Kaveri Refresh Desktop CPUs coming in 2015 (Rumour)

[cbn]

Would be a pretty interesting chip, and it'd fill a hole in the current line-up. Currently there is no way to get a 2 module/4 thread Steamroller chip without sacrificing either the IGP or moving up to the A8-7600, with an "overpowered" IGP for non-gaming use...

With Trinity and Richland (and Now Kaveri), AMD has stuck with having two tiers of unlocked quad cores APUs and two tiers of locked quad core APUs.

But with Kaveri, the first two tiers of unlocked APUs are just so expensive I think they definitely need a third tier of unlocked quad core APU.

In a pinch, I'd settle for a 2 module/128SP chip.

Another good idea.

Maybe this should be the replacement for Athlon x4 840 (locked quad core with no iGPU)?

 

[Insert_Nickname]

The new FCH is good news, should be a huge power drop going from 65nm->28nm. It'll will be interesting to see what new features are added in A98X - hopefully M.2 4x among other features. AMD needs a better spec list (and much better marketing) to stop the the slide in APU sales.

Yes, I agree M.2 spec is something AMD should have.

All APUs since Llano already has 4 "general purpose" PCIe lines coming of the APU in addition to the 16 for graphics and 4 for the FCH. It'd be so "easy" to add an M.2 x4 slot that you're almost asking yourself why no mainboard manufacturer hasn't done so already...

Besides, Carrizo should feature a small on-die FCH like Kabini. It'd be interesting to see if any mainboard manufacturers would make a board using that.

But with Kaveri, the first two tiers of unlocked APUs are just so expensive I think they definitely need a third tier of unlocked quad core APU.

Agree. After all, they can already make an iGPU-less version. I wouldn't think there were that many dies were the IGP is completely defective.

 

[NostaSeronx]

Kaveri-L/Kaveri "Refresh" - (New Die);
FM2+ -> 16 PCIe 3.0 (GFX) / 8 PCIe 2.0 (4 for UMI/4 for GPP)
FM3 -> 16 PCIe 3.0 (GFX) / 8 PCIe 3.0 (UMI)

A88X FCH -> 4 GB/s (Aggregate) - UMI
A98X FCH -> 16 GB/s (Aggregate) - UMI

Kaveri-L CPU Core Count: 6
Kaveri-L CPU Thread Count: 12 <-- click it
DDR3/DDR4 Bit Width: 128 bits (vs Kaveri's 256-bit DDR3/GDDR5 Combo Phy)

Do not know about the GPU or if it has HBM. No Integrated Southbridge.

Carrizo-L - (New die from Carrizo)
FM3 -> 16 PCIe 4.0 (GFX) / 8 PCIe 3.0 (UMI)

Carrizo-L CPU Core Count: 8
Carrizo-L CPU Thread Count: 16
DDR4 Bit Width: 128 bits

Do not know about the GPU or if it has HBM. No Integrated Southbridge.

The -L family uses a module format spawned from Piledriver-L;
https://securecdn.disqus.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/500/9389/original.jpg

 

[Ajay]

Kaveri-L CPU Core Count: 6
Kaveri-L CPU Thread Count: 12 <-- click it
DDR3/DDR4 Bit Width: 128 bits (vs Kaveri's 256-bit DDR3/GDDR5 Combo Phy)

Because of some graphics on the side of a truck trailer!!

 

[cbn]

Agree. After all, they can already make an iGPU-less version. I wouldn't think there were that many dies were the IGP is completely defective.

Yes, I agree.

One thing I have noticed looking at the APUs with the most iGPU disabled (A4-5300, A6-5400k, A4-6300, A6-6400K, A4-7300, A6-7400K), is that they all happen to be dual core.

Defects occuring on both iGPU and CPU module at the same time? Even during the Richland refresh? Or were those SKUs being created on purpose?

Probably they were created on purpose and a lot of SKUs with a good number number of CUs disabled have two defect free cpu modules.

 

[NostaSeronx]

Because of some graphics on the side of a truck trailer!!

That came from the head of marketing at AMD.

 

[Ajay]

That came from the head of marketing at AMD.

Still, there is _zero_ context in that graphic. It could mean anything - that, and I trust AMD marketing as far as I can throw a 300 mm silicon ingot!

 

[NostaSeronx]

Still, there is _zero_ context in that graphic.

