Just upgraded to 7900GT from X800XL. Holy crap is CS:Source UGLY!

[Ika]

Originally posted by: Elfear

Originally posted by: Gstanfor


perhaps you missed the part where I said I owned (still do) a Leadtek 6800Gt - the fan on those is rated at <30db you fanatic fuckwit!

Whoa. You need to chill out man. It's just a forum and we're just talking about video cards here. He didn't insult your mom or your girlfriend so breathe easy and watch your language (it's actually against forum rules).

...do you visit Video often?

 

[lavaheadache]

Hey you guys totally hijacked the thread. How about you help this guy out, and then start your own thread about the incompetence of the 7900 gt cooler

 

[yacoub]

I plan to fiddle around with settings a little further tonight, but last night I did get it to the point where it wasn't as noticeable and definitely wasn't as distracting.

The nice thing is I can finally crank up the graphical settings in the game and AA and AF and still get pretty steady 50-some fps, which are things I couldn't do with the X800XL. So that definitely makes up for it not being quite as good IQ as ATI, at least for me.

Also, regarding noise, my friend got a 7800GT and it ran full-blast on the fan all the time and you couldn't adjust them and it was obnoxiously loud to me. This 7900GT's fan adjusts and when in Windows it's nearly silent, especially inside my Antec P160 which is a great case. Sure, it gets a bit louder during 3D gaming but that's to be expected - all cards need to be cooled more when the GPU is heating up.

Either way I'm pleased with the level of noise of the 7900GT KO N-584 model from eVGA. Definitely.

Only concern is IQ since out of the box the ATI cards I've owned (9600Pro, 9800Pro, X800XL) did not require any special configuration just to get them to look correct (ie, no swimming textures all over the place). You'd think IQ would at least default at something resembling acceptable settings, but apparently that is not the case with NVidia drivers, at least not for Source games (or maybe specifically CS:S?). Either way it looks a lot better now so thanks to those who made helpful suggestions. I'll continue to adjust things, but my biggest question now is what exactly the plethora of AA options mean:

http://users.adelphia.net/~jrockcls/aa.gif

Q, 9-tap, Gamma, S

If anyone can help by explaining wtf the extra letters after some of them mean, that would be helpful. I'm guessing SS = Super Sampling. What are the other ones?

Also do any of those require SLI'd cards to work properly or are all of those available to my 7900GT?

Thanks!

 

[The Green Bean]

vsync

 

[schneiderguy]

Originally posted by: yacoub
http://users.adelphia.net/~jrockcls/aa.gif

Q, 9-tap, Gamma, S

Q is Quinicux, basically it gets rid of the amount of jaggies as 4x Multisampling does but it blurs the whole frame a little bit. 2xQ takes about the same performance hit as 2x multisampling

HERE is a comparison of some of the different nvidia AA modes, it doesnt have all the ones that nvtray does but its got most of them. i have no idea what 9-tap is sorry

 

[Dr Asik]

You've just discovered how much better ATI image quality is. I too discovered this earlier this year, and haven't gone back. Unfortunately, there's not much you can do about it, it's just a universal constant.

What he is experiencing has nothing to do with the very slight image quality difference (I've never been able to see it on comparative screenshot - it's only theoretical in my opinion) between ATI and nVidia. This shimmering effet is a special problem, not an nVidia constant.

 

[Gstanfor]

4x9 tap is basically quincunx, but for 4x AA, not 2x AA. It can look quite decent, but some games (farcry for example) render incorrectly with it on.

I reccomend you get to know the 8xS mode, especially for older games. ATi can't come close to the AA quality 8xS and 16xS provide, especially when combined with SS transparency AA.

 

[Ackmed]

Your problem is shimmering. You've been told how to reduce it, clamp it, and set it to HQ. You'll lose a lot of performance, but have better IQ for it. You wont get the same IQ as ATi, but it will be better.

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

Perhaps you didn't read the second paragraph...

All I need to read is;

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
The cooler on my 7900GT is the quietest non passive graphics card cooler I've ever heard,

Have you never heard a 7900GTX? Or any of the older cards from years past that used a much smaller, quieter fan? Claiming the 7900GT is the quietest card with a fan you've ever heard is your opinion, and nothing wrong with having one. I really doubt you'll find anyone to agree with you on that one.

