Judge overhauls troubled Ferguson, Missouri, court

[JEDIYoda]

Sadly what I highlighted is what is happening in almost every city in America!! It`s all revenue driven! Even if it means financial ruin for some people who commit the smallest infraction!!

At least here in California they cannot make you pay the fine before you get your court date!!

In other words you can fight the fine without paying first!!

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/judge-overhauls-troubled-ferguson-court/ar-BBm3jjS?ocid=spartandhp

Aug 24 (Reuters) - A new municipal judge in Ferguson, Missouri, on Monday ordered sweeping changes to court practices in response to a scathing Justice Department report following the shooting of unarmed black teenager Michael Brown a year ago.

Municipal Court Judge Donald McCullin, appointed in June, ordered that all arrest warrants issued in the city before Dec. 31, 2014 be withdrawn.

Defendants will receive new court dates along with options for disposing of their cases, such as payment plans or community service. Fines may be commuted for indigent people.

The changes come five months after the U.S. Department of Justice strongly criticized city leaders in its report, saying the police force and court worked together to exploit people in order to raise revenue.

The Justice Department specifically said Ferguson's municipal court practices caused significant harm to many people with cases pending as minor municipal code violations turned into multiple arrests, jail time, and payments that exceeded the cost of the original ticket many times over.

McCullin, who is black, ordered instead that if an arrest warrant is issued for a minor traffic violation, the defendant will not be incarcerated, but will be released on their own recognizance and given another court date, the city said.

"These changes should continue the process of restoring confidence in the Court... and giving many residents a fresh start," said McCullin in a statement.

He added that many people who have had drivers licenses suspended will be able to obtain them and start driving again. In the past, the city's director of revenue would suspend a defendant's driver's license solely for failing to appear in court or failing to pay a fine.

McCullin replaced Judge Ronald Brockmeyer who resigned after being criticized in the Justice Department report.

The Justice Department launched its investigation into Ferguson's police department and municipal court after the Aug. 9, 2014 shooting death of 18-year-old Brown by white police officer Darren Wilson.

Wilson was not charged in the shooting, and the incident triggered nationwide protests and widespread complaints of mistreatment of blacks by police.

 

[PokerGuy]

McCullin, who is black, ordered instead that if an arrest warrant is issued for a minor traffic violation, the defendant will not be incarcerated, but will be released on their own recognizance and given another court date, the city said.

Oh, so they got didn't pay a fine and failed to show up for court. An arrest warrant was issued. Now the arrest warrant is withdrawn, and a new court date is set. How is this different than the original court date, and what makes him think the person that didn't show up for the court date the first time will show up for the next one?

What happens when they don't show up for this next court date?

He added that many people who have had drivers licenses suspended will be able to obtain them and start driving again. In the past, the city's director of revenue would suspend a defendant's driver's license solely for failing to appear in court or failing to pay a fine.

So you get a ticket, you don't pay it and fail to appear in court. Your license gets suspended. Now they're giving everyone the license back. What incentive is there for anyone to actually pay their fine or show up for court?? You won't be arrested and your license won't be suspended. Sounds like a recipe for nobody paying anything.

I do think there is/was a lot of screwed up stuff happening, and the city did abuse those who could least afford to be milked for money, so an overhaul makes sense.

 

[cabri]

I think they are allowing the people to prove that it was the system and not their fault.

If the amnesty is not accepted the first time, they will no longer allow a second chance.

I hope that this is what is the intentions; if it ends up being turning a blind eye to violations and ignoring the court date/law; then it ends up being a mirror of what the community was complaining about.

 

[Ackmed]

Here is an idea, don't commit violations and you won't get pulled over. While something needed to be done, there is next to zero repercussions for not following the law, and then not going to court if you get a ticket. Meanwhile... they're still rioting. But they're victims.

 

[K1052]

So you get a ticket, you don't pay it and fail to appear in court. Your license gets suspended. Now they're giving everyone the license back. What incentive is there for anyone to actually pay their fine or show up for court?? You won't be arrested and your license won't be suspended. Sounds like a recipe for nobody paying anything.

License suspensions and fines disproportionately impact the poor. Somebody who runs a pedestrian over may get no suspension if they can defend themselves while a poor person who gets even a non-moving violation can have their license suspend for a year or two simply because they are unable to pay the fines.

NPR has a 2 part story which helps illustrate the problem:

http://www.npr.org/2014/12/29/372691960/cant-pay-your-fines-your-license-could-be-taken

http://www.npr.org/2015/01/05/372691918/how-drivers-license-suspensions-unfairly-target-the-poor

 

[PokerGuy]

License suspensions and fines disproportionately impact the poor. Somebody who runs a pedestrian over may get no suspension if they can defend themselves while a poor person who gets even a non-moving violation can have their license suspend for a year or two simply because they are unable to pay the fines.

