Jordan Neely killed on the subway by marine veteran. Hero or killer?

[fskimospy]

I really doubt he gets guilty.. people in NYC are so pissed off at what's happening on subways and they will use Neely as a weapon to make a point.

He will get off completely free.

I think this might be another one of those cases where your ultra right wing neighborhood is influencing your opinions. I mean I ride the subway every day as do most of my friends and nobody is down with murdering people on the subway if they are acting a little crazy.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I think this might be another one of those cases where your ultra right wing neighborhood is influencing your opinions. I mean I ride the subway every day as do most of my friends and nobody is down with murdering people on the subway if they are acting a little crazy.

Yeah I haven’t had to deal with it in a decade but the random homeless or drunk guy I would pretty much point and say “You! Off!”
Worked almost every time.

 

[Brainonska511]

I think this might be another one of those cases where your ultra right wing neighborhood is influencing your opinions. I mean I ride the subway every day as do most of my friends and nobody is down with murdering people on the subway if they are acting a little crazy.

Having ridden transit for long periods of time, there is one major thing people want, and that's kicking people out of the system that are anti-social (like harassing people, smoking on the train, etc). I don't think they need to be locked up or murdered though for being disorderly.

But then this also goes hand in hand with ensuring that people can be housed so that the subway doesn't become a moving homeless shelter that makes normies uncomfortable (of course, many of those same people won't realize the connection between lack of housing, the subway being a homeless shelter, and their insistence that their neighborhood be frozen in amber).

 

[fskimospy]

Having ridden transit for long periods of time, there is one major thing people want, and that's kicking people out of the system that are anti-social (like harassing people, smoking on the train, etc). I don't think they need to be locked up or murdered though for being disorderly.

But then this also goes hand in hand with ensuring that people can be housed so that the subway doesn't become a moving homeless shelter that makes normies uncomfortable (of course, many of those same people won't realize the connection between lack of housing, the subway being a homeless shelter, and their insistence that their neighborhood be frozen in amber).

I completely agree that disorder on the subway is an issue but yes, citizens murdering people is not the answer.

Really the answer is (once again) to hold the NYPD accountable because they simply don't police the trains and instead sit by the entrance on their phones.

 

[HomerJS]

Anyone want to convince me if the roles were reversed jury would have returned guilty already.

 

[Brainonska511]

I completely agree that disorder on the subway is an issue but yes, citizens murdering people is not the answer.

Really the answer is (once again) to hold the NYPD accountable because they simply don't police the trains and instead sit by the entrance on their phones.

Lol, expecting the NYPD to do the jobs the city pays them for? Those candies aren't going to crush themselves.

 

[Indus]

I think this might be another one of those cases where your ultra right wing neighborhood is influencing your opinions. I mean I ride the subway every day as do most of my friends and nobody is down with murdering people on the subway if they are acting a little crazy.

I don't think it was murder! (what was the motive for murder??)

Hell it wasn't even TOPO.

They tried to hold him down till the cops got there. The guy was high on drugs which likely contributed to his own demise by injuring his organs.

 

[WelshBloke]

This is the guy that maintained a choke hold on someone for 60 seconds after they lost consciousness?
60 seconds is a long time. Sit there now and count out 60 seconds in your head and imagine maintaining the sort of pressure on someones neck that's needed to make them lose consciousness for that long.

 

[Brainonska511]

I don't think it was murder! (what was the motive for murder??)

Hell it wasn't even TOPO.

They tried to hold him down till the cops got there. The guy was high on drugs which likely contributed to his own demise by injuring his organs.

He escalated the situation and choked him to death. He didn't need to get involved to such a degree.

 

[WelshBloke]

The guy was high on drugs which likely contributed to his own demise by injuring his organs.

Lol. You're going to go with that rather than the guy literally choking him?

 

[fskimospy]

I don't think it was murder! (what was the motive for murder??)

Hell it wasn't even TOPO.

They tried to hold him down till the cops got there. The guy was high on drugs which likely contributed to his own demise by injuring his organs.

He put the guy in a chokehold that he continued even after being warned by other passengers that he was going to kill Neely, and continued for about a minute after Neely became limp and nonresponsive.

That is not ok.

 

[Indus]

This is the guy that maintained a choke hold on someone for 60 seconds after they lost consciousness?
60 seconds is a long time. Sit there now and count out 60 seconds in your head and imagine maintaining the sort of pressure on someones neck that's needed to make them lose consciousness for that long.

