Judge gives Illegal pass on license.

[Moonbeam]

Why don't we just call all these illegal immigrants what they really are, Native Americans, the people who have been here for 25000 years.

You dirty filthy white people are getting a taste of your own medicine and America will turn brown again. Learn Mayan or get your worthless hating asses back to Europe or wherever the hell else you crawled in from like an invasion of slime.

 

[halik]

he has a point that the system is messed up, but for a judge to say its unconstitutional is just wrong. There are many many precedents that say otherwise, one of the recent being the lady that wanted to wear a burka in the license pic

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Farang
The use of the word "illegals" is dehumanizing and has no place in debates on immigration. Nobody agrees with me, though, not even the far-left hippy assholes who want to let all those immigrants in the country.

oh STFU, idiotic faux-PC arguments only detract from the core of the problem. Eithemisms won't solve a thing

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Why don't we just call all these illegal immigrants what they really are, Native Americans, the people who have been here for 25000 years.

You dirty filthy white people are getting a taste of your own medicine and America will turn brown again. Learn Mayan or get your worthless hating asses back to Europe or wherever the hell else you crawled in from like an invasion of slime.

Uh, Moonie? Lots of Mexicans are predominantly of European descent.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: Rainsford
You all should read more carefully. This isn't about the illegals, it's about the OTHER drivers on the road. The Judge is essentially making the (correct) argument that it's in everyone's best interest if everyone driving around is tested and licensed. Now I realize this doesn't help the illegal immigration absolutists, but the fact is that there are illegal aliens driving around. If you don't like that, deport them, whatever. But until that time, ALSO denying them licenses is stupid and makes it less safe on the roads.

There is a significant difference between "best interest" as the judge sees it and Constitutional law. It is the duty of the judge to follow that law, but clearly decided that his sensitivities outweigh the obligations of his office. To be blunt, the judge has gotten too big for his britches.

It is entirely possible that the judge overstepped his authority, and it is also entirely possible that the logic behind giving illegal immigrants a license is flawed. I'm not saying the judge was RIGHT, I'm just pointing out his logic...and pointing out that the idea that this somehow validates illegal immigration is silly.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Why don't we just call all these illegal immigrants what they really are, Native Americans, the people who have been here for 25000 years.

You dirty filthy white people are getting a taste of your own medicine and America will turn brown again. Learn Mayan or get your worthless hating asses back to Europe or wherever the hell else you crawled in from like an invasion of slime.

Uh, Moonie? Lots of Mexicans are predominantly of European descent.

Just more poetic justice, in my opinion. If they get under your skin, move to Mexico.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Why don't we just call all these illegal immigrants what they really are, Native Americans, the people who have been here for 25000 years.

You dirty filthy white people are getting a taste of your own medicine and America will turn brown again. Learn Mayan or get your worthless hating asses back to Europe or wherever the hell else you crawled in from like an invasion of slime.

Uh, Moonie? Lots of Mexicans are predominantly of European descent.

Just more poetic justice, in my opinion. If they get under your skin, move to Mexico.

I would if they didn't have such a shitty, corrupt goverment. I have a hard enough time dealing with the shitty, corrupt goverment from my own country.

 

[MovingTarget]

All the talk about the PR term aside, I feel the judge overstepped his authority here. He is injecting himself too far into what should be a solution from the legislature(s). As a matter of policy, giving licenses to illegal immigrants is something that should be of public debate, and handled by the legislature. What I don't understand is why he said that not giving them licenses is unconstitutional. They are not citizens, and drivers licenses are not a right. I'd like to see this judge's reasoning as to why this is a CONSTITUTIONAL issue. People seem to throw the term unconstitutional around too much for laws/policies they simply do not like or agree with.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
All the talk about the PR term aside, I feel the judge overstepped his authority here. He is injecting himself too far into what should be a solution from the legislature(s). As a matter of policy, giving licenses to illegal immigrants is something that should be of public debate, and handled by the legislature. What I don't understand is why he said that not giving them licenses is unconstitutional. They are not citizens, and drivers licenses are not a right. I'd like to see this judge's reasoning as to why this is a CONSTITUTIONAL issue. People seem to throw the term unconstitutional around too much for laws/policies they simply do not like or agree with.

