Judge overhauls troubled Ferguson, Missouri, court

[JackBurton]

Are you serious?

Yes, he's dead serious. How many poor Asians will be affected by this ruling? Let me answer that for you...,VERY few.

 

[fskimospy]

Ive read a lot of it. What do you not agree with that I said?

Pretty simple: 'don't break the law' is not the correct response to rampant municipal violation abuse by the courts.

The courts are the problem, so deferring to their judgments is making the problem worse, not better.

 

[Ackmed]

Pretty simple: 'don't break the law' is not the correct response to rampant municipal violation abuse by the courts.

The courts are the problem, so deferring to their judgments is making the problem worse, not better.

In my first post I said that something needed to be done on the criminal justice side of things. Personally I don't think that an arrest warrant should be issued for missing court dates for traffic offenses, I do for something criminal like theft. But for traffic no. But since that is the law there, it makes it very easy. If you get a ticket, pay it. If you get summoned to go to court, go. Do whatever you have to do to be a law abiding citizen. Keep insurance, wear a seat belt, have a valid drivers license. Do all these little things, and you don't have to worry about the bigger things. So yes is is that simple, don't break the law. If you do, pay to fine.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

In my first post I said that something needed to be done on the criminal justice side of things. Personally I don't think that an arrest warrant should be issued for missing court dates for traffic offenses, I do for something criminal like theft. But for traffic no. But since that is the law there, it makes it very easy. If you get a ticket, pay it. If you get summoned to go to court, go. Do whatever you have to do to be a law abiding citizen. Keep insurance, wear a seat belt, have a valid drivers license. Do all these little things, and you don't have to worry about the bigger things. So yes is is that simple, don't break the law. If you do, pay to fine.

"Don't break the law" is perfectly valid advice; the problem in Ferguson was that it was the police officers and courts who were breaking the law. When the system is found to have multiple routine violations of the United States Constitution, the system needs to be reformed, not the people who have been struggling under the yoke of its illegal activities. You have completely dismissed the systemic abuse happening at the hands of the local government in Ferguson while holding the people responsible for the abuse levied against them, and that's not reasonable.

Congratulations on turning your life around; I had a friend who went through some similar struggles in his youth and he's now a proud father and gainfully employed in a career-track profession. People are bound to make mistakes in their youth and they need to be held accountable and pay their debt to society. But you can't be overly harsh in your punishments or you'll never actually give them the opportunity to recover. Repeated systemic abuse does not offer an opportunity for people to change their ways; it offers them only victimization at the hands of a government that has gone off the rails.

 

[fskimospy]

In my first post I said that something needed to be done on the criminal justice side of things. Personally I don't think that an arrest warrant should be issued for missing court dates for traffic offenses, I do for something criminal like theft. But for traffic no. But since that is the law there, it makes it very easy. If you get a ticket, pay it. If you get summoned to go to court, go. Do whatever you have to do to be a law abiding citizen. Keep insurance, wear a seat belt, have a valid drivers license. Do all these little things, and you don't have to worry about the bigger things. So yes is is that simple, don't break the law. If you do, pay to fine.

If a municipality makes and enforces unconscionable laws like this and uses them to extort their populace the correct answer is to toss out the courts and reform them, which is what is being done here.

People all over the US get hit with municipal infractions all the time, often for little things. I would imagine most people on here have on multiple occasions. If you have the money to pay the fine that's great, but people there were basically being put into debt slavery at the point of a gun.

Saying 'don't do anything wrong' is not the simple answer, because there's almost no one who never does anything wrong. It appeals to an ideal that functionally does not exist.

 

[cabri]

If a municipality makes and enforces unconscionable laws like this and uses them to extort their populace the correct answer is to toss out the courts and reform them, which is what is being done here.

People all over the US get hit with municipal infractions all the time, often for little things. I would imagine most people on here have on multiple occasions. If you have the money to pay the fine that's great, but people there were basically being put into debt slavery at the point of a gun.

Saying 'don't do anything wrong' is not the simple answer, because there's almost no one who never does anything wrong. It appeals to an ideal that functionally does not exist.

The municipality answers to the public/voters.

Why was the same people allowed to run rampart over the system instead of being replaced?

 

[fskimospy]

The municipality answers to the public/voters.

Why was the same people allowed to run rampart over the system instead of being replaced?

