Just read that 770 gays were discharged from service

[Kipper]

Originally posted by: DWW
I'm just curious why the gay people flock to the service. It seems there are more gays in the service than in civilian life. Do they go because they want to see buff dudes working out or something? (not a troll, serious question)

Um...where do you get the impression that there are more gays in the service than there are in the public? The reason you may be building this idea is the amount of press gays in the military get in comparison to gays in 'civilian' life. The reason is the former are still attacked for their sexual orientation whereas the latter are more readily accepted: popular culture is more receptive to 'deviants' or other stigmatized individuals than institutional culture is.

They go to the service because they want to do what every other person in the military wants to do: defend their country. Why kick them out for doing so?

 

[DWW]

I'm not suggesting it is right (to kick them out or what I'm going to propose) but if they want to serve so badly and the "rest" of the people don't want them mixed in with the heteros:

Why not comprise different fighting forces of strictly homosexual units? Like a gay submarine crew, perhaps even enough gays for their own gay aircraft carrier and gay marine battlegroups etc.

The gay people can proudly be "out" and express their extra emotions, the many straight people who don't want them watching their six will be relieved, and the gay people can still serve their country and be proud and not get discharged, etc.

 

[Kipper]

Originally posted by: DWW
I'm not suggesting it is right (to kick them out or what I'm going to propose) but if they want to serve so badly and the "rest" of the people don't want them mixed in with the heteros:

Why not comprise different fighting forces of strictly homosexual units? Like a gay submarine crew, perhaps even enough gays for their own gay aircraft carrier and gay marine battlegroups etc.

The gay people can proudly be "out" and express their extra emotions, the many straight people who don't want them watching their six will be relieved, and the gay people can still serve their country and be proud and not get discharged, etc.

That's exactly what they did with Blacks for a hundred years until just after the Korean war (or was it Vietnam?). It's bad enough they have the don't ask, don't tell policy - can you imagine the legal difficulties presented with a segregated military?

I'm not sure if it's the 'rest' of the people who don't want them mixed in as much as it is a.) cultural influences, b.) an overly moralistic and heavily religious military and c.) simple homophobia from overinflated machismo.

 

[DWW]

Originally posted by: MadCowDisease

Originally posted by: DWW
I'm not suggesting it is right (to kick them out or what I'm going to propose) but if they want to serve so badly and the "rest" of the people don't want them mixed in with the heteros:

Why not comprise different fighting forces of strictly homosexual units? Like a gay submarine crew, perhaps even enough gays for their own gay aircraft carrier and gay marine battlegroups etc.

The gay people can proudly be "out" and express their extra emotions, the many straight people who don't want them watching their six will be relieved, and the gay people can still serve their country and be proud and not get discharged, etc.

That's exactly what they did with Blacks for a hundred years until just after the Korean war (or was it Vietnam?). It's bad enough they have the don't ask, don't tell policy - can you imagine the legal difficulties presented with a segregated military?

I'm not sure if it's the 'rest' of the people who don't want them mixed in as much as it is a.) cultural influences, b.) an overly moralistic and heavily religious military and c.) simple homophobia from overinflated machismo.

They wouldn't be forced to join those fighting units--they would just exist for those who want to join. The ones who "don't tell" would probably do fine and get along in the regular units and the ones who must express homosexuality would probably enjoy the gay units more as they would be friendlier to that sort of sexual orientation and lifestyle. I don't see how this could "hurt" anything or anyone because all people involved would be happy.

 

[yhelothar]

I don't get these people comparing gays and child abusers. How many gays actually go out and rape hetereosexual men? The fact is that gay men usually have a mutual relationship with their partner, in which they both gain, like in a straight relationship.
In child abuse, the abuser is taking advantage and "abusing" the victim, which is clearly wrong.
Gawd some people have no logic.

 

[Czar]

are there special units just for women now?

 

[Kipper]

Originally posted by: DWW

Originally posted by: MadCowDisease

Originally posted by: DWW
I'm not suggesting it is right (to kick them out or what I'm going to propose) but if they want to serve so badly and the "rest" of the people don't want them mixed in with the heteros:

Why not comprise different fighting forces of strictly homosexual units? Like a gay submarine crew, perhaps even enough gays for their own gay aircraft carrier and gay marine battlegroups etc.

