Just watched "An Inconvenient Truth"

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Vic
First, science is not something you "believe" in. When you talk about believers and non-believers, you're no longer talking science.

It is possible to believe or disbelieve a particular scientific theory.

True, but belief or disbelief has nothing to do with the validity of a scientific theory. Religions owe their validity to consensus, not science.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

While I believe in global warming, Gore is full of crap and pulling scare tactics not unlike the Republicans on terrorism.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: Vic
No, that's fear of change.

So all fears are 'fear of change' then? Is a fear of the 'change' from being alive to being dead unfounded in your book?

I've spent most of my life on some of the youngest land on earth (the Pacific NW west of the Cascade Mountains).It was under the ocean some 20 million years ago. Then there were the great Missoula floods after the last ice age. And lastly was the Bonneville flood less than 500 years ago. On and on.
It's possible that stopping global warming may be as impossible as stopping volcanoes from erupting, and just as ridiculous to attempt to do so.

... What?

That has nothing to do with your claim that global warming will not present a problem under X circumstances. And you still haven't told me what X is.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Vic
First, science is not something you "believe" in. When you talk about believers and non-believers, you're no longer talking science.

It is possible to believe or disbelieve a particular scientific theory.

True, but belief or disbelief has nothing to do with the validity of a scientific theory. Religions owe their validity to consensus, not science.

I don't think anyone here has claimed that belief influences the validity of scientific theory.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Vic
No, that's fear of change.

So all fears are 'fear of change' then? Is a fear of the 'change' from being alive to being dead unfounded in your book?

I've spent most of my life on some of the youngest land on earth (the Pacific NW west of the Cascade Mountains).It was under the ocean some 20 million years ago. Then there were the great Missoula floods after the last ice age. And lastly was the Bonneville flood less than 500 years ago. On and on.
It's possible that stopping global warming may be as impossible as stopping volcanoes from erupting, and just as ridiculous to attempt to do so.

... What?

That has nothing to do with your claim that global warming will not present a problem under X circumstances. And you still haven't told me what X is.

NO ONE knows what X is. That's the point. It's all guesswork and speculation at this point. We could be flooded under or it could be the next ice age. Or it might not be bad at all. You fear what to you is unknown, and claim we need to interfere in what we don't even understand. IMO this type of alarmist attitude is not much different that the Smokey the Bear crusades of a few decades ago. Yeah, and how is the health of our forests now?

 

[foghorn67]

Even if I thought humans contributed to most of the climate change, I would still hate Gore.
The Kyoto treaty was written by children. Only a bunch of morons could overlook so much.

 

[0roo0roo]

how much of the middle east will end up underwater is what i want to know

 

[mercanucaribe]

Vic, it's not natural change. Your house gets warmer as the day goes on, does that mean it's okay if hour house is on fire?

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Vic
Global warming exists and may present a problem.

I'd like to know under what circumstances it wouldn't present a problem.

There are as many circumstances for why it wouldn't as to why it would. Change is natural, normal, and inevitable. Fearing change is a sign of an immature mind.

If it gets any warmer then major inhabited areas will be underwater - how is that not a problem? That's not fear of change, that's fear of being underwater.

No, that's fear of change. I've spent most of my life on some of the youngest land on earth (the Pacific NW west of the Cascade Mountains). It was under the ocean some 20 million years ago. Then there were the great Missoula floods after the last ice age. And lastly was the Bonneville flood less than 500 years ago. On and on.
It's possible that stopping global warming may be as impossible as stopping volcanoes from erupting, and just as ridiculous to attempt to do so.

When you're on the highway, you're constantly varying the power to keep a safe distance from the car in front. Central banks change the interest rates constantly to try and keep the economy going at a steady rate, why should our management of the environment be any different?
You're right fear of change, however that is the reason why poeple dislike the idea of global warming - it would require them to change (if only slightly) the way they live. When the Fed changes rates, do you deride them for their fear or change?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Vic, it's not natural change. Your house gets warmer as the day goes on, does that mean it's okay if hour house is on fire?

And who says it's not just getting warmer outside? You. don't. know. That's where the debate lies. I'm not pretending to know either way. You are.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Vic, it's not natural change. Your house gets warmer as the day goes on, does that mean it's okay if hour house is on fire?

And who says it's not just getting warmer outside? You. don't. know. That's where the debate lies. I'm not pretending to know either way. You are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Carbon_Dioxide_400kyr.png

Is CO2 a greenhouse gas?

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Vic, it's not natural change. Your house gets warmer as the day goes on, does that mean it's okay if hour house is on fire?

And who says it's not just getting warmer outside? You. don't. know. That's where the debate lies. I'm not pretending to know either way. You are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Carbon_Dioxide_400kyr.png

Is CO2 a greenhouse gas?

