Killing Them Softly . . . Our Policies

[DealMonkey]

Cad - maybe if Congress would stop spending the surplus SS trust fund $$ we wouldn't be facing a problem when all of the baby-boomers retire. Would we? I don't blame the program, I blame the politicians. The Bush "tax cuts" have also, in part, caused the gov't to go into SS funds to balance the books. In 2001 (link), "...this year's federal budget surplus has plunged to $153 billion because of the nation's economic doldrums and the Bush administration's tax cut, meaning the federal government will have to cover $9 billion of spending by dipping into Social Security, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office projected Tuesday..."

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Cad - maybe if Congress would stop spending the surplus SS trust fund $$ we wouldn't be facing a problem when all of the baby-boomers retire. Would we? I don't blame the program, I blame the politicians. The Bush "tax cuts" have also, in part, caused the gov't to go into SS funds to balance the books. In 2001 (link), "...this year's federal budget surplus has plunged to $153 billion because of the nation's economic doldrums and the Bush administration's tax cut, meaning the federal government will have to cover $9 billion of spending by dipping into Social Security, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office projected Tuesday..."

yes - if you would have read my response - you'd have seen that I said that it'll still go bankrupt even if the IOUs were actually repaid.
None of the stuff you mentioned changes the fact that SS will become bankrupt - they only affect the time it'll take to get there(if the IOUs go unpaid).
Hurry..Bow is coming

CkG

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: daniel1113
Where did I say I supported Bush or that I was a Christian? And, the last time I've checked, I don't think I have ever killed anyone.

Why don't you stop and consider the idea before bashing the person and the belief?

Sorry, no sale. I am not bashing your beliefs, just your attempt to force them upon others.

I am not bashing Christianity either, only the hypocrites who twist Christianity as a justification for hurting others. They are pseudo-Christians, pious frauds who wield "faith" as a sword of hatred and the Bible as a shield to excuse their treatment of their fellow man. "Judge not lest ye be judged?" "Love thy brother as thyself?" Quaint platitudes for losers, they have people to tred on and riches to horde.

Real Christians are true to Christ's teachings, showing tolerance and compassion and charity towards others. They are usually liberals, strangely enough.

You may be one of the exceptions, a compassionate conservative. If so, I ask again: How is cutting this funding consistent with Christ's teachings, knowing full well that thousands of women and children will die due to the resulting loss of medical care?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: daniel1113
Where did I say I supported Bush or that I was a Christian? And, the last time I've checked, I don't think I have ever killed anyone.

Why don't you stop and consider the idea before bashing the person and the belief?

Sorry, no sale. I am not bashing your beliefs, just your attempt to force them upon others.

I am not bashing Christianity either, only the hypocrites who twist Christianity as a justification for hurting others. They are pseudo-Christians, pious frauds who wield "faith" as a sword of hatred and the Bible as a shield to excuse their treatment of their fellow man. "Judge not lest ye be judged?" "Love thy brother as thyself?" Quaint platitudes for losers, they have people to tred on and riches to horde.

Real Christians are true to Christ's teachings, showing tolerance and compassion and charity towards others. They are usually liberals, strangely enough.

You may be one of the exceptions, a compassionate conservative. If so, I ask again: How is cutting this funding consistent with Christ's teachings, knowing full well that thousands of women and children will die due to the resulting loss of medical care?

90% of the Christian I know are Conservatives. Hmm... go figure.

"Real" Christians don't support the killing of the unborn.
Guess we gots ourselves a little catch-22 here, don't we.

CkG

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
90% of the Christian I know are Conservatives. Hmm... go figure.

"Real" Christians don't support the killing of the unborn.
Guess we gots ourselves a little catch-22 here, don't we.

CkG

Please, Cad. Helping your fellow man is Christ's way. Not every man for himself. Christ would most definitely be a liberal. As for abortion being "murder" (under the law), a fetus would have to be granted full rights and privileges as U.S. citizens. Last time I checked, they didn't posess those rights.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
90% of the Christian I know are Conservatives. Hmm... go figure.

"Real" Christians don't support the killing of the unborn.
Guess we gots ourselves a little catch-22 here, don't we.

CkG

Please, Cad. Helping your fellow man is Christ's way. Not every man for himself. Christ would most definitely be a liberal. As for abortion being "murder" (under the law), a fetus would have to be granted full rights and privileges as U.S. citizens. Last time I checked, they didn't posess those rights.

Yes - helping fellow man is Christ's way but also - Under God's law - Abortion is murder. To that there is no debate.

CkG

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Yes - helping fellow man is Christ's way but also - Under God's law - Abortion is murder. To that there is no debate.

CkG

Does it actually say that someplace in the bible? If so, can you point the appropriate passages out to me?

EDIT: By the way, the United States does not govern under nor uphold God's law. But of course you would know that.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Yes - helping fellow man is Christ's way but also - Under God's law - Abortion is murder. To that there is no debate.

CkG

Does it actually say that someplace in the bible? If so, can you point the appropriate passages out to me?