In theory yes, but in practice no. Ferguson deliberately set their elections to be municipal-only elections in off years, making turnout almost zero. This allows the people in power to use patronage to mobilize small groups of voters to ensure they win the elections.

It's the same story there as it is in literally every place where people are being oppressed by their government. If they all rose up at once and acted they could definitely have taken over. The people in power tried to structure things so that didn't happen.

I would sincerely hope you're not going to try and blame the oppressed population of Ferguson for their own oppression.

 

[cabri]

If you do not care enough to vote; you get what others desire and you deserve

 

[fskimospy]

If you do not care enough to vote; you get what others desire and you deserve

/facepalm

I have no idea why you would want to excuse this kind of behavior. It's always interesting how conservatives freaked out about the 'tyranny' of the Affordable Care Act and then when confronted with actual government tyranny such as this respond with 'well just vote the guys out then'.

Gee, I wonder what the difference is. Conservatives are often surprisingly comfortable with government tyranny so long as the right people are the ones being subjected to it.

 

[cabri]

If it is not the government that they want, do something.

They chose to not do anything. - so why should the government change. It is what the voters feel is working.

 

[fskimospy]

If it is not the government that they want, do something.

They chose to not do anything. - so why should the government change. It is what the voters feel is working.

The government should change because it's violating the constitution, hence why the DOJ stepped in. If you don't support governments violating the constitution then I would expect you to be immediately supporting an overhaul of Ferguson's courts along with removal of lots of the offending ordinances and prior violations even if Ferguson's residents take zero action on the issue.

By the way, if you want to hold to this logic no more complaining about Obama and the ACA. If conservatives had wanted to change it more of them should have voted.

 

[cabri]

The government should change because it's violating the constitution, hence why the DOJ stepped in. If you don't support governments violating the constitution then I would expect you to be immediately supporting an overhaul of Ferguson's courts along with removal of lots of the offending ordinances and prior violations even if Ferguson's residents take zero action on the issue.

By the way, if you want to hold to this logic no more complaining about Obama and the ACA. If conservatives had wanted to change it more of them should have voted.

What exactly in the constitution was being violated? The courts/government was operating in the grey area and never legally challenged.

And given that at the time of ACA, the House and Senate were under Dem control. Look at the voting record

Look at the voting when the ACA came up.

 

[fskimospy]

What exactly in the constitution was being violated? The courts/government was operating in the grey area and never legally challenged.

Read the DOJ report. Ferguson is now negotiating the terms of their settlement with the DOJ. That's an admission of wrongdoing.

If you're going to come back with 'the DOJ is just bullying them into doing something they don't think is right', I would ask how that's any different than what Ferguson is doing to its citizens.

And given that at the time of ACA, the House and Senate were under Dem control. Look at the voting record

Look at the voting when the ACA came up.

That doesn't matter. There were enough people who identify as conservative in the US that didn't vote in the preceding election to have easily won enough races to prevent the ACA from happening or from Obama being elected.

Conservatives just didn't care enough, so they should stop whining about it. By your own very clear logic, if you have any problems with Obama or the ACA going forward you should only be criticizing conservatives for it. They chose to do nothing.

Let me guess, it's not fair to apply the exact same standard to conservatives.

 

[CitizenKain]

If you're leeching off the government and doing nothing for society I don't care that much for them. They obviously don't.

Says the person on disability.

 

[PokerGuy]

/facepalm

Conservatives are often surprisingly comfortable with government tyranny so long as the right people are the ones being subjected to it.

/facepalm indeed. Replace "conservatives" with "liberals", and the statement works just the same. In fact, even more so.

People in general are usually comfortable with government enforcing their worldview onto others. This applies to the people across the spectrum.

 

[ivwshane]

Too bad your hardships early in your life didn't fix your stupidity

Btw, here is the page discussing Missouri's "hardship license", see if you can spot the issues that not only contradict your possible options but also compound the issue even if the person does qualify for the hardship license.

http://dor.mo.gov/drivers/ldp.php

Considering your personal history and struggle, I find your attitude disgusting.

In my first post I said that something needed to be done on the criminal justice side of things. Personally I don't think that an arrest warrant should be issued for missing court dates for traffic offenses, I do for something criminal like theft. But for traffic no. But since that is the law there, it makes it very easy. If you get a ticket, pay it. If you get summoned to go to court, go. Do whatever you have to do to be a law abiding citizen. Keep insurance, wear a seat belt, have a valid drivers license. Do all these little things, and you don't have to worry about the bigger things. So yes is is that simple, don't break the law. If you do, pay to fine.