It IS getting warmer on average. You can SEE the change from satellites. It is not based on models of CO2's greenhouse effect. It's also apparent in ice cores. Temperature changes the ratio of oxygen to oxygen isotopes, serving as a proxy for average temperatures.

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: AnthroAndStargate
Hrmmm - take some Environmental Science classes, you nubs. Most enviro scientists agree that if a 3 degree spike in temperature happens many parts of the Earth will be under water, like Texas, Flordia, China, etc. Who cares about Al Gore... quit spouting whatever Limbaugh says.

3 degrees? That is a bunch of alarmist, environmental whacko BullSh!t. Use your brain for a second instead of just being a sheep. 3 degrees is like going from Milwaukee to Chicago. Heck, it's like moving 5 miles outside of NYC in the summer. 3 degrees is not nearly enough to flood many parts of the earth. If the average temperature in Antarctica moves from 0 degrees F to 3 degrees F, do you really think that millions of tons of ice is going to melt? NO. Ice doesn't melt until it hits 32 degrees. In fact, Antarctica is COOLING right now.

So quit being a fearmonger and do some research from people without a political agenda before making stupid statements like that.

 

[MmmSkyscraper]

Originally posted by: Compton
Vote for me and I will stop global warming!

I will fix the planet!

Can you fix my car too?

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Vic
No, that's fear of change.

So all fears are 'fear of change' then? Is a fear of the 'change' from being alive to being dead unfounded in your book?

I've spent most of my life on some of the youngest land on earth (the Pacific NW west of the Cascade Mountains).It was under the ocean some 20 million years ago. Then there were the great Missoula floods after the last ice age. And lastly was the Bonneville flood less than 500 years ago. On and on.
It's possible that stopping global warming may be as impossible as stopping volcanoes from erupting, and just as ridiculous to attempt to do so.

... What?

That has nothing to do with your claim that global warming will not present a problem under X circumstances. And you still haven't told me what X is.

NO ONE knows what X is. That's the point. It's all guesswork and speculation at this point. We could be flooded under or it could be the next ice age. Or it might not be bad at all. You fear what to you is unknown, and claim we need to interfere in what we don't even understand. IMO this type of alarmist attitude is not much different that the Smokey the Bear crusades of a few decades ago. Yeah, and how is the health of our forests now?

Claiming that it might be the next ice age is not relevant to this argument. You stated that global warming would not be a problem under certain circumstances - this assumes warming is taking place. Do you have an example where warming would not cause a problem?

Personally I think the earth is warming, but y'know, that's only because I believe my thermometer. It's possible my thermometer is under the control of of some left-wing organisation of course...

 

[Hellotalkie]

Right now its like 60 degrees around the east coast. Thats very warm for november/december

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: cr2250
Right now its like 60 degrees around the east coast. Thats very warm for november/december

It's also snowing on the west coast...that's cold for november.
Day to day temperatures are useless.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Vic
No, that's fear of change.

So all fears are 'fear of change' then? Is a fear of the 'change' from being alive to being dead unfounded in your book?

I've spent most of my life on some of the youngest land on earth (the Pacific NW west of the Cascade Mountains).It was under the ocean some 20 million years ago. Then there were the great Missoula floods after the last ice age. And lastly was the Bonneville flood less than 500 years ago. On and on.
It's possible that stopping global warming may be as impossible as stopping volcanoes from erupting, and just as ridiculous to attempt to do so.

... What?

That has nothing to do with your claim that global warming will not present a problem under X circumstances. And you still haven't told me what X is.

NO ONE knows what X is. That's the point. It's all guesswork and speculation at this point. We could be flooded under or it could be the next ice age. Or it might not be bad at all. You fear what to you is unknown, and claim we need to interfere in what we don't even understand. IMO this type of alarmist attitude is not much different that the Smokey the Bear crusades of a few decades ago. Yeah, and how is the health of our forests now?

Claiming that it might be the next ice age is not relevant to this argument. You stated that global warming would not be a problem under certain circumstances - this assumes warming is taking place. Do you have an example where warming would not cause a problem?

Personally I think the earth is warming, but y'know, that's only because I believe my thermometer. It's possible my thermometer is under the control of of some left-wing organisation of course...

My thermometer shows no changes in temperature. At least none that show warmer weather. The mountains in my area got ski-able snow on them by Thanksgiving, as usual, and we're due to get an unusual snow down in the valley tonight. Is the weather in my area under the control of some right-wing organization? :roll:

So what you think personally is utterly irrelevant to this issue.