NPR has a 2 part story which helps illustrate the problem:

http://www.npr.org/2014/12/29/372691960/cant-pay-your-fines-your-license-could-be-taken

http://www.npr.org/2015/01/05/372691918/how-drivers-license-suspensions-unfairly-target-the-poor

I understand the problem perfectly well, and as I said earlier I see the need for some type of reform. That doesn't change or impact the points I made in my earlier post. The license suspension etc are meant as teeth to make people pay the fines. If you take that away, what's going to convince them to pay the fine? Similarly, the arrest warrant is to make sure people show up for court. Take that threat away won't magically make those who don't show up for the court dates anyway start showing up.

 

[Brainonska511]

The license suspension etc are meant as teeth to make people pay the fines.

How are they going to pay the fine when they get fired because they can't get to work?

 

[K1052]

I understand the problem perfectly well, and as I said earlier I see the need for some type of reform. That doesn't change or impact the points I made in my earlier post. The license suspension etc are meant as teeth to make people pay the fines. If you take that away, what's going to convince them to pay the fine? Similarly, the arrest warrant is to make sure people show up for court. Take that threat away won't magically make those who don't show up for the court dates anyway start showing up.

If punishing poor people in this way only makes them poorer and commit more crimes then how effective is it really? "Having teeth" sounds all well and good from a fairness perspective but realistically if the people entering the system have no resources to escape it they generally end up staying there.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

So in other words the poor should be allowed to do whatever they please while those that aren't considered poor should be punished for doing the same thing.

 

[cabri]

How are they going to pay the fine when they get fired because they can't get to work?

Why would they not be able to get to work?

Consequences of their action after the second fact of not paying the fine

 

[cabri]

If punishing poor people in this way only makes them poorer and commit more crimes then how effective is it really? "Having teeth" sounds all well and good from a fairness perspective but realistically if the people entering the system have no resources to escape it they generally end up staying there.

Are they being forced to commit the crime in the first place?

Once they start, they may be unable to get out of the cycle; but that was their choice to start down that path.

 

[Brainonska511]

Why would they not be able to get to work?

Consequences of their action after the second fact of not paying the fine

Because they can't drive with a suspended license. Public transit and/or ride sharing may not be viable options. And with no means to pay for the fine, the fines get bigger and more punishments are added.

Just read/listen to some of the stuff about probation and its effects on people with little means:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UjpmT5noto
http://nyti.ms/1OJwBl8

Once they start, they may be unable to get out of the cycle; but that was their choice to start down that path.

What good is it to punish people so much that they get stuck in a Sisyphean system that leads to continual punishment? What good is that to society?

 

[K1052]

So in other words the poor should be allowed to do whatever they please while those that aren't considered poor should be punished for doing the same thing.

No, that's not it in other words. Those are your made up words.

 

[K1052]

Are they being forced to commit the crime in the first place?

Once they start, they may be unable to get out of the cycle; but that was their choice to start down that path.

Were they forced to be born poor in the first place?

 

[CitizenKain]

What good is it to punish people so much that they get stuck in a Sisyphean system that leads to continual punishment? What good is that to society?

You can't use big words like that around rightwingers on here, there is no way they can figure it out.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

So in other words the poor should be allowed to do whatever they please while those that aren't considered poor should be punished for doing the same thing.

Well, no. In other words, minor traffic offenses should never, ever, ever, ever lead to multiple arrests, compounding fines, loss of license and loss of job. You want the punishment to fit the crime, and ruining someone's life because they were going 5 mph above the speed limit is an extremely poor way to govern. I know someone who got hit with multiple traffic citations and it kept his license perpetually suspended for years because he kept getting caught driving with a suspended license because that was literally the only way he could get to work (never mind the number of jobs that require a valid driver's license even for non-driving positions). It's a ridiculous cycle of bullshit that continually punishes people for the most minor of offenses and it doesn't inspire confidence that the system is trying to help them. It's a modern day debtor's prison, and even Victorian England was able to realize how stupid that policy was.

You want a solution? Allow people to keep their license active and garnish a small percentage of their wages for a certain length of time (this can vary depending on the nature of the violation). It's still punitive, but it allows them to remain a productive member of society during their punishment. You could even implement an increasing scale for further offenses, so that the people who really can't seem to learn their lesson get punished more harshly until the message becomes clear. But you don't fuck over the entirety of the poor population in the process.

 

[AlanF]

Pretty sad state of affairs to exploit the very citizens they claim to represent. Rather than exploit them, try educating them about the importance of living responsible and respectful lives.

 

[mizzou]

I think it's complete BS to issue warrants for people's arrest over minor traffic violations.

I would be OK if it's like no insurance, suspended drivers license, aggressive driving, your 5th violation for the same thing...but seatbelt tickets? Come on....that is a money grab.

Many places don't bother with warrants for piddily stuff like that. The only reason those small towns do it is because they want the fine money.

The only caveat to this is that people who pay taxes in those small towns better be expected to pay more $$ to support their local government if revenue is no longer generated from fines.

