JOIN THE BOYCOTT FOR BATTLEFIELD 2142!

[MajorMullet]

Count me in. I won't be buying this garbage.

 

[SwiftWind]

Need to start maintaining a list of alternative games to play instead of BF2142. I'm a big CS:S fan, my friends recommend DoD:Source. What do you recommend?

P.S.

UT2k7 ships on 1/1/07

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: SwiftWind
Need to start maintaining a list of alternative games to play instead of BF2142. I'm a big CS:S fan, my friends recommend DoD:Source. What do you recommend?

P.S.

UT2k7 ships on 1/1/07

Quake Wars, Huxley, UT 2007, Team Fortress 2 (and Portal!), WoW expansion, Hellgate: London, Defcon

 

[josh6079]

List Updated and PM'ed to OP.

Here's something I found....

...They will never access files not directly related to the game and no personal data is collected (cookies, account login details, gameplay behavior, surfing history, or otherwise). The advertisement function only runs while BF2142 is running.

A unique ID number is assigned the first time a player joins an online game, which is then stored locally on the PC and not linked to any personal details. The in-game advertisement gathers what DICE refers to as ?impression data,? such as location of the billboard in the game or duration of advertisement impression. It allows the program to calculate how many people have seen the ad but not who has seen it.

This is what got me:

All of this serves to clarify what exactly this ?spyware? accomplishes, but will it appease the player population, or will people still see this as an invasion of their privacy? As far as game immersion goes, according to Dice, the ads are consciously placed so as not to disturb the player?s overall gaming experience.

Then why not even put ads in the game? If they didn't want to disturb the gamers gaming experience, why even put it in there for a chance of attention? That is BS. That's exactly what they're wanting to do: disturb the gaming the buyer will be doing and hope that what ever disturbs it will yield a purchase somewhere else. This is one of the main reasons why I myself am boycotting this game.

Ads fit the unique environment of each level in the game. At this time, DICE was unable to comment on the implementation of Chevrolet Battle Walkers or Coca Cola Sentry Guns.

They "fit?" How do the ads from a current time period fit in a setting of the future?

While it is good to hear how the adware doesn't actively monitor your browsing habits and that the software itself only runs while BF 2142 is running, that isn't the reason for which I'm boycotting this game. It isn't because of just the advertising in gaming media--I can understand that happening in racing games, sport games, and even Swat 4.

If you think about it, this stuff is basically Spam. What is Spam? S*** you don't want. It's that stuff that gets sent to your e-mail with ads related to your region and even sometimes you hobbies. IGA has done the same thing and moved a kind of Spam from an individuals e-mail account to an individuals game. In fact, they've joined the two so to deny the Spam is to deny the game as well.

When you add in the fact that they don't forwarn a buyer about this before opening the box, their poor excuse for even using IGA instead of a mandatory registration process in which the buyer would choose what infromation to give them instead of opting to get adware on their computer, their even poorer excuse for using this to cut production costs with a game whose engine they already had and have been using for over a year. This is more or less a BF2 mod reskinned and packaged with a $50 price tag with a microsoft security update waiting to be uninstalled. Nothing stinks worse in this than EA/Dice's lazyness and greed.

That's why I'm boycotting it. I'm glad to see others joining in too because if EA didn't get any sort of backlash from this debacle, who knows how popular this tactic will become.

 

[Smilin]

By the way guys. That is NOT a trivial security update that has some convenient workaround.

 

[xtabi]

I have played BF since BF42, Desart Combat, Vietnam, BF2, BF2 SF, BF2 AF. However, I started play FPS games back when Duke Nukem came out. And Quake World and then moved on to QII, Q3A.

No online game has better net code than ID Games. I love BF2 but the netcode is such crap that, until the resove the problems with it (not tomention all of the other bugs), will I buy another BF game.

With that said you can add me to the list. I refuse to buy a crappy game.

And with Quake Wars coming out soon I would much rather wait on it.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: xtabi
No online game has better net code than ID Games.

Oh yes. Not only is the netcode itself beautiful but so is the prediction software that fills in for lost data. People always think of his graphic engine genius first, but Carmack got this stuff down to an artform in Q2/Q3. I think someone else on the team also added some compression (to help modem players) when Q3:Team Arena came out.