EDIT: By the way, the United States does not govern under nor uphold God's law. But of course you would know that.

No, it doesn't. It *kind of* implies life at conception, but doesn't outright state it.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Yes - helping fellow man is Christ's way but also - Under God's law - Abortion is murder. To that there is no debate.

CkG

Does it actually say that someplace in the bible? If so, can you point the appropriate passages out to me?

EDIT: By the way, the United States does not govern under nor uphold God's law. But of course you would know that.

There is no direct command in regards to Abortion, but there are plenty of places that talk of the "womb" and the child/baby. Just a little helpful info on the subject

BTW - the discussion was turned into a debate on "Christianity" and what a Christian should do. Please keep up with the flow - It's already been established that the US doesn't HAVE to give funds to any outside organization/charity.

CkG

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Yes - helping fellow man is Christ's way but also - Under God's law - Abortion is murder. To that there is no debate.

CkG

Yes, there is a debate. "Abortion is murder" is a statement of opinion, period. There is nothing in the Bible that says otherwise, nor is the Judeo/Christian God the only God of the world.

As usual, however, you dodge the real issue. None of the groups involved in this story were performing abortions. According to the article, Marie Stopes International was dispensing contraceptives, thus reducing abortions. The aforementioned pious frauds pulled funding anyway, pretending God sanctions their decision to kill thousands of innocent women and children.

Cruel hypocrisy, plain and simple.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUYIt's already been established that the US doesn't HAVE to give funds to any outside organization/charity.

Established by whom? What does that have to do with right and wrong? Most importantly, if you claim this is now a religious debate, answer my question:

How is cutting this funding consistent with Christ's teachings, knowing full well that thousands of women and children will die due to the resulting loss of medical care?

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
90% of the Christian I know are Conservatives. Hmm... go figure.

That's because you only associate with conservatives. It's one of the reasons you are so entrenched in your narrow view of the world.

"Real" Christians don't support the killing of the unborn.

Debatable, but irrelevant. No one is asking Christians to support the killing of the unborn. We're asking certain self-proclaimed Christians to show their Christian compassion and charity by continuing to fund a medical program for African women and children, thus saving thousands of the lives they claim are so precious to them.

Apparently, however, that's only before birth. After birth, these pseudo-Christians turn their backs. This is called hypocrisy.

Guess we gots ourselves a little catch-22 here, don't we

Not for a true Christian.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
90% of the Christian I know are Conservatives. Hmm... go figure.

"Real" Christians don't support the killing of the unborn.
Guess we gots ourselves a little catch-22 here, don't we.

CkG

Please, Cad. Helping your fellow man is Christ's way. Not every man for himself. Christ would most definitely be a liberal. As for abortion being "murder" (under the law), a fetus would have to be granted full rights and privileges as U.S. citizens. Last time I checked, they didn't posess those rights.

Illegal immigrants don't possess those rights, either. Does that mean we can legally kill them?

As for Christ being a liberal, I don't think so. Jesus said to love all people. He didn't say you should support or condone their actions if they go againsts God's teachings. Nice try.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Heh - Bow's on a tear tonight - spewing emotional rhetoric in his rush to demonize the Bush Administration.

*Read my link and tell me GOD would support killing of the unborn.
*You haven't a clue who I associate with - heck you don't even know that I'm not a "member" of any "church".
*Are you saying that the US HAS to fund outside charities/organizations? because as has been mentioned and I repeated - the US does NOT HAVE to fund any outside charity/org.
*you assertion that these women will die because we pulled funding from a world wide organization is dubious at best.
Oh and a "true" Christian would most certainly think that Abortion is wrong..if not outright murder.


Anyone have figures on exactly how much funding was pulled in our attempt to kill African women

?

CkG

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
90% of the Christian I know are Conservatives. Hmm... go figure.

"Real" Christians don't support the killing of the unborn.
Guess we gots ourselves a little catch-22 here, don't we.

CkG

Please, Cad. Helping your fellow man is Christ's way. Not every man for himself. Christ would most definitely be a liberal. As for abortion being "murder" (under the law), a fetus would have to be granted full rights and privileges as U.S. citizens. Last time I checked, they didn't posess those rights.

Illegal immigrants don't possess those rights, either. Does that mean we can legally kill them?

As for Christ being a liberal, I don't think so. Jesus said to love all people. He didn't say you should support or condone their actions if they go againsts God's teachings. Nice try.

No, but he did say, "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."

In any case, you guys keep dodging the subject. No one is asking you to support abortion; we're asking you to support a charitable group that provides health care to African women and children. None of the agencies in the group are performing abortions. Are you willing to address this, or are you going to keep hiding an apparent lack of compassion and charity behind an anti-abortion charade?

 

[daniel1113]

Sure... we, as a country, are not required to support any charitable organization. It is a gift, not a right. I feel that more women and children could be saved it we supported a different organization or used the money to end abortions in our own country instead. How is that un-Christian or un-American?

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
*Read my link and tell me GOD would support killing of the unborn.

