Just want to cry

[DainBramaged]

Originally posted by: JS80
i blame the unions

I blame the scabs

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: TheLonelyPhoenix
Your friend drove 1200 miles to buy a more fuel-efficient vehicle, which he will have to drive well over 100k miles before he makes back the $7-8k extra he paid over a Civic.

Consumerism stupidity at its finest.

its a kewl gadget car. its voting with your wallet for more hybrid vehicle development. its not about saving money straight off. and no, a civic isn't really comparable since thats slightly smaller.

and well for saving money you'd have to cross off all suvs/sports cars etc off buying lists too

as for driving 600 miles, he used what? 12gallons at 50mpg? an suv woulda ate 30 gallons at 20mpg. so it doesn't take long for an suv owner who bought his tank from the dealer around the corner to guzzle past the prius owner who drove 600 miles initially to get his vehicle math people..math.

Originally posted by: mugs
That sh!tty website resized my browser window. If you're going to do that, do it in a pop-up. I'm still trying to find the fuel economy ratings.

Edit: 60 mpg? You could probably get darn near that in a Ford Festiva or a Geo Metro

geo metro is 50mpg
geo metro is also a pos.
its tiny compared to the prius, the prius has the interior room of a camry. the geo metro is what? sub sub compact?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Squisher

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: mugs
Why? Because you'd have to be a retard or a hippie or someone who cares only about appearances to buy a Prius.

Pretty ironic that your friend drove 1200 miles round trip to get one. So much for saving gas.

Bullsh!t. What's wrong with saving some money on gas? If you're going to buy a car anyway and you drive a lot there's nothing wrong with buying a Prius.

Your generalizations about the people who buy these cars is utterly ridiculous. :thumbsdown:

Because, you're not saving money until you drive the car 100K mi. and you can save as much money on gas and have a better driving experience with other cars.

So, the only reason to buy one is to impress your similarly deluded hippy friends.

That assumes a constant price of Gas.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Squisher

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: mugs
Why? Because you'd have to be a retard or a hippie or someone who cares only about appearances to buy a Prius.

Pretty ironic that your friend drove 1200 miles round trip to get one. So much for saving gas.

Bullsh!t. What's wrong with saving some money on gas? If you're going to buy a car anyway and you drive a lot there's nothing wrong with buying a Prius.

Your generalizations about the people who buy these cars is utterly ridiculous. :thumbsdown:

Because, you're not saving money until you drive the car 100K mi. and you can save as much money on gas and have a better driving experience with other cars.

So, the only reason to buy one is to impress your similarly deluded hippy friends.

ugh save as much gas and better driving experience? where? and don't give me some sh*t car thats smaller than a prius.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
the geo metro is what? sub sub compact?

extreme 'budget'


and i am not impressed with the hybred's gas mileage . . . you get 35MPG from comparable cars at thousands less

unless i am mistaken, the Prius gets better 'in town' mileage than highway . . . .something to consider based on your commute

 

[Solarium]

I don't get it.. Isn't the Prius's interior almost as large as a camry? It has more space and stuff than a Civic, and plus, plenty of people drive over 100k miles.

It still may not be worth it completely yet, but it's pretty close, and in the future, will most likely be worth it.

 

[0roo0roo]

hah touring edition, didn't know it was out
http://www.toyota.com/prius/models.html
hids and bigger rims

 

[EarthwormJim]

Originally posted by: acemcmac

Originally posted by: skyking
the 100K mile argument is a laughable one. I drive all my cars 200k at least, and they can go the distance due to quality. I don't fit comfortably into a prius and I don't buy new, or it would be on the short list.

No, it's laughable because after you replace that $8000 battery in 4-6 years, or 100k miles, you just lost all of your fuel economy savings. The prius is an insult to anyone who can do math and in my experience driving it, it's NEEDLESSLY complicated. LCD radio and climate control? Can't work the nav system over 3mph? WTF?

O'rly?

"Hybrid-Related Component Coverage: Prius' hybrid-related components, including the HV battery, battery control module, hybrid control module and inverter with converter, are covered for 8 years/100,000 miles. The HV battery may have longer coverage under emissions warranty."

