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Kobe Bryant just won the NBA ALL-STAR MVP

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You couldn't refute anything I said so you just pulled a bunch of crap out of your ass. That's sad.

No, the sad part is that every single one of your answers are easily refutable....

Derek Fisher is almost as bad as Kobe in the ego department.

Says who, you? LOL. Puhlease. Heck, you even avoid my statement. I mention that Fisher was booed at the Slam Dunk Contest in Philly to show what lowlifes the fans are, and you say "Fisher has almost as big an ego as Kobe."

I doubt it. But noone can tell the future so why try...

You're right, no one can tell the future. Yet, saying "I doubt it" makes little sense, if any. How can you doubt that the Lakers (barring any catastrophic injuries, etc.) won't dominate for many years to come? I'm not saying it'll happen, but what other team even has a chance? Spurs? What, you mean the Spurs that were swept last year in the playoffs by an ungodly average of 15 points (or was it more?). The Kings? Unless you believe in miracles, Shaq will rape Webber (well, not rape, maybe just mame 😉).

Oh, so having a winning record means you are "sucking like garbage?" That's news to me.

LOL, winning record? Yeah, you're right, having a 25-24 record certainly is a "winning" record. Especially in the oh-so-talented Eastern Conference. Give me a break. Philly is garbage compared to what they were last year. Iverson is their only hope. Although the one dozen injuries or so he had during the finals last year don't bode well for future long-term performance....

No, what's sad is that you call a guy you've never met "scum" and that he has an "ego." Good job.

I never ONCE said Kobe doesn't make a difference?

Yes, you're right. But you're saying that Shaq makes more of a difference, and that somehow that makes Kobe "not all that." Either way, we would have to see Kobe in a situation where he really has to step up (kinda like Jordan's situation right now) to see what he's really made of. But still, you?ve got to admit that Shaq's situation in Orlando with Penny, Anderson, and Scott is similar to Shaq's current situation in L.A. with Kobe, Fisher, and Horry; yet, Shaq never won a championship in Orlando, whereas he already has 2 with L.A....
 


<< Hoeboy - actually you can tell the difference, and not based on the teams the Lakers played. The lakers in games w/o kobe, but with Shaq, shot a much higher percentage and scored more points over the span of those games. Without shaq and w/ kobe, their fieldgoal percentage was down and so were the points. That pretty much sums it up. There were enough games to be able to make a good judgement that overall they are a better team without kobe than they are without shaq. >>



Are you making this judgment based on stats, or actually watching the games? First of all, no kidding the team shoots a better percentage with Shaq, he shoots 57% himself, and some games over 70%. So, subtract Shaq from the lineup, and add Kobe, and the field goal percentage is obviously going to go down, because as a backcourt player, Kobe only shoots 47% And, it's no doubt the Lakers are better in games with just Shaq than in games with just Kobe, but that is a completely pointless argument, and means absolutely nothing in terms of how good a player Kobe is.

Like I said before, the Lakers are built around Shaq. Every player on the team, aside from Kobe, is there to directly complement Shaq's game. Some of them (Derek Fisher for example), have actually changed their game to compliment Shaq. The Lakers needed an outside threat for when teams double Shaq, so Fisher became that threat. With Shaq out of the lineup, not one player, aside from Kobe, can create their own shot, not one. You obviously don't watch many, if any, Laker games, because you are completely missing this fact. That is why the Lakers are better with just Shaq in the game, than they are with just Kobe. In games when Shaq doesn't play, it's painful to watch Kobe do abosultely everything it takes to get his team a win, and see his supporting cast give him absolutely zip, zilch, nada. I supposed it's Kobe fault when he sets Rick Fox up with a beautiful pass, and Rick bricks the shot? Or when he drops the ball off to Madsen, only to have Madsen get the ball repeatedly blocked?