Quakeworld (ah..such fondness) had some pretty pimp netcode as well. It was the first native non-ipx stuff available IIRC.

 

[xtabi]

Exactly! What is very sad is thinking about all of the new ppl that got into gaming before playing any of the Quake series of games. They don't know what it is like to play a mirror smooth on-line game.

remember the pushlatency -### Command to offset model lag in Quakewolrd

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: xtabi
I have played BF since BF42, Desart Combat, Vietnam, BF2, BF2 SF, BF2 AF. However, I started play FPS games back when Duke Nukem came out. And Quake World and then moved on to QII, Q3A.

No online game has better net code than ID Games. I love BF2 but the netcode is such crap that, until the resove the problems with it (not tomention all of the other bugs), will I buy another BF game.

With that said you can add me to the list. I refuse to buy a crappy game.

And with Quake Wars coming out soon I would much rather wait on it.

id's netcode is very good, but my vote goes to valve's in the end.

I've been playing games since forever, and netcode in FPS games seems to come in three variations.

1) You click the button, and your weapon does appear to fire for a split second due to the lag. The way Unreal has done it. Its not a bad way...you can easily compensate for the lag cause its obvious how much youre lagging. If you've got a fast enough connection, it's barely noticible, unless youre sniping.

2) You click, your weapon fires immediately, and the shot goes out immediately. Unless you are lagging very bad, >100ms, it feels like playing on a LAN. How valve has been doing it ever since CS, and I dont think anyone would say CS had bad netcode. Call of duty works the same way as well.

3) You click the button, the weapon appears to fire immediately, but the shot doesn't go out until a split second later. The way quake and BF2 handles it. The difference between the two is hard to explain, but quake's has always felt more reliable and snappy, and you or anyone else never seem to jump around. Most quake weapons are also projectile weapons. But this is by far the worst way to deal with it, especially with hitscan weapons like guns. You cannot easily compensate for your lag. You'll swear youre sniping someone, but they're not getting tagged cause they've already moved - you think you fired...but you didnt. You can unload a whole clip in someones face, and if they have a lower ping than you, they could still easily kill you.

BF is the only game I've ever played where I'll get lag from just walking around, no matter how long my ping. It just jitters around. I've fallen off of staircases because of it. God forbid you get into a moving vehicle with someone who doesn't have a <10ms ping...it's all over the place.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

With all the spyware and the bugs, no thanks, count me in. Will not buy 2142, and will make an extreme effort to not buy any other ea games, pc or console.

 

[xtabi]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: xtabi
I have played BF since BF42, Desart Combat, Vietnam, BF2, BF2 SF, BF2 AF. However, I started play FPS games back when Duke Nukem came out. And Quake World and then moved on to QII, Q3A.

No online game has better net code than ID Games. I love BF2 but the netcode is such crap that, until the resove the problems with it (not tomention all of the other bugs), will I buy another BF game.

With that said you can add me to the list. I refuse to buy a crappy game.

And with Quake Wars coming out soon I would much rather wait on it.

id's netcode is very good, but my vote goes to valve's in the end.

I've been playing games since forever, and netcode in FPS games seems to come in three variations.

1) You click the button, and your weapon does appear to fire for a split second due to the lag. The way Unreal has done it. Its not a bad way...you can easily compensate for the lag cause its obvious how much youre lagging. If you've got a fast enough connection, it's barely noticible, unless youre sniping.

2) You click, your weapon fires immediately, and the shot goes out immediately. Unless you are lagging very bad, >100ms, it feels like playing on a LAN. How valve has been doing it ever since CS, and I dont think anyone would say CS had bad netcode. Call of duty works the same way as well.

3) You click the button, the weapon appears to fire immediately, but the shot doesn't go out until a split second later. The way quake and BF2 handles it. The difference between the two is hard to explain, but quake's has always felt more reliable and snappy, and you or anyone else never seem to jump around. Most quake weapons are also projectile weapons. But this is by far the worst way to deal with it, especially with hitscan weapons like guns. You cannot easily compensate for your lag. You'll swear youre sniping someone, but they're not getting tagged cause they've already moved - you think you fired...but you didnt. You can unload a whole clip in someones face, and if they have a lower ping than you, they could still easily kill you.