 

[0roo0roo]

just thought i'd work it out.

prius gas 55mpg~ / 100,000 miles = 1818 gallons
suv gas 20mpg~ / 100,000 miles = 5000 gallons

now all those bitching about 600 miles making for hipocrisy making u want to cry....add that 12 gallons to the prius number...oh wow who's crying now dumbass.

and thats being charitable. the ford explorer is 15city/21highway 17 combined. and thats for the wimpy 2 wheel drive model. i used the combined figure for the prius. so really over 100,000 miles the 2 wd ford explorer would use 5882 gallons

thats right..over 3 times more gasoline.

 

[iamwiz82]

I heard that they can beat a Lamborghini in a race from 0-6.

 

[Bateluer]

I still have plenty of life left in my 2000 Corolla, so I won't be buying any new vehicles for a few more years. Since I put miles on slowly, the Corolla should last long enough for Hybrids to increase in efficiency and come down in price. Hopefully, they'll also be more alternative vehicles on the market by then as well.

I'm not understanding this 100k cost effectiveness argument. In the OPs cost, the long drive to get one negated any immediate benefits. But if I were to buy one now from a local dealership for say 23k USD, I would immediately begin saving money on gas over my corolla. Since a lot of new vehicles cost over 23k as well, thats not an issue.

What we need is for gas prices to slowly rise to about 3.50/gal and stay there for a few months. Then drop to 3.15 for a month, then rise back up to 3.50 and slowly increase to 3.75. Repeat the pattern for a while, rise, drop, rise more, drop a little, rise more, drop a little. Eventually people start thinking of the 'drop a little' price as cheap gas. When gas prices go up, people start looking at efficient vehicles, auto makers start designing more efficient autos, sales of SUVs and other inefficient vehicles drop.

 

[0roo0roo]

yea meh its going to keep going up. i remember when i was upset prices were going up, and it was 1.50~ gallon

 

[biggestmuff]

Originally posted by: randym431
A friend just got the toyota prius link

All I can say is WHY is the US auto industry not in front on this?
Why did my friend have to drive 600 miles to get one, made by toyota, and not Ford or GM or "some" US auto maker???

The take holds 12 gallons. They filled up and drove the 600 miles back and still had plenty of gas in the tank. This car is just so nice. Its a crying shame US auto makers rather lay off auto workers because the industry will not change and give the people what they want. Really sad, but the car is great!

Check out the inside 360 view on their site...WOW

Just want to cry? Go ahead. I'll continue purchasing German and other non-US cars.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
as you know.. for many on AT, a car that can have some fun (and has soul) counts for something, not just straight MPG

your argument is FLAWED . . . SUVs are still the most popular vehicle . . . no fun . . . no soul

i think you missed th epart where it says 'FOR MANY ON AT'

this is a place that, according to polls i've taken, has a much higher rate of manual transmission ownership than the general populace.

i'd also be that AT has much higher sports/fun car ownership rate than the general populace.

so, the only thing flawed here is your reading comprehension.

 

[shabby]

Lets try some math here on the benefits(or lack of) of hybrids.

Civic sedan base - $15010 - 30/40 city/hwy mpg so 35mpg avg
Civic hybrid base - $22150 - 49/51 city/hwy mpg so 50mpg avg

Using 0roo0roo's formula we get...
Civic sedan 35mpg/100,000 miles = 2857 gallons
Civic hybrid 50mpg/100,000 miles = 2000 gallons

Civic sedan uses 2857 gallons x $2.5 per gallon = $7142 of fuel for 100,000 miles
Civic hybrid uses 2000 gallons x $2.5 per gallon = $5000 of fuel for 100,000 miles

Every 100,000 miles you save $2142 with the hybrid, however since the hybrid costs $7140 more from the start you would have to drive the hybrid 333,333 miles so you could offset its higher price.
I dont know about you but im not gonna drive a car for over 25 years. If hybrids were the same price as the current car then it would make sense, but since they're not it doesnt. Only to the tree huggers it does, but theres not many of those so who cares.