The gay people can proudly be "out" and express their extra emotions, the many straight people who don't want them watching their six will be relieved, and the gay people can still serve their country and be proud and not get discharged, etc.

That's exactly what they did with Blacks for a hundred years until just after the Korean war (or was it Vietnam?). It's bad enough they have the don't ask, don't tell policy - can you imagine the legal difficulties presented with a segregated military?

I'm not sure if it's the 'rest' of the people who don't want them mixed in as much as it is a.) cultural influences, b.) an overly moralistic and heavily religious military and c.) simple homophobia from overinflated machismo.

They wouldn't be forced to join those fighting units--they would just exist for those who want to join. The ones who "don't tell" would probably do fine and get along in the regular units and the ones who must express homosexuality would probably enjoy the gay units more as they would be friendlier to that sort of sexual orientation and lifestyle. I don't see how this could "hurt" anything or anyone because all people involved would be happy.

But don't you see that you are in fact 'forcing' people to join these units by coercing them into it? First off, if you decide to be an openly homosexual male, you have two choices in this scenario: dishonorable discharge or join a 'separate' unit. The notion of serving separately creates the notion that the separated units are in someway inadequate or 'different' than the heterosexual units, in this case. The same logic was used for creating separate Black units in the military - the commanders thought whites and blacks fighting side by side would cause some sort of morale issue.

The bottom line is the oft-quoted line "separate but equal is separate but unequal." Until military people can see past the sexual orientation and see that the uniform is all that matters, this will continue to be an 'issue' that really shouldn't be one to begin with. Honestly, if I served in the military (I don't) I wouldn't care if the guy (or girl) next to me is a transsexual, gay, straight, whatever. All that should really matter is that that person is there next to you covering your butt.

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078
Homosexuality is a mental disease.They will cure it one day with hormone therapy.
Until then gays are sissies by definition they have no discipline and are weak.
If a gay has discipline then he can prove it by not saying he is gay for his tour of duty and that way he will not be discharged.
If gays were allowed to be openly gay in the military they would be having big gay orgies in the barracks and sexually harrassing the heterosexual members of their units. This would be degrading to real fighting men. Yes I do believe also that some of the same reasons should prevent women from serving as well.

you realy are something😕

Yes but one thing I am not is a hater or a double standard hypocrite.
Homosexuality and Paedophelia are both symptoms of the same disease. Hormonal imbalances over the course of a lifetime are the cause for these deviant sexual desires. I hear many of you hypocrites talk about how we should all love and accept homosexuality but you wish all pedophiles were killed.
Different symptom of the same disease. Both will be cured eventually. I don't just hope that, I know it.

why do you belive that?

Interesting
That is a site I just found, I am sure you know how to google too.

Even assuming that study is somehow "conclusive", I don't see where the author mentions "sissiness" and "propensity for big gay orgies". You claim to be objective, yet your assumptions would indicate otherwise.

Not that we didn't already know that Mr. "Time to crack some homo skulls" (yes, I saw that little quip before you edited it). :roll:

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078
Homosexuality is a mental disease.They will cure it one day with hormone therapy.
Until then gays are sissies by definition they have no discipline and are weak.
If a gay has discipline then he can prove it by not saying he is gay for his tour of duty and that way he will not be discharged.
If gays were allowed to be openly gay in the military they would be having big gay orgies in the barracks and sexually harrassing the heterosexual members of their units. This would be degrading to real fighting men. Yes I do believe also that some of the same reasons should prevent women from serving as well.

you realy are something😕

Yes but one thing I am not is a hater or a double standard hypocrite.
Homosexuality and Paedophelia are both symptoms of the same disease. Hormonal imbalances over the course of a lifetime are the cause for these deviant sexual desires. I hear many of you hypocrites talk about how we should all love and accept homosexuality but you wish all pedophiles were killed.
Different symptom of the same disease. Both will be cured eventually. I don't just hope that, I know it.

why do you belive that?

Interesting
That is a site I just found, I am sure you know how to google too.