And your reading comprehension is as impaired as usual. There is nothing in your link that connects the unborn and murder. There are passages that refer to the womb and unborn. There are passages connecting God and man. There are passages that say murder is wrong (duh!). There's nothing connecting the unborn and murder. Even if there was, however, it is irrelevant to this issue.

No one here is claiming God approves of abortion or that Christians should support abortion. (Did you get it this time?) I don't like the idea of abortion myself, but it is not relevant to the facts in this case. It is a dishonest argument to avoid addressing the real subject at hand. Quit lying and focus on the real issue. Can you do that?


(You get confused when I put more than one point in a thread, so I'll keep it simple for you and address the rest of your post separately.)

 

[Bowfinger]

AS promised, here's the rest of my response. Cad is in italics.

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Heh - Bow's on a tear tonight - spewing emotional rhetoric in his rush to demonize the Bush Administration.
Blah. Blah. Blah. No content here.

*Read my link and tell me GOD would support killing of the unborn.
Addressed elsewhere.

*You haven't a clue who I associate with - heck you don't even know that I'm not a "member" of any "church".
Don't care, not about you. You're the one who brought it up.

*Are you saying that the US HAS to fund outside charities/organizations? because as has been mentioned and I repeated - the US does NOT HAVE to fund any outside charity/org.
Has to? No. Has a moral obligation? Damn right. No true Christian would have to ask why.

*you assertion that these women will die because we pulled funding from a world wide organization is dubious at best.
I'm just repeating what the article says, as well as stating the obvious to anyone with a little common sense. Did you read the article? Do you have any common sense?

Oh and a "true" Christian would most certainly think that Abortion is wrong..if not outright murder.
OK, works for me. I didn't suggest anything to the contrary. I just pointed out that it is a personal opinion not supported by Scripture. Your only basis for believing it is your personal bias.

Anyone have figures on exactly how much funding was pulled in our attempt to kill African women

?
Not an attempt, just an inevitable result. You should go back and reread those passages about murder. Then flip over to the New Testament and learn a little about Christ's thoughts on compassion and charity and love for your fellow man.

CkG

 

[daniel1113]

Why does Cad need to go read the New Testament? I don't remember him say that he was a Christian... did I miss that?

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: daniel1113
Sure... we, as a country, are not required to support any charitable organization. It is a gift, not a right. I feel that more women and children could be saved it we supported a different organization or used the money to end abortions in our own country instead. How is that un-Christian or un-American?

Because (1) I don't believe you; based on your earlier posts you just can't get past your abortion guilt-by-association litmus test, and (2) because that's not the justification offered by the Bush administration, which is supposed to be the topic of this thread.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: daniel1113
Why does Cad need to go read the New Testament? I don't remember him say that he was a Christian... did I miss that?

I see he's trained you well. Ignore the substance, find something irrelevant to change the subject.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
*Read my link and tell me GOD would support killing of the unborn.

And your reading comprehension is as impaired as usual. There is nothing in your link that connects the unborn and murder. There are passages that refer to the womb and unborn. There are passages connecting God and man. There are passages that say murder is wrong (duh!). There's nothing connecting the unborn and murder. Even if there was, however, it is irrelevant to this issue.

No one here is claiming God approves of abortion or that Christians should support abortion. (Did you get it this time?) I don't like the idea of abortion myself, but it is not relevant to the facts in this case. It is a dishonest argument to avoid addressing the real subject at hand. Quit lying and focus on the real issue. Can you do that?


(You get confused when I put more than one point in a thread, so I'll keep it simple for you and address the rest of your post separately.)

Ah yes - the old "I can't put two and two together" argument. You see Bow - it's not that tough. Murder is wrong.(you got that part) The bible talks of the baby in the womb as a person. Killing this baby(person in God's eyes) would be murder.

Yes - it is relevant. Check the law regarding the funding of organizations who "supports or participates in the management" of forced abortions and steriliazation. Marie Stopes(who is reportedly involved in such) is sponsored by .... yep - you guessed it - none other than the "Reproductive Health Consortium". Also I do believe that the State Dept offered to restore funding if the Consortim dropped funding for Marie Stopes - it seems as though they declined to take us up on our offer of funding Now WHO is to blame for these women who will die in Africa? Who refused to take the funding?

You can dispense with the ad homs at any time. Thanks.

CkG

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Bow- Your assumption of my charity is unfounded. I do not have to(and will not) prove such to you, but other's know of my willingness to help those that aren't in a position to help themselves.

BTW - I am a Christian - I just don't affiliate myself with an established church entity, not that I should have to prove myself to you anyway.

One more time - please dispense with the personal references, as you say - lets not change the subject.

CkG

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: daniel1113
Why does Cad need to go read the New Testament? I don't remember him say that he was a Christian... did I miss that?

Yes, he's said it many, many times. It's OK though, you're apparantly new around here.

 

[daniel1113]

Why do you keep focusing on Christianity and the Bible then? It's not changing the subject, it's addressing your challenge. If you don't want me to respond to it, don't post it. Quite simple, really.