Kerry: Bush Lets Groups Do 'Dirty Work'

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cKGunslinger

Lifer
Nov 29, 1999
16,408
57
91
Originally posted by: Todd33
Finally Kerry is taking a stand and fighting back. You have to fight back against this crap, people can't see through it, they are morons in general.
And there it is again, folks. Unless you support and believe Kerry, you are labeled a moron. No, sorry, you can't have your own opinions and ideas about matters. It's pretty cut-n-dry. Bush supporters == ignorant, mindless, brainwashed sheep who can't think for themselves. :roll:

The fact that some of you guys post this crap doesn't scare me half as much as knowing that quite a few of you actually believe it, as well.
 

PELarson

Platinum Member
Mar 27, 2001
2,289
0
0
Originally posted by: Cogman
Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous
I'd like to see a debate, but why about vietnam? Bush has little to say about Kerry's vietnam experience, and has already said he will not challenge it. Why not debate on more pertinent subjects like the economy?


Good point. if kerry will just drop the "Im a Vienam Vet" part of his campain and bring up some diffrent Issues that deal with the hear and now, Like what socal reforms and such he would push for or agenst. I mean can anyone hear state what kerry stands for or what he stands against?

[Devil's Advocate on]

What is Senator Kerry trying to hide by running away from his service in the Navy and his tours of duty in Vietnam?

[/Devil's Advocate off]

It hasn't been a major theme of the Kerry campaign it however has been a major theme of the pro-Bush campaign. Perhaps, the pro-Bush forces have nothing to praise about President Bush's last four years in office or his [sarcasm] numerous successes[/sarcasm] in his life!
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: Todd33
Finally Kerry is taking a stand and fighting back. You have to fight back against this crap, people can't see through it, they are morons in general.
And there it is again, folks. Unless you support and believe Kerry, you are labeled a moron. No, sorry, you can't have your own opinions and ideas about matters. It's pretty cut-n-dry. Bush supporters == ignorant, mindless, brainwashed sheep who can't think for themselves. :roll:

The fact that some of you guys post this crap doesn't scare me half as much as knowing that quite a few of you actually believe it, as well.

I don't know what to believe about Kerry's war record for sure. I say a debate is a good idea. If it's an issue that can be cleared up, then it should be cleared up and a debate seems to me to be the best way to do it. May the best man win. That is the right wing motto, isn't it?
 
Apr 14, 2004
1,599
0
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He stands against Bush. What else do you need to know?
Not everyone is a simple minded Bush hating fanatic like some of the members here. Some people want to vote for a candidate rather than against the other one.

It hasn't been a major theme of the Kerry campaign it however has been a major theme of the pro-Bush campaign.
"As President, I will wage this war with the lessons I learned in war."
"And in this journey, I am accompanied by an extraordinary band of brothers led by that American hero, a patriot named Max Cleland. Our band of brothers doesn't march together because of who we are as veterans, but because of what we learned as soldiers. We fought for this nation because we loved it and we came back with the deep belief that every day is extra. We may be a little older now, we may be a little grayer, but we still know how to fight for our country."
"I know what kids go through when they are carrying an M-16 in a dangerous place and they can't tell friend from foe. I know what they go through when they're out on patrol at night and they don't know what's coming around the next bend. I know what it's like to write letters home telling your family that everything's all right when you're not sure that's true. "
"I defended this country as a young man and I will defend it as President."
"I learned a lot about these values on that gunboat patrolling the Mekong Delta with young Americans who came from places as different as Iowa and Oregon, Arkansas, Florida and California."

All from his speech at the DNC. Kerry has brought up the vietnam war numerous times.
 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
7,842
2
81
All from his speech at the DNC. Kerry has brought up the vietnam war numerous times.

All of this from a 50 minute talk with how many thousands of words? LOL. We'll see how many times Bush invokes 9/11 and the war on terror during the RNC.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
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quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He stands against Bush. What else do you need to know?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


It was a joke meant to laugh at, not a serious comment. Geeesh!!

How about an clear cut answer on the debat instead of an attempt to change the subject/direction of the thread?
 

cKGunslinger

Lifer
Nov 29, 1999
16,408
57
91
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
I don't know what to believe about Kerry's war record for sure. I say a debate is a good idea. If it's an issue that can be cleared up, then it should be cleared up and a debate seems to me to be the best way to do it. May the best man win. That is the right wing motto, isn't it?
In my opinion, unless one of the candidates turned around and purposely fired on his own troops, screaming "Death to the Capitalist Pigs of America," I don't much care about their service record. Sure, it may have helped them become the person they are today, but it doen't necesarily play a huge factor in whether or not they will make a good President.