Even assuming that study is somehow "conclusive", I don't see where the author mentions "sissiness" and "propensity for big gay orgies". You claim to be objective, yet your assumptions would indicate otherwise.

Not that we didn't already know that Mr. "Time to crack some homo skulls" (yes, I saw that little quip before you edited it). :roll:

Seems that study would go to show that it's a genetic trait of some sort. It's not a learned behavior but, rather, innate.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
I don't get these people comparing gays and child abusers. How many gays actually go out and rape hetereosexual men? The fact is that gay men usually have a mutual relationship with their partner, in which they both gain, like in a straight relationship.
In child abuse, the abuser is taking advantage and "abusing" the victim, which is clearly wrong.
Gawd some people have no logic.

A great majority of pedophiles are male heterosexuals.

Bugs is just talking out of his arse again.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078
Homosexuality is a mental disease.They will cure it one day with hormone therapy.
Until then gays are sissies by definition they have no discipline and are weak.
If a gay has discipline then he can prove it by not saying he is gay for his tour of duty and that way he will not be discharged.
If gays were allowed to be openly gay in the military they would be having big gay orgies in the barracks and sexually harrassing the heterosexual members of their units. This would be degrading to real fighting men. Yes I do believe also that some of the same reasons should prevent women from serving as well. The difference is if women in the mlitary are hitting ont he men it is good for their morale.

"It's like I stepped into a Klan rally in a Boy George Costume" - Bill Hicks.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078
Homosexuality is a mental disease.They will cure it one day with hormone therapy.
Until then gays are sissies by definition they have no discipline and are weak.
If a gay has discipline then he can prove it by not saying he is gay for his tour of duty and that way he will not be discharged.
If gays were allowed to be openly gay in the military they would be having big gay orgies in the barracks and sexually harrassing the heterosexual members of their units. This would be degrading to real fighting men. Yes I do believe also that some of the same reasons should prevent women from serving as well. The difference is if women in the mlitary are hitting ont he men it is good for their morale.

^^^^^ LOL. I heard that someday they will have a cure for backwards-ass biggots like yourself as well. I hope one night in the near future you walk into the wrong bar and find yourself on the wrong end of a reach around. Meh.

 

[BugsBunny1078]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
I don't get these people comparing gays and child abusers. How many gays actually go out and rape hetereosexual men? The fact is that gay men usually have a mutual relationship with their partner, in which they both gain, like in a straight relationship.
In child abuse, the abuser is taking advantage and "abusing" the victim, which is clearly wrong.
Gawd some people have no logic.

A great majority of pedophiles are male heterosexuals.

Bugs is just talking out of his arse again.

As I said they are both mental diseases and related to the same condition with a slight variance in the state and the scope of it. I believe the research will eventually show all sexual deviances related.
Even if the cause is that one subject with one condition has too little of one hormone being produced and another subject has too much of it, monitoring and regulating are going to be the cure.
There are not just male hetero pedophiles either there are even female homosexual pedophiles and as bizarre as that is how can you not admit that to be a mental illness?

 

[Czar]

bugs,
why should we treat gays like some sortof sub humans untill we find a "cure"?

 

[eriqesque]

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078
Interesting
That is a site I just found, I am sure you know how to google too.

I find it hard to take serious a website article that has an xray of Homer Simpson's skull, as the leading pic.

 

[BugsBunny1078]

Im not suggesting that at all.
But I don't want people with mental illness serving in our military.

 

[nageov3t]

the thing that annoys me about the "gays would be detrimental to unit solidarity" is that it's the same argument that was made against blacks joining the military and serving in the same units as whites.

sure, it might cause some tension and fighting at first, but eventually, when there are bullets flying at you on a daily basis, you get over it.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078

As I said they are both mental diseases and related to the same condition with a slight variance in the state and the scope of it. I believe the research will eventually show all sexual deviances related.
Even if the cause is that one subject with one condition has too little of one hormone being produced and another subject has too much of it, monitoring and regulating are going to be the cure.
There are not just male hetero pedophiles either there are even female homosexual pedophiles and as bizarre as that is how can you not admit that to be a mental illness?