BF is the only game I've ever played where I'll get lag from just walking around, no matter how long my ping. It just jitters around. I've fallen off of staircases because of it. God forbid you get into a moving vehicle with someone who doesn't have a <10ms ping...it's all over the place.

I think you must have your games mixed up because no one who has ever played a Quake game on-line, that I can recall, has ever complained about anything dealing with the netcode. You can pull up review after review and you would be hard pressed to find anything other than them stating it is the level at which all online games should be measured for the way ID (Carmack) wrote the netcode.

CS is good, but very clumsy feeling compaired to QIII. Just jumping on boxes is not even the same smooth feeling.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: xtabi

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: xtabi
I have played BF since BF42, Desart Combat, Vietnam, BF2, BF2 SF, BF2 AF. However, I started play FPS games back when Duke Nukem came out. And Quake World and then moved on to QII, Q3A.

No online game has better net code than ID Games. I love BF2 but the netcode is such crap that, until the resove the problems with it (not tomention all of the other bugs), will I buy another BF game.

With that said you can add me to the list. I refuse to buy a crappy game.

And with Quake Wars coming out soon I would much rather wait on it.

id's netcode is very good, but my vote goes to valve's in the end.

I've been playing games since forever, and netcode in FPS games seems to come in three variations.

1) You click the button, and your weapon does appear to fire for a split second due to the lag. The way Unreal has done it. Its not a bad way...you can easily compensate for the lag cause its obvious how much youre lagging. If you've got a fast enough connection, it's barely noticible, unless youre sniping.

2) You click, your weapon fires immediately, and the shot goes out immediately. Unless you are lagging very bad, >100ms, it feels like playing on a LAN. How valve has been doing it ever since CS, and I dont think anyone would say CS had bad netcode. Call of duty works the same way as well.

3) You click the button, the weapon appears to fire immediately, but the shot doesn't go out until a split second later. The way quake and BF2 handles it. The difference between the two is hard to explain, but quake's has always felt more reliable and snappy, and you or anyone else never seem to jump around. Most quake weapons are also projectile weapons. But this is by far the worst way to deal with it, especially with hitscan weapons like guns. You cannot easily compensate for your lag. You'll swear youre sniping someone, but they're not getting tagged cause they've already moved - you think you fired...but you didnt. You can unload a whole clip in someones face, and if they have a lower ping than you, they could still easily kill you.

BF is the only game I've ever played where I'll get lag from just walking around, no matter how long my ping. It just jitters around. I've fallen off of staircases because of it. God forbid you get into a moving vehicle with someone who doesn't have a <10ms ping...it's all over the place.

I think you must have your games mixed up because no one who has ever played a Quake game on-line, that I can recall, has ever complained about anything dealing with the netcode. You can pull up review after review and you would be hard pressed to find anything other than them stating it is the level at which all online games should be measured for the way ID (Carmack) wrote the netcode.

CS is good, but very clumsy feeling compaired to QIII. Just jumping on boxes is not even the same smooth feeling.

I'm far from complaining about Q3's netcode. I think it's excellent, and a standard by which others should be judged. The prediction and movement is 100%. The disconnect between your weapon firing and the shot going out is rarely a problem for id games, because they are either projectiles (rockets, nails, lightning) that you can clearly see. Although it has changed over time, because IIRC, quake 2 and 1 were more similar to UT - you click, it fires later. It is taking your lag into account, and making no exceptions for HPBs. It's fair because everyone is playing by the same rules, for better or for worse.

CS fails a little bit when interacting with other players. In a sense, it's taking a shortcut. It's basically saying regardless of your connection, if you aim at someone and fire, you should hit them....up to a point. And because of that shortcut, things get a little weird every now and then. You'll have backed off behind a wall, but you might still die a split second later. Collisions between players and the environment get a little weird. Its fair because everyone is essentially on the same playing field, sometimes you benefit, sometimes you dont.

