Largest US private coal company goes bankrupt

[Jhhnn]

Meh. Electric vehicles offer no real improvement if the electricity is generated by burning fossil fuels. It may actually be worse from a total CO2 emission POV because of the inefficiency in converting one form of energy into another. It's burn fuel to create motion vs burn fuel to create electricity to create motion.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

I only have one thing to say on this.

 

[Commodus]

Except you know... Charging stations aren't everywhere. You're insinuating that
1) Everyone can charge at home in a reasonable time. This definitely isn't true - especially because majority of homes don't have proper wiring.
2) Charging stations are incredibly scarce in non-affluent places.
3) You assume everyone has multiple vehicles - anyone with a brain knows for lower and middle class this often isn't true.

Take a step outside of your liberal affluent bubbles and try to put your shoes into a rural (or urban even) lower middle class citizen - You know - the people that make up the majority of this country?

Those are issues, but those will also change. More states need to mandate EV-friendly wiring in new houses (California already does, I recall). EV charging networks are expanding. And the costs and range of EVs are improving to the point where they can be your primary car in a middle class home if you have reliable access to charging. As I mentioned earlier, my brother drives a current-gen Leaf.

We shouldn't expect everyone to switch to EVs in short order, but it should be seen as a definite, achievable goal. Heck, at this point it's practically an inevitability, it's just a question of when.

 

[dainthomas]

I'm sure there are... such as...

mining rare minerals needed for solar panels and Li-Ion batteries... in China...
constructing solar panels.... in China...
constructing batteries....in China....

Oh I guess we might have some construction of windmills, so I guess you have that. I'm sure that can totally make-up for the engineering and geological jobs of related to lost mining jobs in the US....

Clinton had a plan to address that. But gaslit miners voted for the conman game show host anyway.

 

[Jaskalas]

If only there was a candidate who warned about this in 2016 election:

Of course Trump trash only read the bolded part, and now it's being taken out to the dumpster

First of all, these people are super paranoid about BIG GOV coming for them. And then here comes a flat out declaration of war (the bolded). After that enters their heads, NOTHING else is going to matter. Nothing you say will matter. You have to approach them differently. Not start off by saying (I) am taking your jobs away. It needs to be explained that their jobs are already dying, and that we are here to help.

The context derived from how you frame it is of VITAL importance, or one cannot ever hope to bridge the partisan divide.

 

[K1052]

Except you know... Charging stations aren't everywhere. You're insinuating that
1) Everyone can charge at home in a reasonable time. This definitely isn't true - especially because majority of homes don't have proper wiring.
2) Charging stations are incredibly scarce in non-affluent places.
3) You assume everyone has multiple vehicles - anyone with a brain knows for lower and middle class this often isn't true.

Take a step outside of your liberal affluent bubbles and try to put your shoes into a rural (or urban even) lower middle class citizen - You know - the people that make up the majority of this country?

Alright since we're off of the time issue an on to the infrastructure issue that is progress heh.

1) Even at 12A and 120V from a household socket anybody with a carport, driveway, or a garage would be able to put on roughly 4 miles per hour of charging resulting in 30-40 miles overnight which covers the average daily commute. Of course I'd prefer that people have Level 2 EVSEs instead but yes that does cost money to install in most cases. My preference would be for a program between the government and utilities that subsidizes the installation of these.

2) I don't argue that existing outside of home infra is insufficient (but improving). Commercial and multi-unit construction should require this by code. A similar program to above would provide for retrofits of existing parking facilities. The deployment of fast charging infrastructure (50kw and above) at places where 20-30 minutes are spent and turnover assured (retail and food).

3) I have not made that assumption.

I'm not sure what the interest is in perpetuating the idea that this is a class war issue. Dumping most ICE transportation would pay huge dividends to the lower economic strata by removing enormous amounts of pollution they are subject to because of where they often have to live.

 

[K1052]

First of all, these people are super paranoid about BIG GOV coming for them. And then here comes a flat out declaration of war (the bolded). After that enters their heads, NOTHING else is going to matter. Nothing you say will matter. You have to approach them differently. Not start off by saying (I) am taking your jobs away. It needs to be explained that their jobs are already dying, and that we are here to help.

The context derived from how you frame it is of VITAL importance, or one cannot ever hope to bridge the partisan divide.