You do not have to be a citizen for the constitution to apply, that's pretty well settled law. I'm not sure it applies to illegal aliens, but it certainly applies to non-citizens. I think it would take a Supreme Court case to decide whether or not the constitution applies to people who are illegally on US soil.

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
All the talk about the PR term aside, I feel the judge overstepped his authority here. He is injecting himself too far into what should be a solution from the legislature(s). As a matter of policy, giving licenses to illegal immigrants is something that should be of public debate, and handled by the legislature. What I don't understand is why he said that not giving them licenses is unconstitutional. They are not citizens, and drivers licenses are not a right. I'd like to see this judge's reasoning as to why this is a CONSTITUTIONAL issue. People seem to throw the term unconstitutional around too much for laws/policies they simply do not like or agree with.

You do not have to be a citizen for the constitution to apply, that's pretty well settled law. I'm not sure it applies to illegal aliens, but it certainly applies to non-citizens. I think it would take a Supreme Court case to decide whether or not the constitution applies to people who are illegally on US soil.

Good point there about it applying to non-citizens as well. Although non-citizens still have the same rights as citizens under the constitution (barring voting and running for high public office), I still don't see how only allowing citizens, or at least those here legally, to get a license to operate a motor vehicle is unconstitutional. Unless they are specifically denied that due to their sex, race, religion, etc then I do not think that this restriction violates the constitution.

Even those here legally can be denied a license for a number of reasons. There are many requirements to obtaining a license, including physical ability, proved proficiency (via testing), age, etc. One of those requirements just happens to be that you are in the US legally. If that is unconstitutional, I would seriously like to know how. I'm not trying to argue that they should or shouldn't get them. I just am curious as to how this is a constitutional issue as this judge claims.

 

[agentbad]

Originally posted by: SirStev0
Blah blah... kind of stupid. Kind of activisty. with that being said.... I do think it would be better if they were licensed. with all the scumbags driving around like nuts it would make me feel a little better if more people had proof that they were capable drivers.

Agreed.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Farang
The use of the word "illegals" is dehumanizing and has no place in debates on immigration. Nobody agrees with me, though, not even the far-left hippy assholes who want to let all those immigrants in the country.

your are way too funny!!

So what do you call these people who are in our country without permission?

Illegal immigrants. If you'd like to shorten it, immigrants is acceptable.

Think of it as shortening "African Americans" to "Africans." Or "Mentally disabled" to "Mentals." The term "illegals" shortens their title by eliminating the human noun, rather than the descriptive adjective. This is dehumanizing and has no place in the debate.

Why the PC semantic games? Have any other legs to stand on?

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
All the talk about the PR term aside, I feel the judge overstepped his authority here. He is injecting himself too far into what should be a solution from the legislature(s). As a matter of policy, giving licenses to illegal immigrants is something that should be of public debate, and handled by the legislature. What I don't understand is why he said that not giving them licenses is unconstitutional. They are not citizens, and drivers licenses are not a right. I'd like to see this judge's reasoning as to why this is a CONSTITUTIONAL issue. People seem to throw the term unconstitutional around too much for laws/policies they simply do not like or agree with.

You do not have to be a citizen for the constitution to apply, that's pretty well settled law. I'm not sure it applies to illegal aliens, but it certainly applies to non-citizens. I think it would take a Supreme Court case to decide whether or not the constitution applies to people who are illegally on US soil.

Good point there about it applying to non-citizens as well. Although non-citizens still have the same rights as citizens under the constitution (barring voting and running for high public office), I still don't see how only allowing citizens, or at least those here legally, to get a license to operate a motor vehicle is unconstitutional. Unless they are specifically denied that due to their sex, race, religion, etc then I do not think that this restriction violates the constitution.

Even those here legally can be denied a license for a number of reasons. There are many requirements to obtaining a license, including physical ability, proved proficiency (via testing), age, etc. One of those requirements just happens to be that you are in the US legally. If that is unconstitutional, I would seriously like to know how. I'm not trying to argue that they should or shouldn't get them. I just am curious as to how this is a constitutional issue as this judge claims.

The problem is illegal's would not even qualify to apply for a license. Although the requirements are slightly different from state to state, you typically need something like....birth cert from US or US territory, Foreign passport WITH US Visa (I doubt many illegals even have a passport), resident alien card.

These are requirements from what is normally listed as "Primary", and they also need one secondary to go with it. Good luck with that. They dont even qualify unless the state issuing the license waives these requirements.