And I'm sure some of you may think that I'm only saying that because I think Kerry's record is more impressive, but I have no idea what I can say to prove otherwise. I do think Kerry has a better military history, I just think there are SO many more importants things to worry about, and you so rarely hear about them. And I know a lot of that can be blamed on the media for simplyfying things to near-worthlessness, but the Kerry campaign (and the Bush one, for that matter) can be partially blamed for not promoting the bigger issues.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
He stands against Bush. What else do you need to know?

Hitler stood against the republic. What else did they need to know?

It hasn't been a major theme of the Kerry campaign it however has been a major theme of the pro-Bush campaign. Perhaps, the pro-Bush forces have nothing to praise about President Bush's last four years in office or his [sarcasm] numerous successes[/sarcasm] in his life!

I take it you didnt watch his acceptance speech at the DNC?

All of this from a 50 minute talk with how many thousands of words? LOL. We'll see how many times Bush invokes 9/11 and the war on terror during the RNC.

He brings this up everytime he is in trouble. In past elections he uses the same tactics of showing of his war record.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
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Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous
He stands against Bush. What else do you need to know?
Not everyone is a simple minded Bush hating fanatic like some of the members here. Some people want to vote for a candidate rather than against the other one.

It hasn't been a major theme of the Kerry campaign it however has been a major theme of the pro-Bush campaign.
"As President, I will wage this war with the lessons I learned in war."
"And in this journey, I am accompanied by an extraordinary band of brothers led by that American hero, a patriot named Max Cleland. Our band of brothers doesn't march together because of who we are as veterans, but because of what we learned as soldiers. We fought for this nation because we loved it and we came back with the deep belief that every day is extra. We may be a little older now, we may be a little grayer, but we still know how to fight for our country."
"I know what kids go through when they are carrying an M-16 in a dangerous place and they can't tell friend from foe. I know what they go through when they're out on patrol at night and they don't know what's coming around the next bend. I know what it's like to write letters home telling your family that everything's all right when you're not sure that's true. "
"I defended this country as a young man and I will defend it as President."
"I learned a lot about these values on that gunboat patrolling the Mekong Delta with young Americans who came from places as different as Iowa and Oregon, Arkansas, Florida and California."

All from his speech at the DNC. Kerry has brought up the vietnam war numerous times.

Instead of flooding the thread with a bunch of quotes, answer the question.

I will ask it again as "simple minded" as I can:

Would you support a Bush/Kerry debate on their military service? Yes or No?

If yes, why?

If no, why?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
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I wouldnt support a debate on their military service.
Why? Bush has agreed with Johns Kerrys assertion he was in vietnam and earned his medals.

What would there be to debate?

John Kerry: I rescued somebody from a river
George Bush: I agree

John Kerry: I recieved 3 purple hearts
George Bush: I agree

/yawn

I think maybe what you want to see is John Kerry debate the swift boat vets

John Kerry: I was in Cambodia on Christmas of 68
SBV: No you werent
John Kerry: Ya, you are right.

Now that would be entertainment in its finest sense ;)
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
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Originally posted by: Genx87
He stands against Bush. What else do you need to know?

Hitler stood against the republic. What else did they need to know?


Again, that was obviously not a serious comment, it was a joke. Boy you Bush supporters sure are sensitive!! Someone says he's against him and he's quoted as if he had committed some major crime, LOL

Anyway, how do you compare the two things. One is a man against another man, and the other is a man against a goverment? I guess by innuendo you are trying to compare Kerry against Hitler? LOL Keep trying.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
I wouldnt support a debate on their military service.
Why? Bush has agreed with Johns Kerrys assertion he was in vietnam and earned his medals.

What would there be to debate?

John Kerry: I rescued somebody from a river
George Bush: I agree

John Kerry: I recieved 3 purple hearts
George Bush: I agree

/yawn

I think maybe what you want to see is John Kerry debate the swift boat vets

John Kerry: I was in Cambodia on Christmas of 68
SBV: No you werent
John Kerry: Ya, you are right.

Now that would be entertainment in its finest sense ;)

Entertainment? Hardly entertainment. It would be a search for the facts of both mens military records. Try to make light of it, but it would be a fight I would like to see!!

May the best man win!!!
 
Apr 14, 2004
1,599
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I have answered the question. No, I don't want it, as there are many more worthwhile things to debate than candidates' military experience.
 