 

[SamurAchzar]

The US auto industry cares about money. They have no vision whatsoever. That's why unless the consumers press - which they do, usually by buying foreign - they'll keep pumping out the same sorry sh!t.
I'm used to Euro cars, and the fact of driving a US vehicle - ANY vehicle - sends shivers down my spine. Cheap interior, bad design, floaty sickening ride, no steering feel, ancient engines and transmissions.

The US Auto industry made big $ out of SUVs and trucks. A vehicle like the F150 is super cheap to make (being based on a primitive ladder-frame structure, much like full size trucks, not unibody like normal cars) and sells for good $. Why would they want to change that?

The market share of the big 3 has been shrinking for quite a while now and if not for SUVs, they would be in a critical situation long ago. Ford is loosing biliions, so does GM.

The good news are that the shakedown has been going on for quite a while now and like any other industry, US could lead the pack. I'm all for the US, but it'll take some time.

 

[Aharami]

wtf that site doesnt work well with firefox

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
The US auto industry cares about money. They have no vision whatsoever. That's why unless the consumers press - which they do, usually by buying foreign - they'll keep pumping out the same sorry sh!t.
I'm used to Euro cars, and the fact of driving a US vehicle - ANY vehicle - sends shivers down my spine. Cheap interior, bad design, floaty sickening ride, no steering feel, ancient engines and transmissions.

The US Auto industry made big $ out of SUVs and trucks. A vehicle like the F150 is super cheap to make (being based on a primitive ladder-frame structure, much like full size trucks, not unibody like normal cars) and sells for good $. Why would they want to change that?

The market share of the big 3 has been shrinking for quite a while now and if not for SUVs, they would be in a critical situation long ago. Ford is loosing biliions, so does GM.

The good news are that the shakedown has been going on for quite a while now and like any other industry, US could lead the pack. I'm all for the US, but it'll take some time.

LOL... they're doing a pretty bad job of caring only about money if they've lost their vision for what their customers want and are losing market share because of that...

 

[AbAbber2k]

This thread cracks me up. So if you buy a hybrid to save money on gas you're an idiot that sucks at math (ZOMG U HAVE 2 DRIVE LIEK ELEVENTY BILLION MILES FRIST!@1evelen). However, if you buy a hybrid because you're environmentally concious then you're a smug asshole. Some of you people are utterly rediculous. It's not wonder there's been so little progress in the US auto industry. Ignorant fvcktards like you make it easy for auto manufacturers and oil companies to stick with their same old dinosauric bullsh1t.

Oh, and I think mugs wins "Ignorant Douchebag of the Day" with his two posts on page 1. :roll:

 

[Aftermath]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
The US auto industry cares about money. They have no vision whatsoever. That's why unless the consumers press - which they do, usually by buying foreign - they'll keep pumping out the same sorry sh!t.
I'm used to Euro cars, and the fact of driving a US vehicle - ANY vehicle - sends shivers down my spine. Cheap interior, bad design, floaty sickening ride, no steering feel, ancient engines and transmissions.

The US Auto industry made big $ out of SUVs and trucks. A vehicle like the F150 is super cheap to make (being based on a primitive ladder-frame structure, much like full size trucks, not unibody like normal cars) and sells for good $. Why would they want to change that?

The market share of the big 3 has been shrinking for quite a while now and if not for SUVs, they would be in a critical situation long ago. Ford is loosing biliions, so does GM.

The good news are that the shakedown has been going on for quite a while now and like any other industry, US could lead the pack. I'm all for the US, but it'll take some time.

GM and Ford are fighting a lot of perception and hate problems, keep that in mind. There some good vehicles coming out of both companies that might not grab and bewilder people who normally buy imports, but are a far cry from the cars they were building 10, even 5 years ago. That's in the face of constantly fighting an uphill battle with budgets and selling cars at a loss while competing against import companies that are easily pulling profits. They're doing a damn good job with what they have availible, especially GM. It might not look it now, but wait a couple of years. Especially once we have the new Malibu, Impala, G8/Grand Prix, and Camaro on the streets.