EDIT: For those who are for giving illegals a drivers license, Id like to know how many think traditional requirements should be waived for them? Thats a yes or no question. If you say yes, why not strip the requirements for everyone? Do you believe it's fair to waive requirements for those who are in this country illegally yet keep the requirements for everyone else? Why give illegals more rights than citizens or those who are here legally?

Also, I would like someone to post ANY state's requirements and tell us which states requirements an illegal would qualify for? The answer: NONE.

And insurance? hahahahaha do you (those who are FOR giving them licenses) actually think they make enough money to PAY for insurance? hahahahaha

 

[Sinsear]

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Farang
The use of the word "illegals" is dehumanizing and has no place in debates on immigration. Nobody agrees with me, though, not even the far-left hippy assholes who want to let all those immigrants in the country.

your are way too funny!!

So what do you call these people who are in our country without permission?

Illegal immigrants. If you'd like to shorten it, immigrants is acceptable.

Think of it as shortening "African Americans" to "Africans." Or "Mentally disabled" to "Mentals." The term "illegals" shortens their title by eliminating the human noun, rather than the descriptive adjective. This is dehumanizing and has no place in the debate.

They're illegals. They don't get any political correctness, or sympathy from me.

 

[blackangst1]

Another point I havent seen discussed is the insurer's responsibility. Those of you who mistakenly think illegals with DL will actually GET or afford to get insurance forgot insurers do NOT have to insure them. AFAIK I havent seen any industry statements from insurers saying they will welcome them with open arms. My guess is they will be required to have SR22 or some variant of it to be insured.

The number one reason uninsured motorists do not get insurance is cost. How the hell is someone working under the table gonna afford it?

 

[StageLeft]

That is sweet. I need to get illegal right away. Because I'm legal, I have to have a license to drive, but if I was here illegally, I wouldn't? THAT IS AWESOME! Time to rip up that greencard.

 

[ranmaniac]

If an American citizen tried to drive around Mexico without a license or documentation, they'd be thrown in jail, have their car taken away, and extorted for their life savings.

 

[rpanic]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Another point I havent seen discussed is the insurer's responsibility. Those of you who mistakenly think illegals with DL will actually GET or afford to get insurance forgot insurers do NOT have to insure them. AFAIK I havent seen any industry statements from insurers saying they will welcome them with open arms. My guess is they will be required to have SR22 or some variant of it to be insured.

The number one reason uninsured motorists do not get insurance is cost. How the hell is someone working under the table gonna afford it?

That?s what I always thought no way could they afford it even if it was an option, it is just another step in the direction of trying to legitimize their presence. I think you are right about the sr22 it would make the insurance way to expensive, even regular insurance is a lot of money. Maybe pro-illegal politicians will try to push government subsidized insurance for them next.

I and several people that I know have been in accidents with green carders and illegals and not one ever had insurance. The ones that did it turned out to be just a fake insurance card that they would flash to the police because insurance is mandatory here in California.

 

[Farang]

My complaint has nothing to do with political correctness. It has everything to do with proper argument. A simple example, for evidently simple people, is if we had a discussion on the Clinton Administration and referred to the Clinton Administration as the "Shitsticks." Now, if you had a valid argument against a policy of this administration, framing that argument using the term "Shitsticks" wouldn't really get you very far with your opponent. No matter how valid your argument, your use of that term would make it fall on deaf ears.

If you don't want to lump illegal immigrants in with legal immigrants, then say "illegal immigrants." If you want to make these people seem subhuman, say "illegals." Don't you realize the opponents argument relies on you being a selfish son-of-a-bitch who cares nothing for his fellow man? Rid him of that weapon by improving your terms.

 

[jackschmittusa]

In Ohio, you have to be a legal resident of the state to qualify for a DL. They even have various criteria that is deemed to constitute "legal resident status" that they may ask you to produce.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Farang
My complaint has nothing to do with political correctness. It has everything to do with proper argument. A simple example, for evidently simple people, is if we had a discussion on the Clinton Administration and referred to the Clinton Administration as the "Shitsticks." Now, if you had a valid argument against a policy of this administration, framing that argument using the term "Shitsticks" wouldn't really get you very far with your opponent. No matter how valid your argument, your use of that term would make it fall on deaf ears.