I actually think it was more about the messenger than the message. FDR rivaled Jesus as a figure of importance a lot of these places and support for the actual concepts is pretty high though the cultural food fight that the GOP has instigated is doing some damage on that front.

 

[Brainonska511]

Meh. Electric vehicles offer no real improvement if the electricity is generated by burning fossil fuels. It may actually be worse from a total CO2 emission POV because of the inefficiency in converting one form of energy into another. It's burn fuel to create motion vs burn fuel to create electricity to create motion.

That is completely false. Electric vehicles, even when accounting for electricity generation are far cleaner than ICE vehicles. Plus, power plants are far more efficient than ICEs.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I'm sure there are... such as...

mining rare minerals needed for solar panels and Li-Ion batteries... in China...
constructing solar panels.... in China...
constructing batteries....in China....

Oh I guess we might have some construction of windmills, so I guess you have that. I'm sure that can totally make-up for the engineering and geological jobs of related to lost mining jobs in the US....

You know they could put some effort into their careers and maybe move a little bit.

Rare Earths

Northeast Wyoming is home to one of the highest grade rare earths deposits in North America, currently under development. Rare earth elements (REE) are naturally occurring materials with unique pro…

www.wyomingmining.org

But nope, they fought all offers of assistance, so fuck them. This is what they voted for. Elections have consequences.

 

[Commodus]

Meh. Electric vehicles offer no real improvement if the electricity is generated by burning fossil fuels. It may actually be worse from a total CO2 emission POV because of the inefficiency in converting one form of energy into another. It's burn fuel to create motion vs burn fuel to create electricity to create motion.

That's not strictly true -- I'm trying to dig them up, but I've seen (credible) studies that show it can still be a net positive. As it is, with the US shifting steadily toward renewables and natural gas, it'd be silly not to embrace EVs knowing they'll soon prove beneficial where they aren't already.

 

[K1052]

That is completely false. Electric vehicles, even when accounting for electricity generation are far cleaner than ICE vehicles. Plus, power plants are far more efficient than ICEs.

Yup

 

[woolfe9998]

Meh. Electric vehicles offer no real improvement if the electricity is generated by burning fossil fuels. It may actually be worse from a total CO2 emission POV because of the inefficiency in converting one form of energy into another. It's burn fuel to create motion vs burn fuel to create electricity to create motion.

In CA we get 3% of our grid electricity from coal.

Total System Electric Generation

We also currently have 18,000 electric charging stations. We have parking lots here where some of the spaces have coin operated chargers. They're everywhere.

Yeah, EV's are a good idea here. And soon enough they will be most other places.

 

[glenn1]

Alright since we're off of the time issue an on to the infrastructure issue that is progress heh.

1) Even at 12A and 120V from a household socket anybody with a carport, driveway, or a garage would be able to put on roughly 4 miles per hour of charging resulting in 30-40 miles overnight which covers the average daily commute. Of course I'd prefer that people have Level 2 EVSEs instead but yes that does cost money to install in most cases. My preference would be for a program between the government and utilities that subsidizes the installation of these.

2) I don't argue that existing outside of home infra is insufficient (but improving). Commercial and multi-unit construction should require this by code. A similar program to above would provide for retrofits of existing parking facilities. The deployment of fast charging infrastructure (50kw and above) at places where 20-30 minutes are spent and turnover assured (retail and food).

3) I have not made that assumption.

I'm not sure what the interest is in perpetuating the idea that this is a class war issue. Dumping most ICE transportation would pay huge dividends to the lower economic strata by removing enormous amounts of pollution they are subject to because of where they often have to live.

Great, make the incremental improvements in our building codes and infrastructure that will facilitate the switchover, I'm all for that. What I oppose is magic thinking that we can just have government dictate by fiat that switchover occurs especially by a specific date.

 

[HomerJS]

If only we had a great idea of a big infrastructure program to promote alternative energy.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Great, make the incremental improvements in our building codes and infrastructure that will facilitate the switchover, I'm all for that. What I oppose is magic thinking that we can just have government dictate by fiat that switchover occurs especially by a specific date.

Thank heaven we waited for the free market to develop the means to defend against the Japanese and beat Hitler to it! It's not Government that dictated by fiat we should have the dubious honor of making the Bomb.

