Kamala vs the Orange Felon - Presidential Race 2024 - Polls, News, Etc...

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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
26,155
15,575
136
Those are very different phenomena. Meteors that fuck up bigtime are pretty rare. Wars not so much. Volcanos are limited in range. Climate change is our existential crisis. Trump calls it a hoax. The man will go down as an ass, there is no doubt.

Democracy is one of mankind's great ideas. It started AFAIK in Greece.

Edit, looking, I found this discussion:


Yea but covid was just a little bump... that is all it takes.

And democracy is something the people took for themselves with pitchforks and fire. Its an equilibrium between the power of the working people and the elite and dare I say that the power dynamics have changed. Technology. As you have just seen.

I think its over...
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
17,366
16,635
146
Yea but covid was just a little bump... that is all it takes.

And democracy is something the people took for themselves with pitchforks and fire. Its an equilibrium between the power of the working people and dare I say that the power dynamics have changed. Technology. As you have just seen.

I think its over...
Democracy dies when the people let the representatives forget who serves who.
 

NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,564
3,081
136
To compare the time when Biden stepped down in July versus having a proper primary back when it was supposed to happen it's just so intellectually dishonest.

That's actually what's like Maga here, how dishonest that comparison is.
But it's not. It's exactly how it's designed. Primaries are not required at all by either party. The only purpose of primaries is choosing deligates.. That's it. The RNC and the DNC chooses the canidate who will run via deligates, not the voters. If Trump stepped down, the RNC would have chosen their canidate without any input from the voters. If anyone wanted to run against Harris, they had equal chance to step up and campaign and try to gain the DNC deligate vote.. nobody did. It's not dishonest, it's how it's designed.. We the voters do not chose the canidate to represent any party, we never have. That is the purpose of the party national conventions because the party choses their canidate. The fact that Harris raised so much money in such little time from grassroots shows that not haveing a primary had nothing to do with the results.
 

NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,564
3,081
136
JFC you're a retard. Just gonna fight it to the death that the democrats did nothing wrong after they got skullfucked by a candidate most of the nation hates.
Where did I say that? Comprehension failure buddy. Calling you out for your clear lack of understanding of the purpose of primaries, or the fact that nobody challanged Harris for the nomination, doesn't equite to your bullshit interpretation.
 

akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
6,210
2,552
136
I bought an Elantra Hybrid for <$30k during some of the supply shortages, and it has a lot of nice features in the base model. Had to wait 6 months just to pay MSRP (and today, they are still available for <$30k). There are certainly vehicles out there new that don't cost an arm and a leg, but that generally means compromising a little on size and super premium fancy features.

Auto manufacturers have spent billions in very successful advertising over the last 20 years convincing Americans that they need and really want to buy larger and larger vehicles.

I don't want to get too sidetracked with the car topic.

I'm more of a Ford and Toyota guy. Not a fan of Korean cars.

The issue is, I'm in the market for a large car. With 3 kids, the missus, and sometimes having to drive around my MIL who has issues walking, I need a 3-row vehicle. Now, part of it is a me problem. I hate minivans, and I'm looking for a 3-row SUV. And SUV's seem to be some the costliest vehicles out there right now.
 
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Dec 10, 2005
28,638
13,742
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Something to keep in mind, at least when it comes to legislation, and that the fact that the House may only have a very narrow Republican majority this time around (though, currently undetermined thanks to outstanding vote counting):

1731205345920.png
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
15,965
11,110
136
Something to keep in mind, at least when it comes to legislation, and that the fact that the House may only have a very narrow Republican majority this time around (though, currently undetermined thanks to outstanding vote counting):

View attachment 111375


1731205661861.png

vindictive

This probably belongs in the CT thread but I bet he's scared of 25A again and giving Vance/ Thiel/ Elon all the power.

He'll appoint only 100% yes men and women.. so don't be surprised if you see Laura Loomer or MTG or Bobo as secretary of state/ homeland security etc..
 
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  • Wow
Reactions: Muse
Dec 10, 2005
28,638
13,742
136
View attachment 111376

vindictive

This probably belongs in the CT thread but I bet he's scared of 25A again and giving Vance/ Thiel/ Elon all the power.

He'll appoint only 100% yes men and women.. so don't be surprised if you see Laura Loomer or MTG or Bobo as secretary of state/ homeland security etc..
Yes, the appointment stuff and executive actions will be likely be bad. But at least from a Congress point of view, given the GOP's perpetual dysfunction with even a narrow current majority and past performance with wider majorities, we can at least expect Congress to not do too much.

It also highlights that a red wave didn't really produce a substantial swing in the makeup of the House.
 
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trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
15,780
8,352
136
Maybe the fact that Trump had his earlobe shot along with a couple of other attempts on his life gave him a lot more sympathy and support than it's been given credit for. Add in the humiliation his cultists experience every time he does something stupid and dangerous where they have to take the hits for him, that shit adds up over time where defending him simply became a stuck on stupid kneejerk response, with the additional hate added in for his tormentors that kept indicting him for the actual crimes he committed, of which his supporters only saw and personally felt the pain Trump must've gone through, never mind that actual crimes were committed by their savior.