It's apparent that you don't understand the issue.

 

[ivwshane]

/facepalm indeed. Replace "conservatives" with "liberals", and the statement works just the same. In fact, even more so.

People in general are usually comfortable with government enforcing their worldview onto others. This applies to the people across the spectrum.

Except that only one party screams and complains about big government, a point of fact you seemed to have missed.

 

[Darwin333]

Yet there is no explanation as to why the extras costs.

If the lady ignored the tickets, the extra fines are justified. And it would seem that she continued to ignore payment until they ballooned or something forced her to address them.

Listening to your provided link, it is as I expect.
The violators ignored the issue up front and then compounded as a result.

The initial violation may have been valid or not; but ignoring the citation afterwards is downright stupid.

Umm, no. I figured you had a short attention span so I linked you to a specific spot on the video that you had already replied to. Had you listened to the entire thing you would have learned that they often charge you a $50/$100 fee just to enroll in a payment plan because you are to poor to pay. Then they charge you money just for the sheer pleasure of you handing them cash to make a payment. So $150 ticket can have 10 $25 payments on it and still not be paid off. Got sick one week and can't make the payment, oops there goes another $150 of which you will have to pay even more fees just to make a payment on it.

If you see anything at all right with that I honestly can't have a rational discussion with you. I'm not a bleeding heart liberal by any stretch of the imagination but just because I can and do just mail in the damn fine doesn't mean that those that can't should be put through that kind of absurdly anti-productive for SOCIETY as a whole bullshit. WTF is wrong with you people that think this shit is right?

 

[Ackmed]

"Don't break the law" is perfectly valid advice; the problem in Ferguson was that it was the police officers and courts who were breaking the law. When the system is found to have multiple routine violations of the United States Constitution, the system needs to be reformed, not the people who have been struggling under the yoke of its illegal activities. You have completely dismissed the systemic abuse happening at the hands of the local government in Ferguson while holding the people responsible for the abuse levied against them, and that's not reasonable.

Congratulations on turning your life around; I had a friend who went through some similar struggles in his youth and he's now a proud father and gainfully employed in a career-track profession. People are bound to make mistakes in their youth and they need to be held accountable and pay their debt to society. But you can't be overly harsh in your punishments or you'll never actually give them the opportunity to recover. Repeated systemic abuse does not offer an opportunity for people to change their ways; it offers them only victimization at the hands of a government that has gone off the rails.

I said something needed to be done, it is obviously far from perfect. I am glad that it was looked at and will hopefully get better. But lets not pretend that everyone that was pulled over had their rights violates. Did some? You bet, not all.

Says the person on disability.

So you're saying that veterans with disabilities from military duties are leeching off the government? That doesn't surprise me you think like that, and says a lot about you.

 

[ivwshane]

So you're saying that veterans with disabilities from military duties are leeching off the government? That doesn't surprise me you think like that, and says a lot about you.

So in your mind your leeching is justified and you think your military service some how benefited society?

You appear to have a speck in your eye
http://biblehub.com/luke/6-42.htm

 

[fskimospy]

I said something needed to be done, it is obviously far from perfect. I am glad that it was looked at and will hopefully get better. But lets not pretend that everyone that was pulled over had their rights violates. Did some? You bet, not all.

So you're saying that veterans with disabilities from military duties are leeching off the government? That doesn't surprise me you think like that, and says a lot about you.

He's saying that someone getting a disability check every month is in a poor place to criticize other people getting monthly government checks and he's right.

 

[Ackmed]

Not even close to right. I don't get government housing, or have an EBT card, etc. I work, and have worked since I was a teen. I don't get a check because I sit around and do nothing, not working. I get a check because of my service to this country and injuries I received while serving. So no, it is not the same. I also said in that statement that, doing nothing for society is part of the problem. Comparing the two is ignorant.

Your attitudes do say a lot about you though. I'm not really surprised however.

 

[fskimospy]

Not even close to right. I don't get government housing, or have an EBT card, etc. I work, and have worked since I was a teen. I don't get a check because I sit around and do nothing, not working. I get a check because of my service to this country and injuries I received while serving. So no, it is not the same. I also said in that statement that, doing nothing for society is part of the problem. Comparing the two is ignorant.