Originally posted by: Gstanforperhaps you missed the part where I said I owned (still do) a Leadtek 6800Gt - the fan on those is rated at <30db you fanatic fuckwit!

Let me guess, you've gone one of those super limited edition cards that are quieter than any other like it? Fact is, several reviews show how loud the 7900GT fan is, at 50db or more. Virtually all have the same cooler, and are going to be as loud.

Way to act childish with the name calling though?

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
ATi can't come close to the AA quality 8xS and 16xS provide, especially when combined with SS transparency AA.

Really???

 

[Gstanfor]

There is nothing limited edition about the card I own. It's readily available in Europe and Australia/Asia, is priced reasoably and sells like hotcakes. And yes, it does have a quiet heatsink/fan. You can disbelieve that all you like.

If you knew anything at all about what you are talking about, you would know that Gainward (Gainward/Xpertvision & Palit are all the exact same thing, just labels and ramsink colors differ) have always been famous for their innovative and quiet cooling solutions...

 

[Ackmed]

Just like you disbelieve that people say that their X1800/X1900's are quiet. And not the "Airbus turbine engine" that you claim that they are. You see, it works both ways.

I guess it just comes down to the very, very limited cards you've used to hold the opinion that the GT is the quietest of them all.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Originally posted by: Dr Asik

You've just discovered how much better ATI image quality is. I too discovered this earlier this year, and haven't gone back. Unfortunately, there's not much you can do about it, it's just a universal constant.

What he is experiencing has nothing to do with the very slight image quality difference (I've never been able to see it on comparative screenshot - it's only theoretical in my opinion) between ATI and nVidia. This shimmering effet is a special problem, not an nVidia constant.

Being an owner of ATI and Nvidia cards, I know what he is describing. Texture crawling and shimmering are much worse on Nvidia cards than on ATI cards, to the extent where games like Counter Strike: Source and The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion look positively horrendous on Geforce 6 and above Nvidia hardware.

You can't see the difference in a screenshot as the effect is perceptual and only happens when the player is in motion, but you can see it in video and there's plenty of samples of such video on the internet including those the OP uploaded himself.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Just like you disbelieve that people say that their X1800/X1900's are quiet. And not the "Airbus turbine engine" that you claim that they are. You see, it works both ways.

I guess it just comes down to the very, very limited cards you've used to hold the opinion that the GT is the quietest of them all.

he doesn't have the reference cooler. he SHOULD have made that far more clear in his original post. but instead he tried to hide the fact that his cooler was far different, and even tried to claim it uses the reference fan (which it probably doesn't). regardless, no need to keep trolling him.




the X1900 cooler is quiet at idle, but gets damn loud when turned up. it *is* effective, though.

 

[Vinnybcfc]

Lol this is a thread to try and help someone can people shut up about the coolers; they both suck and any aftermarket one is better

Anyway shimmering sucks, try the recommendations in this post to reduce it I have heard it can affect some new Ati cards as well but it is more of a problem with Nvidia ones atm

 

[Shadowmage]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
There is nothing limited edition about the card I own. It's readily available in Europe and Australia/Asia, is priced reasoably and sells like hotcakes. And yes, it does have a quiet heatsink/fan. You can disbelieve that all you like.

If you knew anything at all about what you are talking about, you would know that Gainward (Gainward/Xpertvision & Palit are all the exact same thing, just labels and ramsink colors differ) have always been famous for their innovative and quiet cooling solutions...

Again, you can extend that to the HIS X1900XT... it's quiet and cool, priced reasonably, and is quite plentiful. I don't see why you're complaining.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Just like you disbelieve that people say that their X1800/X1900's are quiet. And not the "Airbus turbine engine" that you claim that they are. You see, it works both ways.

I guess it just comes down to the very, very limited cards you've used to hold the opinion that the GT is the quietest of them all.

Well, I *did* say

The cooler on my 7900GT is the quietest non passive graphics card cooler I've ever heard

I like to talk from direct experience, not make generalizations (yes I have heard several X1900's, but not a HIS X1900). Now, please explain again why you feel that Rollo deserved a ban for trolling but you appaerently dont?!?........

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Just like you disbelieve that people say that their X1800/X1900's are quiet. And not the "Airbus turbine engine" that you claim that they are. You see, it works both ways.

