Jordan Neely killed on the subway by marine veteran. Hero or killer?

[HomerJS]

Jordan Neely was put in a rear naked choke hold for as much as 15 minutes according to independent journalist Juan Vasquez who witnessed and recorded the death of Neely by marine veteran Daniel Penny.

No witnesses have claimed Neely physically attacked anyone on the train. According to Vasquez, Jordan Neely was...

Juan Alberto Vazquez, who was on the subway, told NBC New York that the 30-year-old man was being aggressive. The man got on the subway car and began to say a somewhat aggressive speech, saying he was hungry, he was thirsty, that he didn’t care about anything, he didn’t care about going to jail, he didn’t care that he gets a big life sentence," Vazquez told the station in Spanish. "That 'it doesn’t even matter if I died.'" Vazquez caught some of the incident on camera. The video, obtained by NBC New York, showed the 24-year-old on the ground appearing to lock the man in a chokehold while two other subway passengers helped restrain him. Vazquez said the chokehold lasted for about 15 minutes. He told the station that no one thought the man would die even after he went limp.

Man dies after NYC subway rider puts him in a chokehold during train altercation

The 24-year-old rider was taken into custody for questioning and released. The Manhattan DA's office said an investigation is ongoing.

www.nbcnews.com

Jordan Neely who was known to have mental illness and depression was earning a living being a Michael Jackson style street dancer.

Jordan Neely had long history of mental health issues before tragic NYC subway chokehold death

Jordan Neely had more than a dozen run-ins with police due to his mental health issues — part of a lengthy history of instability that was tragically never remedied.

nypost.com

While the story is sad on its own what pisses my off is right wing media and Republicans (Matt Gaetz Greg Abbott DeSantis) turning Penny into a hero/good Samaritan as part of their continuation of the culture wars. In a Newsmax debate one of the panelists had to remind the righties, "If Someone Looks at Me Wrong… Should I Kill Them?"

I want to remind everyone who thinks the reaction from the right labeling Penny a hero is justified I want to ask you.

The incident where a white woman spit on a black woman and got her ass beat?

MSN

The drunk white girl who attacked the black dorm worker?

White Kentucky student in viral video showing her repeatedly using racial slur and assaulting Black students is charged

Sophia Rosing, a 22-year-old senior, told the arresting officer she has “lots of money” and gets “special treatment,” police said.

www.nbcnews.com

What if in these incidents the white attacker was killed by the black person? Think righties would be so quick to label them heroes?

Daniel Penny has been charged with second degree manslaughter.

 

[Leeea]

no intent to murder

manslaughter


Going to say involuntary manslaughter by Daniel Penny. Prosecute him for that.


Considering the context of the situation, give him all the breaks in sentencing. If possible, probation instead of prison, community service, etc. Minimums and exceptions all the way down.



A crazy person on public transport is a scary thing to be next to. Doesn't matter what color the guy is, feeling pretty sympathetic toward Daniel and the other riders in the car.

 

[senseamp]

Trial will show what transpired. People who say that we shouldn't even have a trial are delusional, to put it gently.

 

[HomerJS]

no intent to murder

manslaughter


Going to say involuntary manslaughter by Daniel Penny. Prosecute him for that.


Considering the context of the situation, give him all the breaks in sentencing. If possible, probation instead of prison, community service, etc. Minimums and exceptions all the way down.



A crazy person on public transport is a scary thing to be next to. Doesn't matter what color the guy is, feeling pretty sympathetic toward Daniel and the other riders in the car.

The charge is reckless and I agree. I'm no choke expert but putting someone in that hold for 15 minutes is likely to die. Penny is a marine and knows that.

I don't think Neelys race was a factor in the initial incident but right wing media is attempting to turn it into one.

 

[brycejones]

no intent to murder

manslaughter


Going to say involuntary manslaughter by Daniel Penny. Prosecute him for that.


Considering the context of the situation, give him all the breaks in sentencing. If possible, probation instead of prison, community service, etc. Minimums and exceptions all the way down.



A crazy person on public transport is a scary thing to be next to. Doesn't matter what color the guy is, feeling pretty sympathetic toward Daniel and the other riders in the car.

Oh yeah murdering someone because they make you feel uncomfortable is totally legit.

 

[Leeea]

Oh yeah murdering someone because they make you feel uncomfortable is totally legit.

Daniel Penny has been charged with second degree manslaughter.

Nobody involved believes Daniel Penny intended to murder anyone.

Except perhaps you. Perhaps read the full op before posting spin.


Daniel Penny tried to control the situation. Marines are not trained to control situations. They receive an entirely different type of training. The outcome is sad, but lets not ignore what the dead man said:

The man got on the subway car and began to say a somewhat aggressive speech, saying he was hungry, he was thirsty, that he didn’t care about anything, he didn’t care about going to jail, he didn’t care that he gets a big life sentence," Vazquez told the station in Spanish. "That 'it doesn’t even matter if I died.'"

