium battery. Oldest ever to win a Nobel Prize
www.nobelprize.org

Nobel Prize in Chemistry

www.nobelprize.org www.nobelprize.org
Pretty amazing individual that is still a professor at UT at the age of 97.
en.wikipedia.org

John B. Goodenough - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...

Well well. Then he should change his name to John Amazinglyawesome or at least John Wellaboveaverage.
 
Jhhnn said:
Meh. Electric vehicles offer no real improvement if the electricity is generated by burning fossil fuels. It may actually be worse from a total CO2 emission POV because of the inefficiency in converting one form of energy into another. It's burn fuel to create motion vs burn fuel to create electricity to create motion.
Click to expand...

Interesting point, but I would argue that large generating stations are more efficient then your average combustion engine so it is probably a wash.
 
woolfe9998 said:
Many people are working on solid state batteries right now and other new battery tech. Hopefully something pans out soon because we desperately need batteries with higher energy density.

His name is "John Goodenough?" LOL Reminds me of a restaurant near me called "OK Chinese Food."
Click to expand...
In New London CT, there was a restaurant called The Hygienic Restaurant. What was funnier was that was where the ladies of the evening used to hang out to "service" The USS Fulton Submarine Tender.
 
glenn1 said:
@Jhhnn thinks like a consumer and not a fanboi. Most folks don't give a rats ass about the power source for their products, they just want the damn thing to work for all their use cases with minimal if any deviations from their expectations given an incumbent alternative. If that's electric motor then great, if it's an ICE engine that's great too. The way to get them to switch over is to keep on innovating and improving the electric powered products until they are better than the ICE alternative. You'll never get there if you try to force the issue too hard and stick folks with products they feel don't meet their needs. If you do then you'll set back your timeline for switchover by a generation or more when people completely reject new technology that fails to meet some of their key needs and expectations.
Click to expand...

Not quite. I think we need to care & that we need to act to build a better future. Burning fossil fuel is how humans built civilization. I don't want that to be the thing that destroys it.
 
s0me0nesmind1 said:
Having to charge a battery for a matter of hours isn't comparible and doesn't work for the majority of MIDDLE AND LOWER CLASS Americans that need to get somewhere on the spot - and until there is something like battery swap-out the concept of refilling a tank at a station in less than 5 minutes will continue to be king.
Click to expand...
As an EV owner, I don't really agree. Sure, it's certainly far easier to fill up with liquid fuel rather than use fast charging stations, which is something that we need to work on. Although, I'd argue that the bigger problem is the lack of dedicated charging solutions for people in rental housing. However, I see this problem likely being solved as the vehicles become more prevalent as that gives landlords an incentive to provide a solution.

Now, I don't think it's as bad as you suspect due to the nature of cars being charged daily. It's not that the car needs to be charged daily, but rather that it's recommended to do so. Fortunately, with the prevalence of smartphones and other devices, the idea of plugging your device in every day is not foreign at all. You also get the nice advantage of not having to go to the gas station, which I can tell you is rather nice.

I see EVs being one of the important technology drivers in the next decade or so. That's largely because better batteries (higher capacity, faster charging, lighter, etc.) make the EV better. However, the important part is whether any of that new technology can be ported over to other areas. For example, can we eventually use that battery technology improvement in our smartphones?
 
Well damn, how are Trump voting regressives supposed to get black lung and keep destroying water and air quality now?

Hard to feel sorry about this when the writing has been on the wall for years.

Trump can take federal workers/contractors hostage before Xmas, inflict horrendous financial hardship on farmers and fisherman, and lie through his teeth while he screws the middle class out of a tax cut. Don't like getting screwed? Probably should have voted for Hillary. She had employment and education plans for the region. Voters decided to instead back the lying racist criminal selling bullshit about clean coal, so if they want someone to blame for this predicament I say go look in a mirror.
 
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