Your attitudes do say a lot about you though. I'm not really surprised however.

Do you not see yourself rationalizing how your monthly government benefits are good and theirs are bad?

The vast majority of people in government housing and with EBT cards also work.

 

[Ackmed]

Do you not see yourself rationalizing how your monthly government benefits are good and theirs are bad?

The vast majority of people in government housing and with EBT cards also work.

Really? Got numbers to back up that statement? Nope, you don't.

If you and the others actually read my comment, I said "If you're leeching off the government and doing nothing for society". The two go together in my statement, I said it for a reason. I know several people who do not work, and live completely off the government. My soon to be sister in law sells her food stamps, and it pisses me off. But I stay out of it because its family business. This happens all the time. People who do not work, do not pay taxes, yet receive taxes back, and depend on the government for everything is who I was talking about. It was pretty clear in the statement I made. Those type of people are doing nothing for society. And no I don't really give a fuck about them.

Linking them to me is silly. They get a check for doing nothing. I get a check because I did something. I get a check because of medical issues. Lots get a check because of pure laziness. I still work, pay taxes, vote, no longer get into legal trouble and do everything else that a normal person does to contribute to society. I fought with issues for several years, because I did not want to get disability. For reasons I don't want to get into here. When my issues started affecting people I love, things had to change. After years of issues something had to be done, you can't get medication unless you're classified as disabled. So I had to file in order to get medication I needed, and medical attention I needed. I am not going to argue about this anymore, or defend my service. Especially when someone already took a shot at it. There is a whole lot more I want to say, but it is not worth it, neither are any of you. You made your stance pretty clear, and I find it pretty pathetic. But everyone has the right to their own opinion. That being said, I am done commenting here.

 

[fskimospy]

Really? Got numbers to back up that statement? Nope, you don't.

Depending on what source you use between 50-60% of households who receive SNAP are either working or have worked recently. In addition, about 20% are elderly or disabled, so it seems a bit wrong to count them. Maybe 'vast majority' is too strong, but most SNAP households work.

If you and the others actually read my comment, I said "If you're leeching off the government and doing nothing for society". The two go together in my statement, I said it for a reason. I know several people who do not work, and live completely off the government. My soon to be sister in law sells her food stamps, and it pisses me off. But I stay out of it because its family business. This happens all the time. People who do not work, do not pay taxes, yet receive taxes back, and depend on the government for everything is who I was talking about. It was pretty clear in the statement I made. Those type of people are doing nothing for society. And no I don't really give a fuck about them.

Okay.

Linking them to me is silly. They get a check for doing nothing. I get a check because I did something.

To be clear, unless you were drafted (maybe you were!) you made a personal choice to join the military and that choice comes with risks and consequences. It also comes with benefits, such as enhanced disability protections. I'm very sorry that you have a service related disability and I don't begrudge you any part of the help the government is willing to give you for it. That doesn't make it special or privileged though.

I get a check because of medical issues. Lots get a check because of pure laziness. I still work, pay taxes, vote, no longer get into legal trouble and do everything else that a normal person does to contribute to society. I fought with issues for several years, because I did not want to get disability. For reasons I don't want to get into here. When my issues started affecting people I love, things had to change. After years of issues something had to be done, you can't get medication unless you're classified as disabled. So I had to file in order to get medication I needed, and medical attention I needed.

I'm genuinely very happy that you got the help you needed. I'm less happy that you seem so eager to deny other people the help they need.

I am not going to argue about this anymore, or defend my service. Especially when someone already took a shot at it. There is a whole lot more I want to say, but it is not worth it, neither are any of you. You made your stance pretty clear, and I find it pretty pathetic. But everyone has the right to their own opinion. That being said, I am done commenting here.

I have never taken a shot at your service, but you seem to be extremely eager to jump to that conclusion each time your opinions are criticized. My stance is that someone who is currently the recipient of disability checks from the government should be more aware than most that people need help sometimes.

You seem to be trying to peg the people who are criticizing you as military haters or something, probably because it makes it easy to dismiss what they are saying. Well, I served for seven years and many of my best friends to this day are people I met while serving. They are my friends because they are good people though, not because deciding to walk into a recruitment office is special.