"big life sentence"
"it doesn’t even matter if I died"

To a reasonable person, that sounds like the prelude to an act of mass violence. Mass shooting. Etc. They happen every day in this country. Daniel Penny is in a NY subway car, most people are not going to flee effectively. Daniel Penny is likely one of those unable to flee effectively. With the information presented to him, the least bad choice is to engage and neutralize the threat to everyone on the subway car, as he was trained.

I am no legal expert, but based off of that, I question if their is a jury of New York subway riders that are going to be found that are going to convict Daniel Penny of anything.

 

[WelshBloke]

I am no legal expert, but based off of that, I question if their is a jury of New York subway riders that are going to be found that are going to convict Daniel Penny of anything.

Continuing to choke someone for about 15 minutes after they lose consciousness is not ok. The guy stopped being a threat seconds into that hold.

 

[eelw]

Wonder what will happen to the other 2 guys helping hold down his arms?

 

[WelshBloke]

Sounds like the people around were aware of the danger to Neelys life and made Penny aware. Penny continued with the choke after this.

Jordan Neely: What happened in NYC subway chokehold case?

Video shows Daniel Penny with his arms around Jordan Neely's neck for about two minutes and 55 seconds.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Pohemi]

Continuing to choke someone for about 15 minutes after they lose consciousness is not ok. The guy stopped being a threat seconds into that hold.

This was the biggest thing that made me say WTF. Excessive and sustained force, and Penny knew what he was doing (ie proper rear naked choke) and what the effect/outcome could or would be after holding it for 15 minutes.

I don't care if it was adrenaline that made Penny sit and hold the choke for so long, there's absolutely no excuse or justification for killing someone for being loud and disruptive on public transportation. It's NYC on the subway...like that shit doesn't happen numerous times daily throughout the subway system?

Neely never laid hands on anyone else, much less attacked anyone during his ranting. No excuse for killing him IMHO, and 2nd degree manslaughter is the least that Penny should be charged with.

 

[nOOky]

After the guy was out it was over. Someone should have kicked the fucker in the side of the head to make him stop, but then they'd be on video also. The charges seem appropriate.

 

[WelshBloke]

This was the biggest thing that made me say WTF. Excessive and sustained force, and Penny knew what he was doing (ie proper rear naked choke) and what the effect/outcome could or would be after holding it for 15 minutes.

Is the 15 minutes confirmed? 15 minutes is a hell of a long time, particularly in an adrenaline fuelled situation. It would be easy for 5 minutes (or less) to seem like 15 if it wasn't actively timed.

 

[Pohemi]

Is the 15 minutes confirmed? 15 minutes is a hell of a long time, particularly in an adrenaline fuelled situation. It would be easy for 5 minutes (or less) to seem like 15 if it wasn't actively timed.

Only based on a few witnesses, but the only video recorded on someone's phone was only several minutes long. It could be an exaggeration of course, but it was more than a single person that attested to it AFAIK.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Is the 15 minutes confirmed? 15 minutes is a hell of a long time, particularly in an adrenaline fuelled situation. It would be easy for 5 minutes (or less) to seem like 15 if it wasn't actively timed.

I'd still be curious as to what his response would be to 'why did you continue to cut off air to his brain after he lost consciousness?'.

 

[WelshBloke]

I'd still be curious as to what his response would be to 'why did you continue to cut off air to his brain after he lost consciousness?'.

Yeah but continuing for 30 seconds could be explained as you not being sure he'd lost conciousness. 15 minutes is straight up trying to kill someone.

 

[Ajay]

I'd still be curious as to what his response would be to 'why did you continue to cut off air to his brain after he lost consciousness?'.

It actually cuts off blood to the Brain. Normally, it takes about 30 seconds for the recipient to pass out - though they usually regain consciousness quickly. IIRC, more than two minutes can cause brain damage depending on how ‘effective' the hold was. Even if Penney let up after 5 minutes, Neeley wouldn’t have ever been the same again.

I'm waiting for more evidence before developing an opinion. If people on the train were afraid of being physically harmed, rather than just uncomfortable - that changes the situation. Need more info from actual passengers.

 

[brycejones]

Nobody involved believes Daniel Penny intended to murder anyone.

Except perhaps you. Perhaps read the full op before posting spin.


Daniel Penny tried to control the situation. Marines are not trained to control situations. They receive an entirely different type of training. The outcome is sad, but lets not ignore what the dead man said:

"big life sentence"
"it doesn’t even matter if I died"

To a reasonable person, that sounds like the prelude to an act of mass violence. Mass shooting. Etc. They happen every day in this country. Daniel Penny is in a NY subway car, most people are not going to flee effectively. Daniel Penny is likely one of those unable to flee effectively. With the information presented to him, the least bad choice is to engage and neutralize the threat to everyone on the subway car, as he was trained.

I am no legal expert, but based off of that, I question if their is a jury of New York subway riders that are going to be found that are going to convict Daniel Penny of anything.

He was murdered, killed, homicided, man slaughtered, offed, whacked...

I wasn't talking in the legal sense. I'm sorry though in all seriousness if you keep someone in a chokehold though for 15 minutes I really do question if man slaughter is the right charge.

Its really cool though that you're totally ready to kill support killing your fellow humans though because they act weird. WTF is wrong with this country?