 

[Jhhnn]

That's not strictly true -- I'm trying to dig them up, but I've seen (credible) studies that show it can still be a net positive. As it is, with the US shifting steadily toward renewables and natural gas, it'd be silly not to embrace EVs knowing they'll soon prove beneficial where they aren't already.

I don't know the math. I just know that the heat of conversion is a significant factor. Losses from that must be overcome with greater efficiency somewhere in the process to achieve true progress.

And while natural gas is cleaner than coal it's still a fossil fuel.

 

[hal2kilo]

Meh. Electric vehicles offer no real improvement if the electricity is generated by burning fossil fuels. It may actually be worse from a total CO2 emission POV because of the inefficiency in converting one form of energy into another. It's burn fuel to create motion vs burn fuel to create electricity to create motion.

It would be interesting to see the numbers. Power plants are about a efficient as possible. ICE's not so much. Yes, there is transmission loss.

 

[senseamp]

First of all, these people are super paranoid about BIG GOV coming for them. And then here comes a flat out declaration of war (the bolded). After that enters their heads, NOTHING else is going to matter. Nothing you say will matter. You have to approach them differently. Not start off by saying (I) am taking your jobs away. It needs to be explained that their jobs are already dying, and that we are here to help.

The context derived from how you frame it is of VITAL importance, or one cannot ever hope to bridge the partisan divide.

There is a price to pay for falling for one amygdala hijack after another. Trump peasants and miners are going to pay it.

 

[glenn1]

Thank heaven we waited for the free market to develop the means to defend against the Japanese and beat Hitler to it! It's not Government that dictated by fiat we should have the dubious honor of making the Bomb.

Yeah because we mandated consumers buy the new shiny atomic bombs rather than the old fashioned high explosive type because nuclear power is better for the environment than stuff powered by fossil fuel derived sources. The switchover to atomic bombs was pretty rapid after Calfornia mandated it with a 3 year phaseout period.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Yeah because we mandated consumers buy the new shiny atomic bombs rather than the old fashioned high explosive type because nuclear power is better for the environment than stuff powered by fossil fuel derived sources. The switchover to atomic bombs was pretty rapid after Calfornia mandated it with a 3 year phaseout period.

You missed the point, I suspect deliberately. Nevertheless, the Federal Government has the resources and is not a slave to profit when there is a crisis upon us (which we most certainly are in). You mention California- I suppose we shouldn't have the government interfere with their magical thinking of evacuations and massive firefighting efforts. You show a slavish devotion to things that don't happen when a crisis happens. The world may burn but someday a company might make a buck so we just have to wait.

 

[interchange]

There is plenty of progress being made for ICE vehicles being more fuel efficient.

 

[dainthomas]

It would be interesting to see the numbers. Power plants are about a efficient as possible. ICE's not so much. Yes, there is transmission loss.

Even with transmission loss, CO2 production per mile is lower with EVs. ICE's are horribly inefficient at producing energy from fuel. On top of that, maintenance costs are far lower with EVs. An electric motor is about as simple as can be.

The only things that need to be addressed are range issues and charging times (which is happening). As well as producing batteries in a more sustainable manner.

 

[JSt0rm]

Too bad we don't have more green job openings available for all those workers affected by this decline. I feel really bad about that. I really do. No seriously.

remember when bush blocked funding of manufacturing of solar? lol.

 

[hal2kilo]

Even with transmission loss, CO2 production per mile is lower with EVs. ICE's are horribly inefficient at producing energy from fuel. On top of that, maintenance costs are far lower with EVs. An electric motor is about as simple as can be.

The only things that need to be addressed are range issues and charging times (which is happening). As well as producing batteries in a more sustainable manner.

About a year an a half old, but the original inventor of the lithium battery has new technology he's working on. Solid state batteries.

Lithium-Ion Battery Inventor Introduces New Technology for Fast-Charging, Noncombustible Batteries

John Goodenough and his team have developed the first all-solid-state battery cells that could lead to safer, faster-charging, longer-lasting rechargeable batteries.

news.utexas.edu

Hell, I'm a dreamer when it comes to possible alternate energy technologies.

Portal - LENR Forum

Portal

www.lenr-forum.com

 

[K1052]

There is plenty of progress being made for ICE vehicles being more fuel efficient.

Sure there's been progress but a half decade of cheap gas sent everybody in to buy the least efficient vehicles they could find which is more than working against overall technological gains in efficiency wrt emissions.