Okay, I think it's time to ask you to regale us with your mental-health credentials, Dr. Bunny.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078
Im not suggesting that at all.
But I don't want people with mental illness serving in our military.

so people who have suffered from depression are out as well?

 

[SuperTool]

Hundreds of those discharged held high-level job specialties that required years of training and expertise, including 90 nuclear power engineers, 150 rocket and missile specialists and 49 nuclear, chemical, and biological warfare specialists.

Eighty-eight linguists were discharged, including at least seven Arab language specialists.

Elaine Donnelly of the Center for Military Readiness, a conservative advocacy group that opposes gays serving in the military, said the loss of gays and lesbians serving in specialized areas is irrelevant because they never should have been in those jobs in the first place.

"We need to defend the law, and the law says that homosexuality is incompatible with military service," Donnelly said. "There is no shortage of people in the military, and we do not need people who identify themselves as homosexual."

:roll:
I thought conservatives were on talk shows complaining about shortage of Arab linguists. Now apparently there is no shortage 😉

 

[BugsBunny1078]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078
Im not suggesting that at all.
But I don't want people with mental illness serving in our military.

so people who have suffered from depression are out as well?

I wouldn't think so since that is pretty easily treatable with medication or even some St' John's Wort in some cases. Maybe the military could mandate that they have to take the medication at the prescribed times and dosages to ensure that the soldier maintains a certain mental state.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Czar

so people who have suffered from depression are out as well?

That actually can be a basis for administrative discharge, if a mental health provider says it is service-disqualifying. What I find interesting is that some mental conditions lead to administrative discharge, but others, with different DSM-IV axes, lead to medical separation (a completely different process, and one that affords different and in some ways more expansive procedural rights).

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078
Im not suggesting that at all.
But I don't want people with mental illness serving in our military.

The study you linked to shows it's a genetic/physical trait, not a mental illness. That matches with what some scienctists have proposed, too.

The only mental illness around here is you and your bigotry.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
I don't get these people comparing gays and child abusers. How many gays actually go out and rape hetereosexual men? The fact is that gay men usually have a mutual relationship with their partner, in which they both gain, like in a straight relationship.
In child abuse, the abuser is taking advantage and "abusing" the victim, which is clearly wrong.
Gawd some people have no logic.

A great majority of pedophiles are male heterosexuals.

Bugs is just talking out of his arse again.

As I said they are both mental diseases and related to the same condition with a slight variance in the state and the scope of it. I believe the research will eventually show all sexual deviances related.
Even if the cause is that one subject with one condition has too little of one hormone being produced and another subject has too much of it, monitoring and regulating are going to be the cure.
There are not just male hetero pedophiles either there are even female homosexual pedophiles and as bizarre as that is how can you not admit that to be a mental illness?

So you are advocating anabolic steroid treatment? OK, that has been tried, it made the homosexual males hornier towards their own sex. (this has been tried numerous times since the 20's and has produced the same result every time)

If you had read the story you linked you would have seen that this had to be done at birth to be effective, how are you going to know who needs it at birth? Now, anyone would ask themselves why on earth this could affect the babies brains as NO babies produce testosterone by themselves, my guess is that it has to do with the nandrolone (nor-testosterone) produced by the mother while she is pregnant but i really don't know.

So, when individuals get sexual it is already to late to do anything about it, yet you think it can be "cured"? (thankfully it doesn't work that way or we would all turn homosexual as we grow old)

Why would you want to cure homosexuality at all is my question to you.

We know that pedophiles and rapists can control themselves when chemically neutered but that is no surprise, less testosterone, less sex drive, there is absolutely nothing magical about that nor does it point to any form of chemical imbalance.

Yes, pedophelia is a mental illness that is obviously harmful, it has nothing to do with chemical imbalances any more or less than other criminal illnesses, i fail to see how homosexual behaviour is harmful for anyone.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078
Im not suggesting that at all.
But I don't want people with mental illness serving in our military.

so people who have suffered from depression are out as well?

I wouldn't think so since that is pretty easily curable with medication or even some St' John's Wort in some cases. Maybe the military could mandate that they have to take the medication at the prescribed times and dosages to ensure that the soldier maintains a certain mental state.

well, how much do you know about depression and how it works and is treated?