 

[mizzou]

Because they can't drive with a suspended license. Public transit and/or ride sharing may not be viable options. And with no means to pay for the fine, the fines get bigger and more punishments are added.

Just read/listen to some of the stuff about probation and its effects on people with little means:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UjpmT5noto
http://nyti.ms/1OJwBl8


What good is it to punish people so much that they get stuck in a Sisyphean system that leads to continual punishment? What good is that to society?

I've always always believed that courts should allow reasonable levels of civil service to pay off debt. Like at $15-20 per hour. Give jobs during all hours of days and any day of the week.

If you don't have money and won't even pay it off doing public service, then yeah, you are a turd driving around who doesn't care what the law is or care about how that impacts other drivers when you wreck into them

 

[DrPizza]

Perhaps it helps to put it into perspective:
For most of us, if we got a ticket for rolling through a stop sign, it would inconvenience us, but we could afford to pay the fine, and realize, while rolling our eyes, yeah, it's against the law to only slow to 1mph, instead of coming to an absolute stop, even when there isn't another vehicle in motion within 1/2 a mile.

Now, imagine the fine wasn't a few hundred dollars, but rather, 1/2 a month's pay. And, they won't allow you to make arrangements to pay it - pay it then, or go to jail; and you knew you didn't have enough money to pay the fine. Go to court, and go to jail? Or not show up and take your chances that you might be able to scrape up enough money before you're caught again. And, if you are caught again, having not shown up for court the first time, the fine is now 2 month's pay.

 

[fskimospy]

Perhaps it helps to put it into perspective:
For most of us, if we got a ticket for rolling through a stop sign, it would inconvenience us, but we could afford to pay the fine, and realize, while rolling our eyes, yeah, it's against the law to only slow to 1mph, instead of coming to an absolute stop, even when there isn't another vehicle in motion within 1/2 a mile.

Now, imagine the fine wasn't a few hundred dollars, but rather, 1/2 a month's pay. And, they won't allow you to make arrangements to pay it - pay it then, or go to jail; and you knew you didn't have enough money to pay the fine. Go to court, and go to jail? Or not show up and take your chances that you might be able to scrape up enough money before you're caught again. And, if you are caught again, having not shown up for court the first time, the fine is now 2 month's pay.

John Oliver's segment on municipal violations of this kind is depressing and enraging.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UjpmT5noto

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Perhaps it helps to put it into perspective:
For most of us, if we got a ticket for rolling through a stop sign, it would inconvenience us, but we could afford to pay the fine, and realize, while rolling our eyes, yeah, it's against the law to only slow to 1mph, instead of coming to an absolute stop, even when there isn't another vehicle in motion within 1/2 a mile.

Now, imagine the fine wasn't a few hundred dollars, but rather, 1/2 a month's pay. And, they won't allow you to make arrangements to pay it - pay it then, or go to jail; and you knew you didn't have enough money to pay the fine. Go to court, and go to jail? Or not show up and take your chances that you might be able to scrape up enough money before you're caught again. And, if you are caught again, having not shown up for court the first time, the fine is now 2 month's pay.

What should change is having structured payment based on the ability to pay the fine or a predetermined amount of community service. I it takes the person 3 years to pay off the fine or a year to perform the community service at least they were held accountable for violating the law.

 

[cabri]

Were they forced to be born poor in the first place?

What does being poor have to do with committing a crime?

Many people are poor with no criminal history.

 

[cabri]

Because they can't drive with a suspended license. Public transit and/or ride sharing may not be viable options. And with no means to pay for the fine, the fines get bigger and more punishments are added.

Just read/listen to some of the stuff about probation and its effects on people with little means:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UjpmT5noto
http://nyti.ms/1OJwBl8


What good is it to punish people so much that they get stuck in a Sisyphean system that leads to continual punishment? What good is that to society?

Maybe they should have thought about the consequences of doing the crime and/or violation.

Unless the DL is being suspended on the spot; they have no excuse.
And if suspended on the spot (which an officer can not do), then they were doing something more than a minor offenses or have compounded the issue.

What happens is the person brushes off the violation and then the license is suspended as a result of THAT action.

They have had no problem committing initial violation and ignoring the issue; that is two strikes.

Are they really going to worry about a suspended license after that?
If so, then get alternate transportation to get to work; family or friend. Accept the embarrassment that it causes.

 

[cabri]

I think it's complete BS to issue warrants for people's arrest over minor traffic violations.

I would be OK if it's like no insurance, suspended drivers license, aggressive driving, your 5th violation for the same thing...but seatbelt tickets? Come on....that is a money grab.

Many places don't bother with warrants for piddily stuff like that. The only reason those small towns do it is because they want the fine money.

The only caveat to this is that people who pay taxes in those small towns better be expected to pay more $$ to support their local government if revenue is no longer generated from fines.

Are the warrants being issued for the violation or the fact that the person CHOSE to not show up to court as a result of the violations.