White+Swords = "CPU Cores" (AMD has never released a processor with SMT2 cores. So, virtual "cores" might be counted just for marketing value.) ((AMD : "If Intel does it we will do it too."))
Red/Black+Guns/Swords = "Compute Cores"
Red+Guns = "GPU Cores"

Context = 12 "CPU Cores" inbound. The guy who made the truck art authored Richland(the video from the prologue) and "Core is back" Prologue.

 

[frozentundra123456]

That makes some sense to me. Kaveri should see an improvement in GFX and mixed GFX/CPU performance w/DDR4. I'm somewhat amazed that AMD invested in a new die, but if it fixes the throttling problem mentioned above - that'd be a nice improvement. The new FCH is good news, should be a huge power drop going from 65nm->28nm. It'll will be interesting to see what new features are added in A98X - hopefully M.2 4x among other features. AMD needs a better spec list (and much better marketing) to stop the the slide in APU sales.

I was going to build an HTPC last year w/Kaveri, but it was a disappointment, so I bought a new TiVo. I won't be building one now - but I hope Carrizo is more up to the task than Kaveri in the GFX department.

I've seen the info on DDR4-3000 being available next year, so that should help Carrizo. I wish we'd see HBM too, but I don't know if the costs are low enough yet.

Maybe, but will one want to pair expensive DDR 4 ram with a "bargain" APU? Maybe by then the price will come down, but the prices I have seen so far for DDR4 are really expensive.

 

[Ajay]

Maybe, but will one want to pair expensive DDR 4 ram with a "bargain" APU? Maybe by then the price will come down, but the prices I have seen so far for DDR4 are really expensive.

Well, the revised APU will be AMD's top end. Paired with, what most likely, will be a more expensive A98X board, maybe it will be worth it to some, for things like a mini-ITX system. All you need is 8GB in for that kind of system. It's not like someone building a Haswell-E workstation with a min of 32GB.

 

[cbn]

Maybe, but will one want to pair expensive DDR 4 ram with a "bargain" APU? Maybe by then the price will come down, but the prices I have seen so far for DDR4 are really expensive.

....And then another thing to consider is what size the fastest DDR4 modules will come in?

Will we see fast DDR4 for the 4GB DIMMs? Or will the fastest DDR4 be exclusive to 8GB+ DIMMs?

If the fastest DDR4 comes primarily in 8GB DIMMs gamers could be saddled with much of the same problem they had with DDR3 (limited bandwidth) unless they want to buy a 16GB dual channel kit.

(I think in an ideal world a bargain gamer would want 4GB RAM, 8GB at the most, with a smaller faster pool of memory for the GPU. 16GB RAM is not likely to be cost effective and probably a poor use if funds in the grand scheme of things for quite some time to come.)

 

[inf64]

The truck marketing graphics are about Kaveri compute cores... 4+8=12. Mystery solved, carry on.

 

[cbn]

Regarding positioning of DDR3 vs. DDR4 for APUs,

I see most 2 x 4GB DDR3 2400 kits coming in at CAS 11 and 1.65v, but there are other 2 x 4GB DDR3 kits also at 1.65v, but looser timings allowing even faster speeds.

How fast of a DDR3 RAM kit can a person use with Kaveri?

 

[Ajay]

Regarding positioning of DDR3 vs. DDR4 for APUs,

I see most 2 x 4GB DDR3 2400 kits coming in at CAS 11 and 1.65v, but there are other 2 x 4GB DDR3 kits also at 1.65v, but looser timings allowing even faster speeds.

How fast of a DDR3 RAM kit can a person use with Kaveri?

DDR4 modules will require lower voltage for a given speed, but the timings are a little bit looser - so streaming apps will benefit a bit more than those that are are depend on more random and bursty access patterns.

 

[NostaSeronx]

How fast of a DDR3 RAM kit can a person use with Kaveri?

4 GHz, if you get some good 20-nm DIMMs. DDR4 for everything not Kaveri should be higher while also being lower with 4.266 GHz.

This is not done through JEDEC but AMP or XMP or good ole overclocking. Only one more year before DDR4 gets cheap *drool* can't wait for the 4x platform upgrade that awaits.

 

[cbn]

Deleted.

 

[cbn]

One reason I brought up memory speeds because I wonder how much gas is really left in the tank of DDR3?