I guess it just comes down to the very, very limited cards you've used to hold the opinion that the GT is the quietest of them all.

he doesn't have the reference cooler. he SHOULD have made that far more clear in his original post. but instead he tried to hide the fact that his cooler was far different, and even tried to claim it uses the reference fan (which it probably doesn't). regardless, no need to keep trolling him.



the X1900 cooler is quiet at idle, but gets damn loud when turned up. it *is* effective, though.

Excuse me??? Please demonstate where I hid *anything* about my card or my cooler in any of the above posts!

FYI, except for height, the cooler is the same dimensions as the reference cooler and usesa fan with same diameter as the reference design does...

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: Elfear

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
ATi can't come close to the AA quality 8xS and 16xS provide, especially when combined with SS transparency AA.

Really???

Yes, really. I'm talking single GPU here. The SS component of the combined modes (16xs comprises 4x MSAA, 2x SSAA), 8xS comprises 4x MSAA, 1x2 SSAA) provides an IQ edge no MSAA mode can hope to match.

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

Yes, really. I'm talking single GPU here. The SS component of the combined modes (16xs comprises 4x MSAA, 2x SSAA), 8xS comprises 4x MSAA, 1x2 SSAA) provides an IQ edge no MSAA mode can hope to match.

Did you look at the comparison pics in the middle of the page I linked you to? The 8XS and 6X are so close I can hardly tell the difference.

Here is what NvNews had to say about 16xS antialiasing:

"16xS AA: The first 16xS AA mode ever available in a direct3d enviroment. This mode combines 2x2 OGSS and 4x RGMS. This mode is very fillrate/bandwith/framebuffer intensive and can send even 7800GTX SLI cards to their knees. Another limitation is that it cannot go beyond 1280x1024 resolution due to framebuffer requirements. For this reason it was not included in todays benches. This mode hidden and requires a registry tweak to be enabled."

Doesn't sound all that useful to me.

 

[Gstanfor]

That's nonsense. You can enable it (and many more AA modes such as 12xS) using nhancer. In theory 16XS is supposed not to work above 1280x1024, in practice I use it @ 1600x1200 all the time (yes I can see the difference between 8xS & 16xS).

 

[BFG10K]

Yeah, 16xS is an interesting mode to say the least. Supposedly it doesn't work under OpenGL or at resolutions greater than 1280x1024 but I've managed to get it work in both cases.

It's very slow though and is only usable in very specific circumstances, like old games restricted to low resolutions.

As for OGSS in general, it's very slow and doesn't really increase the IQ that much in areas where it's needed the most, namely alpha textures like gratings and vegetation.

I wish both vendors would allow TrAA/AAA under OpenGL but in their absense I suppose OGSS in OpenGL is better than nothing.

 

[Gstanfor]

16Xs is very usable in SLI mode.

Tertsi should have a new version of 3mood out soon, which he says will clear up the aliasing caused by normal map textures (what makes the gridded floors in Doom3 alias as horribly as they do) and apparently it will also work for Quake4 and Prey. So that should help.

I seriously hope that pixelshader induced aliasing/normal map/bump map aliasing is addressed properly in DX10. It's been quite a disappointment in DX9.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Elfear

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
ATi can't come close to the AA quality 8xS and 16xS provide, especially when combined with SS transparency AA.

Really???

Yeah the ATI 14x mode looks better than the 16x SLI mode and the 8xS doesn't look that great. Did they add SS Tr anywhere like what GStanfor said??

 

[Gstanfor]

Have not tried the SLI 8x 16x modes out. Don't really see the point when the standard combimed modes work just as nicely in SLI.

 

[CP5670]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
Yeah, 16xS is an interesting mode to say the least. Supposedly it doesn't work under OpenGL or at resolutions greater than 1280x1024 but I've managed to get it work in both cases.

It's very slow though and is only usable in very specific circumstances, like old games restricted to low resolutions.

As for OGSS in general, it's very slow and doesn't really increase the IQ that much in areas where it's needed the most, namely alpha textures like gratings and vegetation.

I wish both vendors would allow TrAA/AAA under OpenGL but in their absense I suppose OGSS in OpenGL is better than nothing.

16x also works fine for me across the board. I'm actually not sure why nhancer says it's limited to 1280x1024. I am guessing those resolution limits are in general due to the 4096x4096 maximum texture size and the displayed image having to fit in the framebuffer, but 16x only has a 2x2 SS component and 2x2 works fine at anything up to 2048x1536.