Both are more than playable, and with broadband, it's a non issue. But when not even a 25 ping can get you smooth play, as in 2142, you know there's a SERIOUS problem.

 

[xtabi]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: xtabi

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: xtabi
I have played BF since BF42, Desart Combat, Vietnam, BF2, BF2 SF, BF2 AF. However, I started play FPS games back when Duke Nukem came out. And Quake World and then moved on to QII, Q3A.

No online game has better net code than ID Games. I love BF2 but the netcode is such crap that, until the resove the problems with it (not tomention all of the other bugs), will I buy another BF game.

With that said you can add me to the list. I refuse to buy a crappy game.

And with Quake Wars coming out soon I would much rather wait on it.

id's netcode is very good, but my vote goes to valve's in the end.

I've been playing games since forever, and netcode in FPS games seems to come in three variations.

1) You click the button, and your weapon does appear to fire for a split second due to the lag. The way Unreal has done it. Its not a bad way...you can easily compensate for the lag cause its obvious how much youre lagging. If you've got a fast enough connection, it's barely noticible, unless youre sniping.

2) You click, your weapon fires immediately, and the shot goes out immediately. Unless you are lagging very bad, >100ms, it feels like playing on a LAN. How valve has been doing it ever since CS, and I dont think anyone would say CS had bad netcode. Call of duty works the same way as well.

3) You click the button, the weapon appears to fire immediately, but the shot doesn't go out until a split second later. The way quake and BF2 handles it. The difference between the two is hard to explain, but quake's has always felt more reliable and snappy, and you or anyone else never seem to jump around. Most quake weapons are also projectile weapons. But this is by far the worst way to deal with it, especially with hitscan weapons like guns. You cannot easily compensate for your lag. You'll swear youre sniping someone, but they're not getting tagged cause they've already moved - you think you fired...but you didnt. You can unload a whole clip in someones face, and if they have a lower ping than you, they could still easily kill you.

BF is the only game I've ever played where I'll get lag from just walking around, no matter how long my ping. It just jitters around. I've fallen off of staircases because of it. God forbid you get into a moving vehicle with someone who doesn't have a <10ms ping...it's all over the place.

I think you must have your games mixed up because no one who has ever played a Quake game on-line, that I can recall, has ever complained about anything dealing with the netcode. You can pull up review after review and you would be hard pressed to find anything other than them stating it is the level at which all online games should be measured for the way ID (Carmack) wrote the netcode.

CS is good, but very clumsy feeling compaired to QIII. Just jumping on boxes is not even the same smooth feeling.

I'm far from complaining about Q3's netcode. I think it's excellent, and a standard by which others should be judged. The prediction and movement is 100%. The disconnect between your weapon firing and the shot going out is rarely a problem for id games, because they are either projectiles (rockets, nails, lightning) that you can clearly see. Although it has changed over time, because IIRC, quake 2 and 1 were more similar to UT - you click, it fires later. It is taking your lag into account, and making no exceptions for HPBs. It's fair because everyone is playing by the same rules, for better or for worse.

CS fails a little bit when interacting with other players. In a sense, it's taking a shortcut. It's basically saying regardless of your connection, if you aim at someone and fire, you should hit them....up to a point. And because of that shortcut, things get a little weird every now and then. You'll have backed off behind a wall, but you might still die a split second later. Collisions between players and the environment get a little weird. Its fair because everyone is essentially on the same playing field, sometimes you benefit, sometimes you dont.

Both are more than playable, and with broadband, it's a non issue. But when not even a 25 ping can get you smooth play, as in 2142, you know there's a SERIOUS problem.

Thanks for the reply. I agree with the 25 ping and nonplayability. I have not tried 2142, and don't intend to. However, based on my experance with BF2's gameplay I dont need to imagine what 2142 is going to be like. And trust me I have played BF2 a lot! Just check out bf2s.com Xtabi and you will see hehe

I'm not one of those people that throw around my optinion without first trying out a game for a decent amount of time. Is BF2 fun? Yes. But there is no chance in heck that I'm paying (rewarding) EA for more mediocrity. Yes I have had fun playing BF2, and have kicked some major butt playing it, but that is not enough for me to go by 2142. Just too many issues that, after a year, still need resolved in BF2 for me to spend more money on another EA title.