<<
Anyone with a ounce of BB knowledge knows that Orlando made it to the NBA finals in Shaq's first or second season. What does that tell you? With ANY half decent team around Shaq they can make the championship. Now that Shaq has matured (both in weight and knowledge of the game 🙂 ) He dominates in the lowpost and all he needs is 5 decent players around him. 2 outside shooters is enough to draw attention away from him to take away the immediate double team. This allows him to free up time. He doesn't NEED Kobe. People like Rick Fox, Derek Fisher...these types of players and put up enough shots to give him some room.
 >>



Shaq needs more than 5 decent players around him to win a title. The Lakers have won the past two years because they have probably the two best players in the NBA. Subtract one or the other, and there are no titles.



<<

I never ONCE said Kobe doesn't make a difference? Apparently you lack the intelligence to see that? All i said was that Shaq could win a championship with that team w/o Kobe, a HELL of a lot easier than Kobe w/o shaq. Get with it boy.
 >>



Again, no Shaq, no titles. No Kobe, no titles. There is a reason Shaq now refers to himself and Kobe as "The Combo," because he knows it's the combo that wins the titles.



<<

Shaq went to the finals with Orlando...and he did it with the Lakers. The only reason Orlando didn't win the Championship is because of......

M J >>



Orlando didn't win the title because of MJ? That's a new one on me. I could have sworn it was Hakeem Olajuwon the Rockets that beat the Magic in the finals, but maybe I don't know my NBA history.......
 
You guys are pathetic.. what a waste of time and bandwidth debating over who deserved to respect or not. The fans can boo me all they want as long as I bring home a big fat check at the end of the day.
 
Nah you're right. The dream and Houston took the title in '95. For some reason i thought it was earlier than that that Shaq played in the championship...damn time flies.

Chicago lost to Orlando 4-2 Conference Semifinals that year. MJ didn't come back till '96 out of his 1st retirement.


And no...as stated, i wasn't saying Kobe sucks. I said he's good, but he's not what they have built that franchise around and what is the main reason they are winning championships. I still feel Shaq is the biggest part of that.
 
""You guys are pathetic.. what a waste of time and bandwidth debating over who deserved to respect or not. """

Riiiiiiiight.

We're sitting here holding a respectible debate, and you're here to b!tch and whine like a 2 year old? Exactly why are you here and why did you post?

N E F - Who exactly is wasting bandwidth? Thanks for visiting.
 
For all you people who dont understand Philly fans:

Philly fans show how they feel straight up.
They dont like Kobe...thats it...so theyre not gonna suck it up for the all-star game and national tv.
Philly fans boo the Sixers all the time when they know they should be playing better ball.
they've even booed AI before.
they boo what they dont like, and they cheer for what they do...

yes philly fans can be harsh...but they most definitely keep it real.
 
I was talking basketball w/ some friends and I proposed this analogy: Kobe and Vince:: MJ and 'Nique. On one side you've got a high flier who wins championships, and on the other side, a very high flier who makes crazy dunks, doesn't win a thing and slowly gets forgotten?

I love Kobe and Vince, but I fear for Vince that he'll become another 'Nique. Unless he wins something.

Whatcha guys think?
 
speaking of harsh fans...
i don't think it's just a philly thing.

well... maybe philly is worse than other teams...
but i think it's a northeast thing.

Boston Celtics - with walker during his minor slump a couple years ago.
NewYork Knicks. - need i say much here?

....
as for kobe and his greatness.
he is a great player...
but he's no MJ. i hate when people constantly compare players to MJ.
MJ got that with Dr.J too.

let them be who they are.

i think there are only 2 players that are unstoppable 1 on 1 in the league today.

Shaq and Iverson.

if they were to go 1 on 1 full court... i'm betting my money on iverson. 😉
 


<< I was talking basketball w/ some friends and I proposed this analogy: Kobe and Vince:: MJ and 'Nique. On one side you've got a high flier who wins championships, and on the other side, a very high flier who makes crazy dunks, doesn't win a thing and slowly gets forgotten?

I love Kobe and Vince, but I fear for Vince that he'll become another 'Nique. Unless he wins something.