Ethex

Member
Aug 11, 2004
121
0
0
I?m all for paying for what you?ve spent. I live in Kalifornia where we had to kick the governor out because he keep spending and spending and spending. I agree you cannot cut taxes and spend more. You have to start cutting back not raising more money.
 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
7,842
2
81
I like Genx87 style, maybe we can use it!

Kerry> So the 'No Child Left Behind' is a failure nationwide because you didn't fund it"
Bush> Well ya

Kerry> 'Clean skies act' is a farce which lets corporation pollute with ease?
Bush> Well ya.

Kerry> You used your daddy to jump ahead of a year and a half waiting list to join the ANG and avoid service in Vietnam, then skipped out?
Bush> Well ya.

Kerry> you weaseled the 'Prescription Drug Act' through Congress and it turns out to be a handout to pharmaceutical companies?
Bush> Well ya.

Kerry> Shall I go on?
Bush> No sir...
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
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Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
I don't know what to believe about Kerry's war record for sure. I say a debate is a good idea. If it's an issue that can be cleared up, then it should be cleared up and a debate seems to me to be the best way to do it. May the best man win. That is the right wing motto, isn't it?
In my opinion, unless one of the candidates turned around and purposely fired on his own troops, screaming "Death to the Capitalist Pigs of America," I don't much care about their service record. Sure, it may have helped them become the person they are today, but it doen't necesarily play a huge factor in whether or not they will make a good President.

And I'm sure some of you may think that I'm only saying that because I think Kerry's record is more impressive, but I have no idea what I can say to prove otherwise. I do think Kerry has a better military history, I just think there are SO many more importants things to worry about, and you so rarely hear about them. And I know a lot of that can be blamed on the media for simplyfying things to near-worthlessness, but the Kerry campaign (and the Bush one, for that matter) can be partially blamed for not promoting the bigger issues.


I'd have to agree with you in general, except that I think Kerry should have the chance to duke it out with Bush on this issue. Let's get it behind us so we can move on to the real issues and leave the sniping behind. :D
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
This is the stuff I love-

"The Bush administration has never endorsed the SBVFT."

While the remark is technically technically correct, they've never denounced them, either, even when GWB had it put to him point blank on national tv... McCain did, however, and Kerry denounced MoveOn for an ad he felt was over the top...

SBVFT is just a mouthpiece for a long time Bush contributor, a former protege of Colson, one of the greatest Republican tricksters of all time. And it's not about Kerry's conduct during the war, but after he came home, anyway. Anybody who can read a stopsign should be able to figure it out- it's a complete no-brainer.... merely an exploitation of some bitter and twisted vets. Just think, we'll have even more, thanks to the adventure in Iraq...

And then ter's the "black baby" smear perpetrated against McCain in the 2000 S Carolina race- never denounced by Bush- AFAIK...
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
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Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous
I have answered the question. No, I don't want it, as there are many more worthwhile things to debate than candidates' military experience.


So you don't think Kerry deserves the chance to clear this up for once and for all? I totally disagree. It really is a non-issue except for that fact the the right wing used it to cast doubt on his credibility. Now that they need to put their kohona's where their mouth is and let the chips fall where they may.
 

heartsurgeon

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,260
0
0
hmmmm....

what about Michael Moore and his docu-bullsh!t propaganda movie.....i don't recall Kerry denouncing him.

what about moveon.org and it's Bush=Hitler movie....i don't recall Kerry denouncing moveon.org

what about Howard Dean positing that Bush knew the 9/11 attack was coming and didn't do anything to stop it? i don't recall Kerry "denouncing" Dean.

and Kerry's latest b.s. is to claim that he doesn't support the groups that are trying to make something about Bush's service in the Air National Guard..yea right..

o.k.

i'm here as a Bush representive to state that President Bush "denounces any efforts to misrepresent Sen. Kerry's military service"

heh heh....now what are gonna say?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
While the remark is technically technically correct, they've never denounced them, either, even when GWB had it put to him point blank on national tv... McCain did, however, and Kerry denounced MoveOn for an ad he felt was over the top...

Where is it the job of the president to denounce ads run by private organizations? If we are going to start comparing things like this. Then lets compare what Kerry and Bush have done with similar campaigns.

Bush distances himself from this organization.
Kerry embraces and uses Moores work in his speeches and rhetoric.

If Kerry is going to put his money where his mouth is. The least he could do is not use Moores misleading work as a source for his speeches.