There's also the resolute support the Christian Church gave to Trump, of which to this very day still seems to be a totally insane thing to do. I'd very much like to have a very authoritative Christian clergy explain that one to me. That's even more mysterious like how the dinosaurs fits in with their scripture.

Whatevers, it all really resembles a twisted bizarre case of Stockholm Syndrome of sorts.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
15,780
8,352
136
Those are very different phenomena. Meteors that fuck up bigtime are pretty rare. Wars not so much. Volcanos are limited in range. Climate change is our existential crisis. Trump calls it a hoax. The man will go down as an ass, there is no doubt.

Democracy is one of mankind's great ideas. It started AFAIK in Greece.

Edit, looking, I found this discussion:


Big picture-wise, certainly. But what I'd really like to see in the history books is that every time Trump's name is mentioned, the folks who enabled, aided and abetted his crime spree will be right there next to his name. He couldn't have committed any of those crimes he perpetrated while in office without his followers backing his play. They all deserve as much mention or even more than Trump will.

And let us all never forget what Mitch the Bitch McConnell did to so thoroughly corrupt the highest court of the land. He should have his very own chapter in our nation's historical records.

Last but not the very least, a very thorough dissertation should be inscribed within our nation's historical record of how the notorious Freedom Caucus derailed the work of Congress at every opportunity they could muster against their own party, all at the direction of one Donald Trump.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,723
10,026
136
There is an uncomfortable talk we have not had yet.

If all it takes is a momentary dip in living standards for democracy to kill itself off... Then this was always going to happen. Be it war volcano meteor or climate change. My logic circuits pretty much all line up that democracy is an unstable local minimum. How can it not be.
By redefining freedom.

We pushed anarchy too far. There must be structure and order in how we ALLOW communication in the first place. In how we TEACH our students to THINK.
Idiocracy was never inevitable. Just for us in our grand Ego driven stupidity at letting propaganda and division run wild.

Division of ideas is fine.
Division of reality is not.

We had to redefine our Bill of Rights to account for the true nature of mankind. Our founders were far too kind, a product of their tech or lackthereof. In our time we needed FAR stronger protections.
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,975
1,175
126
The election is over isn't it? I'm still getting fundraising emails.

Are they from Trump's team? This is about the time when he starts to lie about working for free for the next 4 years. "Because of how much I love this country, I'm not taking a single dollar salary while I'm president. Since I'm working for free, please consider donating money to me, k-thx!"
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
13,259
4,035
136
If Biden ran even a point or two behind what she managed there would be huge down ballot carnage. My only real disappointment is Casey losing. Considering the time allotted and inherited environment I have no substantial complaints about her campaign.
IMHO she ran a good campaign. That doesn't change the fact that she's just not a good candidate because Muricans won't vote for a Black woman. It sucks, but that's the reality. It's no mere coincidence that Trump defeated two women in general elections, and lost to a white man.**

Heck when a lot of people who actually voted for her say she isn't great, just imagine all the unwashed masses who didn't vote for her. I have no beef with Harris, but would I have supported her in an open primary? No. After she took over for Joe Biden in July, you had a member here who swears he's always voted (D) for President and then proceeded to say he didn't know whether Harris or Trump is worse. Like really?

I'm sorry but it's lunacy for some people here to claim she was a really good candidate when she straight up lost the national PV. I was happy to vote for Harris because I know what she stands for, but that doesn't mean she was the right person to win.* I understand she was the logical choice in mid July, and she was dealt a very difficult hand. As others here have alluded to, you could argue Joe Biden's legacy was the biggest loser in this election (besides the American people).

* Recall that Joe Biden's essential argument in 2020 is that he could recapture swing voters to beat DJT. Hindsight is 20/20 but Harris cannot make that argument.
** Knowing this, would you want Whitmer at the top of the ticket in 2028? Sounds dicey, no?
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,866
10,221
136
Nah.. honestly don't care anymore. Let the gop have the keys to the car and crash it. Sometimes you gotta let your kids smoke the pack of cigarettes
Lost my 1st car that way, don't hand my keys to people now. No cigarettes allowed in my house. But no kids, so there's that. It get it, life goes on, regardless. Like I told a friend a day or two after the 2016 General in an email:

"The Soul of Sweet Delight can never be defiled." - William Blake

There's a Kris Kristopherson tribute compilation that came out some years ago. The title is "Don't Let the Bastards Get You Down."
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,866
10,221
136
View attachment 111376

vindictive

This probably belongs in the CT thread but I bet he's scared of 25A again and giving Vance/ Thiel/ Elon all the power.