And because I happen to like warm weather, I could think of a hundred circumstances where global warming might be a good thing. It would certainly be better IMO than global cooling.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: Vic
My thermometer shows no changes in temperature. At least none that show warmer weather.

http://dels.nas.edu/dels/rpt_briefs/Surface_Temps_final.pdf

Look at the graph. Look at all the other graphs out there. The Earth is warming overall, maybe not so much in your particular area, but much more in others. Really it is.

So what you think personally is utterly irrelevant to this issue.

Of course, because we're not arguing about whether the Earth is warming, that's just pointless...

All the data says it's warming. You can argue humans aren't causing it, you can argue it doesn't matter, but you can't argue it isn't happening.

And because I happen to like warm weather, I could think of a hundred circumstances where global warming might be a good thing. It would certainly be better IMO than global cooling.

Even if you're looking at this completely selfishly, and you would like your cool inland area to become a bit hotter, you would still be adversely affected. All the people who used to live in Africa (now waterless) or coastal areas (now ocean) have got to go somewhere right? And that's your nice cool inland area.

 

[Vic]

You can argue humans aren't causing it, you can argue it doesn't matter, but you can't argue it isn't happening.

When did I ever do that? Oh that's right, I didn't.

Fearmongerers are such sh!theads.

 

[Connoisseur]

Originally posted by: XZeroII
3 degrees? That is a bunch of alarmist, environmental whacko BullSh!t. Use your brain for a second instead of just being a sheep. 3 degrees is like going from Milwaukee to Chicago. Heck, it's like moving 5 miles outside of NYC in the summer. 3 degrees is not nearly enough to flood many parts of the earth. If the average temperature in Antarctica moves from 0 degrees F to 3 degrees F, do you really think that millions of tons of ice is going to melt? NO. Ice doesn't melt until it hits 32 degrees. In fact, Antarctica is COOLING right now.

So quit being a fearmonger and do some research from people without a political agenda before making stupid statements like that.

Well in defense of 3 degrees... that can be a lot when going from 30F to 33F. Stuff generally starts melting around then. Also, from what i've read and heard (and no I am by no means any kind of environmental expert, I only watch the discovery channel), 3 degrees can cause a significant change in tidal patterns which essentially regulate much of the earth's temps.

The way I see the topic is that advocates of the "manmade global warming" theory state that we're leading the world to disaster. Critics state that the temp rise isn't caused by man. A lot of people here are, in addition, saying that even if global warming is caused by man, it may or may not be a good thing. True, we don't know but I would think that at least removing or minimizing the human factor of warming could let us understand the long term climate changes of nature itself (sort of letting nature take its own course). Hey, if we do find out that the earth's headed for an ice age, i'm sure we won't have too much trouble pumping out greenhouse gases so fast that we could bill the earth as a galactic sauna.

 

[MotionMan]

When I was in school, I learned about the impending Ice Age (no, not the movie).
My kids will learn about the impending Global Warming.
I guess my grandkids will learn about the impending Ice Age again.

Reminds me of the line from 1984: "We are at war with Oceana, we have always been at war with Oceana." Except, that we have not always been at war with Oceana, and we have not and will not always be at risk of Global Warming. Wait a few years and we can all fear an Ice Age again.

MotionMan

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: AnthroAndStargate
Hrmmm - take some Environmental Science classes, you nubs. Most enviro scientists agree that if a 3 degree spike in temperature happens many parts of the Earth will be under water, like Texas, Flordia, China, etc. Who cares about Al Gore... quit spouting whatever Limbaugh says.

3 degrees? That is a bunch of alarmist, environmental whacko BullSh!t. Use your brain for a second instead of just being a sheep. 3 degrees is like going from Milwaukee to Chicago. Heck, it's like moving 5 miles outside of NYC in the summer. 3 degrees is not nearly enough to flood many parts of the earth. If the average temperature in Antarctica moves from 0 degrees F to 3 degrees F, do you really think that millions of tons of ice is going to melt? NO. Ice doesn't melt until it hits 32 degrees. In fact, Antarctica is COOLING right now.

So quit being a fearmonger and do some research from people without a political agenda before making stupid statements like that.

3 degrees is a huge difference. The difference between the last ice age and now is only 2 or 3 degrees IIRC.

Species are already shifting ranges along latitudes and altitudes because of global warming.

 

[mercanucaribe]

http://vathena.arc.nasa.gov/curric/land/global/climchng.html

"These two figures show former temperatures with major periods of glaciation labeled. The dashed lines are the present global average temperature of about 15° C (59° F). Thus the solid curves show small changes from this average; note that the temperature drops only about 5° C during a glaciation. This has occurred about every 100,000 years, with smaller wiggles in between."

 

[eits]

i laugh everytime i hear garbage like:

..he's been running around with that goober warming alarmist crap for years. Now he's supported by the hollywood idiots. It's nothing more then a "Convenient Deception" supported by alarmist enviro wacko's.

haha fvcking idiots...