Anyway, how do you compare the two things. One is a man against another man, and the other is a man against a goverment? I guess by innuendo you are trying to compare Kerry against Hitler? LOL Keep trying.

Hardly and that isnt my point. My point is many people in Germany just wanted a change and it didnt matter what Hitler stood for. I hear over and over from lefties that all people need to know is Kerry is not Bush. Well personally even if I didnt like Bush. I would want to know what Kerry stood for and make sure it is truely better than what Bush stands for.

At this point even if I was open for changing my vote Kerry hasnt presented anything that distances himself from Bush. And the other 50% of his campaign is about taking two sides to every issue. Sometime down the road he is going to need to take stands.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
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Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
hmmmm....

what about Michael Moore and his docu-bullsh!t propaganda movie.....i don't recall Kerry denouncing him.

what about moveon.org and it's Bush=Hitler movie....i don't recall Kerry denouncing moveon.org

what about Howard Dean positing that Bush knew the 9/11 attack was coming and didn't do anything to stop it? i don't recall Kerry "denouncing" Dean.

and Kerry's latest b.s. is to claim that he doesn't support the groups that are trying to make something about Bush's service in the Air National Guard..yea right..

o.k.

i'm here as a Bush representive to state that President Bush "denounces any efforts to misrepresent Sen. Kerry's military service"

heh heh....now what are gonna say?


What about a debate on this issue?? Are you guy's scared of one? It sure seems like it to me.

I haven't seen the m moore film and don't plan on wasting my time to watch it.

9/11 was a tragedy and I would have a hard time believing they knew about it and did nothing. Maybe they should have knew? I don't pretend to have the answer to that one.

your last point can be addressed with a debate. Let's have it!! Gimme, gimme, gimme a debate, don't wait, debate. May the best man win!!
 

bozack

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2000
7,913
12
81
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
This is the stuff I love-

"The Bush administration has never endorsed the SBVFT."

While the remark is technically technically correct, they've never denounced them, either, even when GWB had it put to him point blank on national tv... McCain did, however, and Kerry denounced MoveOn for an ad he felt was over the top...

SBVFT is just a mouthpiece for a long time Bush contributor, a former protege of Colson, one of the greatest Republican tricksters of all time. And it's not about Kerry's conduct during the war, but after he came home, anyway. Anybody who can read a stopsign should be able to figure it out- it's a complete no-brainer.... merely an exploitation of some bitter and twisted vets. Just think, we'll have even more, thanks to the adventure in Iraq...

And then ter's the "black baby" smear perpetrated against McCain in the 2000 S Carolina race- never denounced by Bush- AFAIK...

Why didn't Kerry or any of the Dem candidates denounce the numerous anti Bush ads in the months prior to and shortly after their primaries? Why is it only now that there is an ad which directly targets Kerry (and I am assuming is doing alot of harm to his campaign) that they decide to take the higher road and denounce a similar ad against bush and suggest he do the same?

Kerry must be pretty steamed but as others have said he is going after the wrong guy...he should be petitioning the SBVFT for a debate, not the prez as Bush as already said he doesn't want to discuss prior military service....IMHO pretty low of Kerry to be aiming his criticism at Bush when in fact it should be towards the SBV....and for those who say Bush is the lower man because he didn't denounce the ad personally I think that is crap, this guy has had to go through months and months of drivel about his service record and his performance in office why wouldn't he enjoy something which gives it back a little to his opposition, I know I would.
 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
7,842
2
81
what about Michael Moore and his docu-bullsh!t propaganda movie.....i don't recall Kerry denouncing him.

Moore movie stands on it's own and is something you have to pay to see, it's not an ad in swing states. While biased, very little of it has been disproved. It's mostly clips of Bush and others in theri own words.

what about moveon.org and it's Bush=Hitler movie....i don't recall Kerry denouncing moveon.org

Those were submitted by people and pulled within days, there were 2000+ movies submitted. Only the RNC kept them on the web. Do you just regurgitate Hannity without reading anything?

what about Howard Dean positing that Bush knew the 9/11 attack was coming and didn't do anything to stop it? i don't recall Kerry "denouncing" Dean.

More Hannity lies. I suggest you get the transcripts of Dean. He said it was a conspiracy theory that was only strengthened when the President comes out against the various 9/11 comissions.

and Kerry's latest b.s. is to claim that he doesn't support the groups that are trying to make something about Bush's service in the Air National Guard..yea right..

So you want Kerry to refute stuff, but when he does you still go after him. Damned if you do, damned if you don't?