Bring on QUAKE WARS!

 

[SwiftWind]

Quake Wars looks real sharp. I can't wait!

 

[amish]

sure i'll boycott it. i haven't even played BF2.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: xtabi
I have played BF since BF42, Desart Combat, Vietnam, BF2, BF2 SF, BF2 AF. However, I started play FPS games back when Duke Nukem came out. And Quake World and then moved on to QII, Q3A.

No online game has better net code than ID Games. I love BF2 but the netcode is such crap that, until the resove the problems with it (not tomention all of the other bugs), will I buy another BF game.

With that said you can add me to the list. I refuse to buy a crappy game.

And with Quake Wars coming out soon I would much rather wait on it.

id's netcode is very good, but my vote goes to valve's in the end.

I've been playing games since forever, and netcode in FPS games seems to come in three variations.

1) You click the button, and your weapon does appear to fire for a split second due to the lag. The way Unreal has done it. Its not a bad way...you can easily compensate for the lag cause its obvious how much youre lagging. If you've got a fast enough connection, it's barely noticible, unless youre sniping.

2) You click, your weapon fires immediately, and the shot goes out immediately. Unless you are lagging very bad, >100ms, it feels like playing on a LAN. How valve has been doing it ever since CS, and I dont think anyone would say CS had bad netcode. Call of duty works the same way as well.

3) You click the button, the weapon appears to fire immediately, but the shot doesn't go out until a split second later. The way quake and BF2 handles it. The difference between the two is hard to explain, but quake's has always felt more reliable and snappy, and you or anyone else never seem to jump around. Most quake weapons are also projectile weapons. But this is by far the worst way to deal with it, especially with hitscan weapons like guns. You cannot easily compensate for your lag. You'll swear youre sniping someone, but they're not getting tagged cause they've already moved - you think you fired...but you didnt. You can unload a whole clip in someones face, and if they have a lower ping than you, they could still easily kill you.

BF is the only game I've ever played where I'll get lag from just walking around, no matter how long my ping. It just jitters around. I've fallen off of staircases because of it. God forbid you get into a moving vehicle with someone who doesn't have a <10ms ping...it's all over the place.

mmm, couple things:

First, Valves Half-Life and CS netcode was written by idSoftware. It is taken from Quake 1 (not q2 as some often think because hl came out after q2).

Given that, I question your other observations regarding #2 and #3 you mentioned.

If someone uses netcode that allows you to fire immediately under lag then they are doing client-side hit calculations. This will always be fast no matter what the latency, however idSoftware (and most everyone I thought) never use this because it allows cheating..easily!

 

[Enclave]

I Googled around for excactly such an innitiative, and joined the Anandtech forums solely for signing up for this Boycott. Some might say that I am too old for computer games (31), but I enjoy them and I excpect large companies like EA to deliver merchandise according to the standars consumers expect to get in any and all products they pay good money for.
I have contacteed EA several times in regards to problems with the games(I do this to let them know, NOT because I think they will ever give me any helpful help, or solutions) Their response so far is summed up in this picture
(note that the "do no evil" part of the picture may be disputed by many)

I've had enough, plain and simple. They keep pushing these shiny, and I'll admitt very appealing, games, but as soon as you hand over they money they flip you the finger and leaves it up to forum members around the world to sort the mess out. its unacceptable, and I will not buy another EA game until I see amazed posts about the lack of bugs in say BF 3142 or a simlilarly imaginative named future releases.

Sorry for bad english or misspelling, this rant is brought to you from norway

Edit: had to remove some unintentionaly added code.

 

[Smilin]

Welcome to Anandtech! (and the boycott).




Be sure to change your default picture. It belays your newness far more than your postcount

 

[Enclave]

New here, old everywhere else

Anyways, I reckon the old santa look should suit a finely matured Norwegian just dandy.

Is there a way to link pictures directly into posts in this forum?, I tried the

tags with no luck.
Edit: fixed the smiley, added a question.

 

[Smilin]

The only way to get images in here is to hyperlink off to them at another server. You'll get a hyperlink in your post, not the actual picture.