If you don't want to lump illegal immigrants in with legal immigrants, then say "illegal immigrants." If you want to make these people seem subhuman, say "illegals." Don't you realize the opponents argument relies on you being a selfish son-of-a-bitch who cares nothing for his fellow man? Rid him of that weapon by improving your terms.

Personally I find your argument way to honest and intelligent to make any headway here. You are going against everything people have been taught, simple stuff like take any advantage you can, fight dirty, but win, maim, pillage, and burn, sucker punch people, etc. All the things that make life worth living. Only outstanding minds free from some of the worst debilitating effects of self hate can hold to an ideal like the one you espouse here. Frankly, people are just going to see you as stupid. What, you think they are going to see they are spineless back-stabbing cowards? I don't think so.

 

[1EZduzit]

It's gets too hard to type out "illegal immigrant" when you use the term multiple times in a post. I try (usually) use "illegal immigrants" in my first reference and then switch to "illegals" after that and I don't see that as dehumanizing anybody when I do it.

I see in some places people have combined the term to "illegalrants". To me that is more dehumanizing then saying "illegals" but I suppose it could be argued that it's more political correct?

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Farang
My complaint has nothing to do with political correctness. It has everything to do with proper argument. A simple example, for evidently simple people, is if we had a discussion on the Clinton Administration and referred to the Clinton Administration as the "Shitsticks." Now, if you had a valid argument against a policy of this administration, framing that argument using the term "Shitsticks" wouldn't really get you very far with your opponent. No matter how valid your argument, your use of that term would make it fall on deaf ears.

If you don't want to lump illegal immigrants in with legal immigrants, then say "illegal immigrants." If you want to make these people seem subhuman, say "illegals." Don't you realize the opponents argument relies on you being a selfish son-of-a-bitch who cares nothing for his fellow man? Rid him of that weapon by improving your terms.

Do you call Americans "citizens of the United States"? Gimme a break man. What a worthless argument. They are what are-illegal.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: rpanic

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Another point I havent seen discussed is the insurer's responsibility. Those of you who mistakenly think illegals with DL will actually GET or afford to get insurance forgot insurers do NOT have to insure them. AFAIK I havent seen any industry statements from insurers saying they will welcome them with open arms. My guess is they will be required to have SR22 or some variant of it to be insured.

The number one reason uninsured motorists do not get insurance is cost. How the hell is someone working under the table gonna afford it?

That?s what I always thought no way could they afford it even if it was an option, it is just another step in the direction of trying to legitimize their presence. I think you are right about the sr22 it would make the insurance way to expensive, even regular insurance is a lot of money. Maybe pro-illegal politicians will try to push government subsidized insurance for them next.

I and several people that I know have been in accidents with green carders and illegals and not one ever had insurance. The ones that did it turned out to be just a fake insurance card that they would flash to the police because insurance is mandatory here in California.

It's interesting...I found this little tidbit of legislation I didnt know about: The Real ID Act of 2005.

Among other things,

Documentation required before issuing a license or ID card
Before a card can be issued, the applicant must provide the following documentation[9]:

A photo ID, or a non-photo ID that includes full legal name and birthdate.
Documentation of birthdate.
Documentation of legal status and Social Security number
Documentation showing name and principal residence address.
Digital images of each identity document will be stored in each state DMV database.

Good luck with that.

 

[Noobtastic]

For those who are unaware, ILLEGAL is the OFFICIAL term for people living in the U.S who are not citizens.

Why is this dehumanizing? Dehumanizing is Calderon's policy of, "Get the f**k out, Mexico isn't going to help you. Go to the U.S, b*tches."

Of course, that doesn't matter, since the evil doer American should bend over backwards for everyone who is slightly impoverished while sacrificing social services for ordinary citizens who are equally impoverished.

Imagine all the money we would save in public education, health care, crime if the 15,000,000 illegal immigrants (I'll add that about 1/10 are just past their visa time) went back to their native country. Then we could use those resources to provide citizenship the people who WAIT IN LINE and spend THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS to get out of WAR TORN COUNTRIES.

I'd like to point out the hypocrisy in your angst against big business. You say big business should get a tax, you piss and moan about their evilness, but what you fail to appreciate is that big business is most benefiting off the exploitation of cheap labor sourced from illegals.

Not that I'm an advocate of big business, hell, I don't even shop at Walmart.


Wake up douchebags. Please remove yourselves from your political correct anus.