2 x 4GB DDR3 2400 @ 1.65v looks fairly affordable (commanding a price premium of $9 over 2 x 4GB DDR3 1600 @ 1.5v going by current Newegg prices).

Likewise 2 x 4GB DDR3 2666 @ 1.65v is about $10 more than DDR3 2400 @ 1.65v,

So I wonder if DDR3 2800 is the next point we could see a price break for 2 x 4GB kits?

Or are we pretty much done on the affordable DDR3 memory scaling (without resorting to exotic cooling)?

P.S. In an ideal world, I would hope DDR3 2800 2 x 4GB kits would be the same price as DDR3 2400 2 x 4GB kits....with the only difference being timings. But I am not sure if such a future is even possible?

(Actually in an ideal world, really fast and affordable 2 x 2GB DDR3 kits would be available. AFAIK, I don't need more than 4GB RAM for a bargain priced Steam Linux gamer box with APU)

 

[bowtech]

If these refresh rumors are true, I do hope it will not be clockspeed increases alone as we seen in the past with the Trinity to Richland transition. (examples: A10-5800K---> A10-6800K, Athlon x4 750K --> Athlon x 4 760K, A6-5400K ---> A6-6400K)

Instead of just clockspeed increases, I hope we see AMD use the yield improvements to combine some of the weaker highly harvested SKUs (like the Athlon x 4 860K and A6-7400K) into one stronger SKU:

Athlon x4 860K (unlocked quad core with 2MB cache, no iGPU) x A6-7400K (unlocked dual core with 1MB cache and 256 stream processor iGPU) = A8-7500K (unlocked quad core with 2MB cache and 256 stream processor iGPU).

(Or if using Refresh naming it could be called A8-8500K or whatever)

Yep.

 

[jpiniero]

One reason I brought up memory speeds because I wonder how much gas is really left in the tank of DDR3?

2 x 4GB DDR3 2400 @ 1.65v looks fairly affordable (commanding a price premium of $9 over 2 x 4GB DDR3 1600 @ 1.5v going by current Newegg prices).

I don't know where you are looking. The cheapest single DDR4 2400 stick is 4 GB for $66; DDR3 4 GB is somewhere in the 35-40 range for DDR3 1600 and 45ish for DDR3 1866. 2X looked about double for both.

 

[cbn]

I don't know where you are looking. The cheapest single DDR4 2400 stick is 4 GB for $66; DDR3 4 GB is somewhere in the 35-40 range for DDR3 1600 and 45ish for DDR3 1866. 2X looked about double for both.

Newegg.



I am looking at 2 x 4GB kits:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...PC3%2019200%29

(2 x 4GB DDR3 2400 starting @ $79.99, free shipping)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...127&amp;IsNodeId=1

(2 x 4GB DDR3 1600 starting @ $71.99, free shipping)

 

[jpiniero]

Oh, I misread your post. I thought you were talking about DDR4.

 

[Sweepr]

Here's Kaveri Refresh. What's up with the CPU clockspeed reductions?

http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2015/2015020801_AMD_to_launch_Kaveri_Refresh_APUs_in_mid-2015.html

 

[SlowSpyder]

White+Swords = "CPU Cores" (AMD has never released a processor with SMT2 cores. So, virtual "cores" might be counted just for marketing value.) ((AMD : "If Intel does it we will do it too."))
Red/Black+Guns/Swords = "Compute Cores"
Red+Guns = "GPU Cores"

Context = 12 "CPU Cores" inbound. The guy who made the truck art authored Richland(the video from the prologue) and "Core is back" Prologue.

I'd have to see the article that's taken from, but I think you're reading too much into it. Look at how the A10 7850k is marketed, '12 Compute Cores (4 CPU + 8 GPU)'

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819113359

 

[ShintaiDK]

Here's Kaveri Refresh. What's up with the CPU clockspeed reductions?

http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2015/2015020801_AMD_to_launch_Kaveri_Refresh_APUs_in_mid-2015.html

Seems Kaveris original target yields was too optimistic I guess. But I am not surprised when looking at Kaveri.

 

[Abwx]

Seems Kaveris original target yields was too optimistic I guess. But I am not surprised when looking at Kaveri.

Still wild speculating on indeed false assumptions.?.

Kaveri refreshes are new steppings and are fabbed only since this month in industrial quantities.