I just hope some people will be able to get over themselves and their fanboyism, at least enough to go down to a domestic dealership and try out some new cars with a true sense of wanting to like those cars. It would probably be a nice boost to overall morale in this country to have more things to feel good about. Like a profitable, growing automotive industry that you feel proud to support.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
The US auto industry cares about money. They have no vision whatsoever. That's why unless the consumers press - which they do, usually by buying foreign - they'll keep pumping out the same sorry sh!t.
I'm used to Euro cars, and the fact of driving a US vehicle - ANY vehicle - sends shivers down my spine. Cheap interior, bad design, floaty sickening ride, no steering feel, ancient engines and transmissions.

The US Auto industry made big $ out of SUVs and trucks. A vehicle like the F150 is super cheap to make (being based on a primitive ladder-frame structure, much like full size trucks, not unibody like normal cars) and sells for good $. Why would they want to change that?

The market share of the big 3 has been shrinking for quite a while now and if not for SUVs, they would be in a critical situation long ago. Ford is loosing biliions, so does GM.

The good news are that the shakedown has been going on for quite a while now and like any other industry, US could lead the pack. I'm all for the US, but it'll take some time.

LOL... they're doing a pretty bad job of caring only about money if they've lost their vision for what their customers want and are losing market share because of that...

There's no contradiction. Like any good ol' greedy industry (oil, for example), they're thinking about short term revenues and relying too much on the customer stupidity to make $. They focused on SUVs and light trucks because that's where the big money was; Sure, their overall market share is dropping but they make good $ in the meantime.
After all, their market share was dropping ever since the Japanese came to the US, and yet there was no significant change until lately.

Now SUVs are on the fall, and the US auto industry is caught with the pants down. They have lots of catching up to do for making Euro quality cars. Hybrid is nice and trendy, but accounts for a very small margain of the profits. The Prius costs as much because it's an awfully expensive system to produce and develop.
Let them sort their bread and butter cars first.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: Aftermath

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
The US auto industry cares about money. They have no vision whatsoever. That's why unless the consumers press - which they do, usually by buying foreign - they'll keep pumping out the same sorry sh!t.
I'm used to Euro cars, and the fact of driving a US vehicle - ANY vehicle - sends shivers down my spine. Cheap interior, bad design, floaty sickening ride, no steering feel, ancient engines and transmissions.

The US Auto industry made big $ out of SUVs and trucks. A vehicle like the F150 is super cheap to make (being based on a primitive ladder-frame structure, much like full size trucks, not unibody like normal cars) and sells for good $. Why would they want to change that?

The market share of the big 3 has been shrinking for quite a while now and if not for SUVs, they would be in a critical situation long ago. Ford is loosing biliions, so does GM.

The good news are that the shakedown has been going on for quite a while now and like any other industry, US could lead the pack. I'm all for the US, but it'll take some time.

GM and Ford are fighting a lot of perception and hate problems, keep that in mind. There some good vehicles coming out of both companies that might not grab and bewilder people who normally buy imports, but are a far cry from the cars they were building 10, even 5 years ago. That's in the face of constantly fighting an uphill battle with budgets and selling cars at a loss while competing against import companies that are easily pulling profits. They're doing a damn good job with what they have availible, especially GM. It might not look it now, but wait a couple of years. Especially once we have the new Malibu, Impala, G8/Grand Prix, and Camaro on the streets.

I just hope some people will be able to get over themselves and their fanboyism, at least enough to go down to a domestic dealership and try out some new cars with a true sense of wanting to like those cars. It would probably be a nice boost to overall morale in this country to have more things to feel good about. Like a profitable, growing Automotive industry that you feel proud to support.

I agree, vehicles now are light years ahead of what they made 10 years ago, usually; But you still wouldn't mistake an Impala for a BMW, especially not from the drivers seat.

It seems like that in order to have a chance at this uphill battle, they have to acquire European expertise, probably by merging. Chrysler did that already, GM is about to, and Ford has the good cars but on the other side of the pond - they need to learn something from their excellent European product line.

 

[Aftermath]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: Aftermath

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
The US auto industry cares about money. They have no vision whatsoever. That's why unless the consumers press - which they do, usually by buying foreign - they'll keep pumping out the same sorry sh!t.
I'm used to Euro cars, and the fact of driving a US vehicle - ANY vehicle - sends shivers down my spine. Cheap interior, bad design, floaty sickening ride, no steering feel, ancient engines and transmissions.