 

[brycejones]

Yeah but continuing for 30 seconds could be explained as you not being sure he'd lost conciousness. 15 minutes is straight up trying to kill someone.

Well according to @Leeea that's like totally cool, no big deal.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Too many people with mental problems on the streets, attacking innocent bystanders. This person was one of them according to eye witness accounts. Did the defender go to far defending them? Definitely. But let a jury of his peers decide.

I see crazy people everywhere. I call them "street performers". They are crazy people just standing in an intersection jumping up and down waving and screaming at passerbys, making faces, doing dances, jumping in front of traffic ...anything for attention.

When they get no attention they get violent. Hopefully the police are there to take them to county hospitals for mental treatment.


My brother went to a county hospital not too long ago for a broken ankle. It was filled with crazy people. Lots of them who did not want to be discharged, most were on mental drugs like Prozac, etc.

My brother said lots of people had to be ejected by hospital cops because they refused to leave. Others had to be tied up in beds and given their mental drugs.

Total craziness these days.


This is not an isolated incident. Sometimes these crazies get guns and go on killing sprees. I blame over population. It is sad but true and there is not much we can do about it.

 

[Pohemi]

Too many people with mental problems on the streets, attacking innocent bystanders. This person was one of them according to eye witness accounts.

You just can't help yourself, can you? Second sentence in your post and you're already lying. Which invalidates the rest of your post (which the rest of is also full of nonsense, so no loss there).

He attacked no one. Put his hands on no one. Nothing justifies what was done to him. If people like him scare your feels, then maybe stay under your shitty rock and away from the rest of the public.

 

[Brainonska511]

Antisocial behavior, whether from mental illness or just being an asshole, doesn't warrant a death sentence. Having ridden on public transit for years, there is a simple solution when people are being jerks: move to another car, or the authorities should escort the offender out of the system. There is a wide berth of options between doing nothing and let people run wild and homicide, and we shouldn't be going to the homicide option.

Neely's killer deserves to be charged and hopefully convicted.

 

[aigomorla]

Penny is a marine and knows that.

Penny is a Marine Sargent Honorably Discharged.

Who is Daniel Penny? Marine charged in Jordan Neely chokehold subway death from NY

Daniel Penny, the Marine facing a manslaughter charge in the subway chokehold killing of Jordan Neely, grew up in a middle-class military family on Long Island.

nypost.com

Daniel Penny served 4 years in the Marines and was deployed twice, rising to the rank of sergeant before he was honorably discharged in 2021, his lawyer said.

The guy was trained to do exactly what he did.
No one else bothered.
His Soldier instinct to protect citizens fired off.

You can take the soldier away from the battlefield, but never the battlefield away from the solider mentally.
We have part blame on this too, because that is how we trained the United States Marines to keep them alive on the field.

Im not saying its right, but again, he did what we trained him to, even though its not the proper battlefield.
I agree with the manslaughter charge... however involuntary, and with all the mins attached.
The Soldier could still be under PTSD, when he saw the escalation.
It is unfortunate, but again, we trained the guy to do what he did, and then let him go.
We also bear some responsibility.

Those of you who served, I thank you for your service.

 

[Indus]

I don't think he'll be found guilty.

For one I rode the subways and am too scared to do it now unless absolutely have to. Too many thugs, too many violent assholes who're mentally sick and can't treat other human beings with a little respect.

That and there was no intent to kill him, much less hurt him, only to stop Neely from hurting others as he was flailing till the cops got there.

So it'll be very hard for the prosecution to prove guilt here, when there's reasonable doubt all over the place and rightfully so..

Not enough cops, not enough mental health services.. the politicians are guilty for Neely's death.

 

[skyking]

If every mentally unstable person who talked big on the bus or train got a beatdown or choked out, there would be a hell of a death toll. He did not need to touch the guy that had not touched anyone else.
Do you see any report of the victim actually assaulting anyone? Fuck no. Keep your hands to yourself and MYOB until you can't.
I've ridden the bus with folks like the victim. I'm a big guy and completely capable of rendering harm, but I never had to do a thing. They did no harm other than make riders uncomfortable.
That's a hell of a reason to die " they made me uncomfortable".

 

[brycejones]

Too many people with mental problems on the streets, attacking innocent bystanders. This person was one of them according to eye witness accounts. Did the defender go to far defending them? Definitely. But let a jury of his peers decide.

I see crazy people everywhere. I call them "street performers". They are crazy people just standing in an intersection jumping up and down waving and screaming at passerbys, making faces, doing dances, jumping in front of traffic ...anything for attention.

When they get no attention they get violent. Hopefully the police are there to take them to county hospitals for mental treatment.


My brother went to a county hospital not too long ago for a broken ankle. It was filled with crazy people. Lots of them who did not want to be discharged, most were on mental drugs like Prozac, etc.

My brother said lots of people had to be ejected by hospital cops because they refused to leave. Others had to be tied up in beds and given their mental drugs.

Total craziness these days.


This is not an isolated incident. Sometimes these crazies get guns and go on killing sprees. I blame over population. It is sad but true and there is not much we can do about it.

Felix I truly hope you get help for whatever your mental illness is.