Nevermind I read that wrong.. 60 seconds too long, not a total of 60 seconds..

Not murder.. maybe criminally negligent homicide at best but definitely not murder.

 

[fskimospy]

A 50 year old healthy man can still survive without being air for 60 seconds.. heck you do it yourself whenever you smell someone fart in a room and walk away.

Sure it's strenous but 60 seconds will not kill you.

Now if you wanna make that argument to 90 seconds I might agree with you.

It is 60 seconds AFTER Neely lost consciousness. The total time in a choke hold was 5-6 minutes.

 

[brycejones]

I don't think it was murder! (what was the motive for murder??)

Sobriety may be a state you need to investigate.

 

[WelshBloke]

It is 60 seconds AFTER Neely lost consciousness. The total time in a choke hold was 5-6 minutes.

Also he's not cutting off air to the lungs, he's cutting off blood to the brain. Neither are good but cutting off the brains blood supply has smaller margins of error!

 

[Indus]

Sobriety may be a state you need to investigate.

Lets go over the facts one more time..

"Neely boarded a New York City Subway train at the Second Avenue station just before it departed and reportedly began screaming that he was hungry and needed a job, saying that he was not afraid of going to prison and was ready to die, and threatening people. Freelance journalist Juan Alberto Vázquez, who witnessed the incident, said that Neely removed his jacket and threw it violently to the floor, resulting in other passengers moving away from him. Vázquez said that he did not see Neely assault anyone. Other witnesses reported fearing death from Neely's actions, including him throwing trash at other passengers and approaching people."

The more you look at it.. the victim is the instigator..

 

[brycejones]

Lets go over the facts one more time..

"Neely boarded a New York City Subway train at the Second Avenue station just before it departed and reportedly began screaming that he was hungry and needed a job, saying that he was not afraid of going to prison and was ready to die, and threatening people. Freelance journalist Juan Alberto Vázquez, who witnessed the incident, said that Neely removed his jacket and threw it violently to the floor, resulting in other passengers moving away from him. Vázquez said that he did not see Neely assault anyone. Other witnesses reported fearing death from Neely's actions, including him throwing trash at other passengers and approaching people."

The more you look at it.. the victim is the instigator..

Yep totally grounds for public execution. /s

You might want to read what you just posted. Guy was weird, threw trash made some people uncomfortable is what you just posted.

Clearly throwing his jacket on the ground is where he crossed the line.

 

[MrSquished]

THe bloodlust I see online including the NYC subreddit, that this guy should be found guilty of nothing and he is a hero, is fucking disturbing.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Lets go over the facts one more time..

"Neely boarded a New York City Subway train at the Second Avenue station just before it departed and reportedly began screaming that he was hungry and needed a job, saying that he was not afraid of going to prison and was ready to die, and threatening people. Freelance journalist Juan Alberto Vázquez, who witnessed the incident, said that Neely removed his jacket and threw it violently to the floor, resulting in other passengers moving away from him. Vázquez said that he did not see Neely assault anyone. Other witnesses reported fearing death from Neely's actions, including him throwing trash at other passengers and approaching people."

The more you look at it.. the victim is the instigator..

Instigator of what?

 

[Indus]

Instigator of what?

Everything that followed.

I just can't see a way where Penny is guilty of murder in this.

 

[WelshBloke]

The more you look at it.. the victim is the instigator..

I mean that doesn't mean that you get to kill him!

 

[MrSquished]

Everything that followed.

I just can't see a way where Penny is guilty of murder in this.

He is not being charged with murder. Manslaughter and negligent homicide.

 

[brycejones]

Everything that followed.

Being weird in public is grounds to be assaulted and choked to death?

 

[fskimospy]

Everything that followed.

I just can't see a way where Penny is guilty of murder in this.

He’s not charged with murder but with criminally negligent homicide, which seems like a very appropriate charge to me. A reasonable person should know doing that to someone can kill them.

 

[Indus]

Being weird in public is grounds to be assaulted and choked to death?

There's tons of people that're weird in public.

You might have seen the performances in the subway with boom boxes or playing instruments or singing or doing gymnastics for tips.. or just plain pan handling.. but none of those people were ever threatening others. Neely clearly was and that's not even disputed.

The threatening others is where it crossed the line for a lot of people imho.

And those same people will just classify it with 4 words without even any second thought: FAFO.