Whatcha guys think? >>



Vince really isn't that much of a high flier anymore, even though he could be if he wanted to. Vince's problem is, he's become too passive going to the hoop. Every time I watch the Raptors play, Vince just shoots threes. It's actually a rare thing to see big dunks from him. His first two years in the league, you got like 4 highlight dunks a game. I think he is actually more content to launch three pointers all day. In his rookie season he attempted 1.3 3 pointers a game, in his second he was up to 2.9, now he's up tp 5.6! Meanwhile, his free throw attempts per game, and FG% are at the lowest of his career.
 


<< I was talking basketball w/ some friends and I proposed this analogy: Kobe and Vince:: MJ and 'Nique. On one side you've got a high flier who wins championships, and on the other side, a very high flier who makes crazy dunks, doesn't win a thing and slowly gets forgotten?

I love Kobe and Vince, but I fear for Vince that he'll become another 'Nique. Unless he wins something.

Whatcha guys think? >>

Wilkins wasn't a 3pt threat like Carter, and I don't recall the Hawks going too far in the playoffs...whereas the Carter led em til to a close 4-3 loss to the Philly last year (he had that UNC graduation ceremony for game 6, then rushed back the next day for game 7)

Also, unless Kobe takes his team (LAL or otherwise) to championships after Shaq retires/leaves, he can't really be compared to a MJ/Chicago legacy
 


<< last year philly fans booed destiny's child when they performed at halftime for a finals game too >>

that was cause the girls wore an LAL jersey along with a Philly jersey (I don't know which girl is which, except Beyonce, so...)
 
<<Anyone with a ounce of BB knowledge knows that Orlando made it to the NBA finals in Shaq's first or second season. What does that tell you? With ANY half decent team around Shaq they can make the championship. Now that Shaq has matured (both in weight and knowledge of the game ) He dominates in the lowpost and all he needs is 5 decent players around him. 2 outside shooters is enough to draw attention away from him to take away the immediate double team. This allows him to free up time. He doesn't NEED Kobe. People like Rick Fox, Derek Fisher...these types of players and put up enough shots to give him some room.>>

you forgot that derek fisher, rick fox, robert horry, etc, DO NOT play consistently. look at it this way. shaq will almost always get his 30 or so points. assuming lakers average 90 points a game. that leaves 2/3rd of the points left for the other players to score. do you honestly feel that the laker supporting cast can consistently put up 60+ points? HELL NO. kobe takes some of that burden and leaves the supporting cast to only score 1/3rd of the total points. that is why most of the blow out games the lakers had were when the supporting cast did a tremendous job. same without shaq. kobe cannot do it by himself. they DEPEND on each other. and using that argument when shaq was out of the game compared to kobe is irrevelant. most of the games they played were based on shaq so that is what they're used to. it's obvious they cannot automatically adjust to shaq's absences.


BTW, even if you don't believe anything that any of us are saying, you have to believe what the players and coaches are saying. even shaq believe kobe is one of the best, if not the best, in the league. wouldn't you think the guy who you feel is better than kobe knows where he stands?
 
The Lakers would not of won the championship without Kobe the past two years. In the triangle, he acted as the facilitator during the WCF and Finals. That's why the Bulls and Lakers never had the prototypical point guard. You could see this in the WCF's last year when Kobe would break down his man with his speed and then get others involved.

And yes. This team was created around Shaq and not Kobe.
 
philly is suck
case closed

of course you'd be hurt by fans!
you're playing because of the money and the fame from fans!
if you get booed... what does that make you think? "oh @#%@#% I suck ass"
hey man, you'd probably cry as well or get really pissed off.
 
shaq will be retiring i'd say in 3-4 years. his toe is jacked up and he is 30 already. then we'll see what kobe can do , at what 27 years old. he'll take over the whole league
 


<< bump for the kobe haters to justify themselves after tonight's game against the wizards :Q >>



Fun game to watch wasn't it? Kobe was doing his damndest to get his teammates involved in the first half, but they could not hit a freaking shot to save their lives. Then they started hitting, and the defense picked up, and the Lakers blew the Wiz out of the water. From down 20, to a 9 point win. Kobe with the triple double 23 points, 11 rebounds, 15 assists, plus a block and a steal.
 
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