The US Auto industry made big $ out of SUVs and trucks. A vehicle like the F150 is super cheap to make (being based on a primitive ladder-frame structure, much like full size trucks, not unibody like normal cars) and sells for good $. Why would they want to change that?

The market share of the big 3 has been shrinking for quite a while now and if not for SUVs, they would be in a critical situation long ago. Ford is loosing biliions, so does GM.

The good news are that the shakedown has been going on for quite a while now and like any other industry, US could lead the pack. I'm all for the US, but it'll take some time.

GM and Ford are fighting a lot of perception and hate problems, keep that in mind. There some good vehicles coming out of both companies that might not grab and bewilder people who normally buy imports, but are a far cry from the cars they were building 10, even 5 years ago. That's in the face of constantly fighting an uphill battle with budgets and selling cars at a loss while competing against import companies that are easily pulling profits. They're doing a damn good job with what they have availible, especially GM. It might not look it now, but wait a couple of years. Especially once we have the new Malibu, Impala, G8/Grand Prix, and Camaro on the streets.

I just hope some people will be able to get over themselves and their fanboyism, at least enough to go down to a domestic dealership and try out some new cars with a true sense of wanting to like those cars. It would probably be a nice boost to overall morale in this country to have more things to feel good about. Like a profitable, growing Automotive industry that you feel proud to support.

I agree, vehicles now are light years ahead of what they made 10 years ago, usually; But you still wouldn't mistake an Impala for a BMW, especially not from the drivers seat.

It seems like that in order to have a chance at this uphill battle, they have to acquire European expertise, probably by merging. Chrysler did that already, GM is about to, and Ford has the good cars but on the other side of the pond - they need to learn something from their excellent European product line.

I agree with what you're saying, but I see some issues. For one, I don't think GM needs to adopt European driving characteristics. At least not across their entire lineup. I'm all for making Pontiac and Saturn (especially Pontiac) more "Euro" in the sense of giving them much more panache, especially in driving dynamics (V6 FWD 4AT in an "exciting," "soulful" car?" Puh-lease. I know the engine doesn't make the car.) But Americans tend to just like their big, boaty, minimal feedback, kind of cars. People do still prefer their big trucks and SUV's, and it's not always just because they're popular to drive at the moment. If I go out to buy an Impala, it means I do want something just sort of blah and soft on the road. I'd look for the Grand Prix if I wanted something more gutsy.

Aside from that, I know what you mean by "But you still wouldn't mistake an Impala for a BMW, especially not from the drivers seat. " But to be fair, they're two whole different markets. Chevy Impala is the epitome of American car, like the Crown Victoria for Ford. Saab would be a closer competitor, I suppose. But hopefully Saturn (at least I think that's supposed to be their Euro-car fighter now) will have something nice in a few years.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Who are the customers of the big, floaty cars? Mostly old people who used to buy Oldsmobile. The customer of the American passenger car is getting older by the year.
How many of those who buy floaty cars buy them BECAUSE they are US-made and DESPITE being floaty?

Between Floaty and BMW you have a whole range of cars, namely the US-spec Toyotas (Camry, for example), and their sales are on the rise.

This thread needs graphs

 

[Aftermath]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Who are the customers of the big, floaty cars? Mostly old people who used to buy Oldsmobile. The customer of the American passenger car is getting older by the year.
How many of those who buy floaty cars buy them BECAUSE they are US-made and DESPITE being floaty?

Between Floaty and BMW you have a whole range of cars, namely the US-spec Toyotas (Camry, for example), and their sales are on the rise.

This thread needs graphs

Well honestly it's mostly conjecture on my part. SUV's and pickups are still huge sellers in this country, even in the face of gas prices.

Most of the people who drive them claim to like them for reasons like "It's big and spacious, it makes me feel safe." Or commentary along the lines like "It's quiet and comfortable, especially on long drives."

We're also a country of long distance drivers and commuters.

I don't mean to imply (or shouldn't have said) that people like it floaty and mushy with minimal feedback, just that they prefer "cruisy" to "sporty." Though American cars that tend to have "sporty" suspension just drive like they have no suspension.