He'll appoint only 100% yes men and women.. so don't be surprised if you see Laura Loomer or MTG or Bobo as secretary of state/ homeland security etc..
MTG is a straight up lunatic. She has a lot in common with Trump in that they are very uneducated and will echo very stupid ideas. But allowing her to run an agency is tantamount to letting a leopard loose in a henhouse. If Trump wants to destroy an agency, that would be a good start, and a very bad look for him. :imp:
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,777
6,338
126
Anybody remember GM, Chrysler, AIG etc. in 2008-2009? That is a form of nationalization, just coached in another term, bailouts.
Amtrak was a nationalization of multiple passenger railroads in the 70's.
A lot of industries got nationalized during WW1 and WW2.

Technically anytime the government uses eminent domain to seize private property, that is nationalization.

A HISTORY OF NATIONALIZATION IN THE UNITED STATES
The bailouts purposely avoided Nationalization. They provided life support for necessary industry, but left them independent in every way other than having a Loan to repay.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
17,366
16,635
146
By redefining freedom.

We pushed anarchy too far. There must be structure and order in how we ALLOW communication in the first place. In how we TEACH our students to THINK.
Idiocracy was never inevitable. Just for us in our grand Ego driven stupidity at letting propaganda and division run wild.

Division of ideas is fine.
Division of reality is not.

We had to redefine our Bill of Rights to account for the true nature of mankind. Our founders were far too kind, a product of their tech or lackthereof. In our time we needed FAR stronger protections.
Republicans used to be smart enough to actually debate the merits of an idea and offer an alternative. Murdoch made them all dumber, and only asked that they say the opposite of what Democrats said.

I do suspect the founders never imagined people would just get so damned stupid. It's like designing a system of government that Pakleds can upkeep.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,601
46,253
136
I'm sorry but it's lunacy for some people here to claim she was a really good candidate when she straight up lost the national PV. I was happy to vote for Harris because I know what she stands for, but that doesn't mean she was the right person to win.* I understand she was the logical choice in mid July, and she was dealt a very difficult hand. As others here have alluded to, you could argue Joe Biden's legacy was the biggest loser in this election (besides the American people).

Clinton was a 2.1 point PV winner and the overwhelming opinion was not that she was a good candidate. Environment shifts are real and that's what felled Trump in 20 due to wide disapproval of how he managed COVID.
 
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dlerious

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2004
2,118
932
136
Are they from Trump's team? This is about the time when he starts to lie about working for free for the next 4 years. "Because of how much I love this country, I'm not taking a single dollar salary while I'm president. Since I'm working for free, please consider donating money to me, k-thx!"
No, the Democrats. Everything from the Republicans is snail mail. I made contributions thru act blue back in '16 and I've been getting emails from everyone and their brother ever since. None of them honor unsubscribe requests, so I had to start marking all political mail as spam. If I remember, the last one asked for $50 for the democratic party to help protect their victories.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
17,366
16,635
146
No, the Democrats. Everything from the Republicans is snail mail. I made contributions thru act blue back in '16 and I've been getting emails from everyone and their brother ever since. None of them honor unsubscribe requests, so I had to start marking all political mail as spam. If I remember, the last one asked for $50 for the democratic party to help protect their victories.
Can you confirm it was actually from a legitimate Democrat institution? There's a lot of scams that run around during election cycles.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
6,370
2,578
136
The bailouts purposely avoided Nationalization. They provided life support for necessary industry, but left them independent in every way other than having a Loan to repay.

Sure seems like nationalization as to what happened to GM.

The centerpiece of the Obama administration’s plan to save GM and Chrysler was nationalization via the bankruptcy court. On June 1, 2009, General Motors—one of the largest and most historically iconic manufacturing companies in the United States—filed for bankruptcy in New York (and was subsequently delisted from the New York Stock Exchange). The Treasury Department provided $30.1 billion in “debtor-in-procession financing” to fund the companyas it went through the bankruptcy process (in order to avoid a complete liquidation of its assets).187 As part of this process, the government establisheda new company (NGMCO, Inc. or New GM colloquially) that was 60.8 percentowned by the US federal government, 11.7 percent owned by the governmentsof Canada and Ontario, and 17.5 percent owned by the UAW through theirretiree healthcare fund (VEBA). Old GM (Motors Liquidation Company) thentransferred various assets to New GM via a “363 sale” (an asset sale undersection 363 of the bankruptcy code) while others were sold off, and New GMassumed the name (and trademark) of General Motors Company—thus completing the transfer to government ownership.188 In 2010, new GM conductedan IPO that reduced the government’s ownership stake to 33 percent and bythe end of 2013 the government had sold off the remainder of its shares.189Given that the government took an overall loss of around $10 billion-$11 billionon the auto bailout, there was criticism that it was too hasty to sell its sharesin GM, and should have held on to them for longer in order to fully recouppublic funds
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
15,142
10,039
136
All the post-election analysis I've heard seems to emphasize that Trump gained support in pretty much _every_ demographic group (including ethnic minority voters, including the young, including women). Confounding all the previous assumptions about the 'ceiling' to his potential support.

He now has near total control of every part of the US system, with almost no brakes on his power (other than his own laziness and chaotic mental state). There's barely anything left of the 'never-Trump' Republican Party.
 
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