 

[BD2003]

mmm, couple things:

First, Valves Half-Life and CS netcode was written by idSoftware. It is taken from Quake 1 (not q2 as some often think because hl came out after q2).

Given that, I question your other observations regarding #2 and #3 you mentioned.

If someone uses netcode that allows you to fire immediately under lag then they are doing client-side hit calculations. This will always be fast no matter what the latency, however idSoftware (and most everyone I thought) never use this because it allows cheating..easily!

Originally. It was significantly modified with a major release of CS, and has built in mechanisms to deter cheating.

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33820957

Is a huge, technical article on valves netcode. The pertinent parts, dealing with the *server side* lag compensation -

Let's say a player shoots at a target at client time 10.5. The firing information is packed into a user command and sent to the server. While the packet is on its way through the network, the server continues to simulate the world, and the target might have moved to a different position. The user commands arrives at server time 10.6 and the server wouldn't detect the hit, even though the player has aimed exactly at the target. This error is corrected by the server-side lag compensation (sv_unlag 1)

The lag compensation system keeps a history of all recent player positions for a time span of about one second (can be changed with sv_maxunlag). If a user command is executed, the server estimates at what time the command was created. This command execution time is calculated as followed:

Command Execution Time = Current Server Time - Client Latency - Client View Interpolation

Then the server moves all other players back to where they were at the command execution time. The user command is executed and the hit is detected correctly.

Which means - if you aim and shoot at someone, it will hit them, as long as your ping isnt absolutely absurd, theoretically >1000ms. In practice, it's hard to tell whether your ping is 50 or 150, but you know it when its over 200.

And regarding cheating -

The question arises, why is hit detection so complicated on the server? Doing the back tracking of player positions and dealing with precision errors while hit detection could be done client-side way easier and with pixel precision. The client would just tell the server with a "hit" message what player has been hit and where. We can't allow that simply because a game server can't trust the clients on such important decisions. Even if the client is "clean" and protected by VAC (Valve-Anti-Cheat), the packets could be still modified on a 3rd machine while routed to the game server. These "cheat proxies" could inject "hit" messages into the network packet without being detected by VAC (a "man-in-the-middle" attack).

Which is why the compensation is done on the server...not the client.

Network latencies and lag compensation can creates paradoxes that seem illogical compared to the real world. For example, you can be hit by an attacker you can't even see anymore because you already took cover. What happened is that the server moved your player hitboxes back in time, where you were still exposed to your attacker. This inconsistency problem can't be solved in general because of the relative slow packet speeds

Describes the phenomenon of getting hit ever after you've taken cover. Sure it sucks, and feels unfair when it happens, but you benefit from it just as often, and overall, the game feels far more solid IMHO.

 

[raincityboy]

You can add me to the boycott.
I stopped watching TV, because I got tired of the advertisements.
Hopefully they won't start a trend with this BS.

 

[Capt Caveman]

G4's take on the ads - The Loop

 

[josh6079]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
G4's take on the ads - The Loop

Awesome.

I think there were some initial over-reactions but even after we found out just what kind of peeks IGA is going to be making on the gamers system I couldn't help but feel like, "That's it? That's the reason why you've concocted a company to oversee the ingame advertisments and monitor your investors, is to find out where they live? Then you tell me that the point for the ads themselves are to cut costs? BF 2142 is just a completely reskinned official 'MOD' that the POE team could probably do in 2 weeks given the same resources and pay."

Like I said, EA really fumbled this one up. Sure some of their other games may not be so bad (if you still feel good about giving money to a company like EA) but as far as just BF 2142 goes, no way in hell is this game worth the $50 they've ripped some people off with so far.

EDIT: List updated and sent to OP.

 

[SwiftWind]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
G4's take on the ads - The Loop

Took them a while but at the end they did finally bring up the main points:

1. Whether a person agrees with EA's method or not, the boxes should be marked on the outside. People are now wrestling with stores to return their opened copies of BF2142 or Pre-orders.

2. If you pay for a game you shouldn't get ads. If you get ads, you should get a discount at least if not play the game for free. (aka "passing on the savings to the customer".)