John Carmack: the PC platform is not as important as the consoles

[jzodda]

I look at all this stuff as cyclical. I was playing games in the Atari 2600 era and the early PC days with DOS games. The console has had its ups and downs as well as the PC gaming industry. I remember in the 90s when Computer Gaming World would come out and be hundreds of pages in size. Those were good times for PC gaming. I don't see consoles going anywhere because unlike the 80s when the industry crashed the console of today does more than just play games. Hell the Wii has exercise "games" now too. PC gaming as we remember it from those days looks like its over. Thats not to say it does not have its place still. Also technology drives this stuff and who is to say that in the near future a new tech emerges for the PC that brings it back?

I don't mind the separation and can live with FPS and sports and things like Guitar Hero on the console and RPG, Strategy, and MMORPGs and Indie stuff for PC. Thats pretty much how I have it separated myself, although I hardly ever use my Xbox360. A good example of keeping PC gaming alive is Bioware and Mass Effect. I played it with the Xbox and thought it was good but playing on the PC was night and day. The UI is just so much better, and the game played so much better and looked better on the PC. That's an example of a great Port and I would not mind waiting over half a year after its console release to get it. What I don't like is when they won't port a good game and that seems to be increasing. Thats the sucky part- and they seem to be using piracy as the reason more and more and more.

The way Oblivion was released is another great example of how to do things right. Release it for multi platforms and then give a toolset to the modders. What amazing things have been created for Oblivion. Even a lousy game like Two Worlds comes out and the mod community gets hold of it and can try to make it fun. It will always be lousy on the XBOX though.

I can certainly accept that PC gaming is not what it was. That's why I went out and got an XBOX360. In fact I have 2 of them. One hooked up with the computer to this monitor and the other in the living room. What I would find hard to swallow is if games for the PC really start to get scarce. I hope that does not happen. I want PC games to be able to exist side by side with the console. In my view we owe a great deal of thanks to blizzard as its possible that WoW and some other online games are helping to keep the scene alive. Microsoft has to take some blame in this. I have friends that need me to help them install games. They can't install drivers properly or tech problems like crashes and the like and patching. Most of those friends don't bother at all anymore and just play on consoles so they don't have to ask for help and feel dumb. DirectX was supposed to make things easier but in some ways they have gotten worse. Especially if you add in the buggy DRM thats being thrown out there these days.

 

[Sureshot324]

Originally posted by: Golgatha
If consoles would just integrate a keyboard and mouse as a standard controller, you could pretty much play any PC game on a console. Why has this not happened?

IMO the Wii controller is the answer for this. With the new addon for the Wiimote that gives perfect motion detection, the controller should be able to serve as a mouse. Just use one button to toggle 'lifting' the mouse. The only problems are that it doesn't have enough buttons and the Wii isn't powerful enough to port most PC games. You don't really need a keyboard if you have enough buttons.

Hopefully these problems will be fixed in Nintendo's next gen console, or MS or Sony will make such a controller.

 

[bullbert]

Huh. Large corps are frequently run by egotistical bastards, that make decisions based on their on biases. Regardless of the potential profits or losses, some people just disregard all reports and studies and even common sense, and do what the want. Add in additional layers of idiocy and incompetence when egos clash.

Similar to forum fanboys but on a much smaller scale. Even when provided with more accurate ?facts?, and a better line of reasoning, their ?facts? and conclusion are never wrong, and anyone who disagrees must ?grow up? or ?get a clue?.

 

[BlueAcolyte]

WHY WHY WHY? Necro = bad.

 

[coloumb]

Originally posted by: BlueAcolyte
WHY WHY WHY? Necro = bad.

Because it's the end of the workday and I'm bored to tears [well..not me..but necromaniacs].

 

[PieIsAwesome]

Well, he has a point, if there's more money to be made on consoles then that's where all the games are going to be.

I like consoles because they simply work, provided you get no RROD. I pop in the game, and play. No fiddling with resolution and other settings trying to find the best combination, no "is this how the game is supposed to run?" Pretty much none of the problems that always seem to be encountered on the PC.

The only thing that is really holding me back from effectively abandoning my PC for gaming is the lack of keyboard and mouse or something equally awesome. The controller with analog sticks is no substitute, it makes the games a completely different, un-fun experience, and I was initially a console gamer too. It was the mouse, keyboard, and joystick along with the deep games that were only possible with those controls (such as RTS games, FPS, and flight sims) that brought me to PC gaming. Flight sims are pretty much dead, so are mech sims, RTS involves waiting for Starcraft 2 or playing older classics, and much of the shooters are also available on 360.

In addition to lack of keyboard and mouse, $100+ joysticks on the 360 do not help.

The Xim 2, already in the hands of a few, may finally bring the mouse and keyboard controls, as well as any other PC-compatible peripherals, to the 360. It supposedly works as well or almost as well as a mouse on the PC, Call of Duty 4 in particular is said to control exactly the same as on PC. It is very tempting, but the $150-$175 expected price of the pre-built Xim 2 is not.

The Wii almost had it right, trouble is all the Wii games suck and the hardware is too weak.

 

[samduhman]

I own consoles and a PC and the PC wins hands down in providing a better gaming experience. The problem these days is younger gamers don't get to experience pc gaming because they are blindly lead to the console platform by console fanboys and stores like gamestop.

I still LAN party and the kids who attend prefer PC gaming because they've actually had the opportunity to try it. Consoles are the inferior platform and the average console gamer just doesn't realize it. My PS2, Xbox, Gamecube, PS3 Wii have all gathered dust while I game daily on my PC. I've pretty much decided to give up console gaming after years of dumping thousands of dollars into it.

Oh, and backstabbing Carmack can kiss my ass. He used to create games that made people go out and buy $2000 dollar pcs but now he has become soft. Carmack = FAILED

 

[videogames101]

PC costs more to develop for because PC gamers expect more.... Carmack is just a lazy ass who can't get out a good game for PC. Why are PC sales down? Because we expect better then the shit devs are putting out there. You don't see Valve complaining about sales, thats because they actually release good games that SELL.

 

[FuryofFive]

yeah, i useto be hardcore console...then was hardcore pc for about 10 years...age 13-23.. now im kinda indifferent to PC games... kinda feeling that the ratio to realyl good to ehh games is kinda high... just recently spore.... that game was expected to be awesome.. ive pretty much played the entire game in under 5 hours.. i feel kinda jipped considering prey was the same length roughly 5 hours.. but i would say prey was a great game for its short length.

 

[KeypoX]

I agree, i guess i can let go as i am sick of paying all this damn money to upgrade, and there hasnt been a good PC game in a long time. Atleast one that i liked enough to actually play. Maybe im getting old

 

[KeypoX]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: 40sTheme
Yes, of course, the nail in the coffin for PC gaming...
What with only:
STALKER Clear Sky
Fallout 3
Starcraft 2
Diablo 3
Left 4 Dead
Dawn of War 2
WAR Online

All you've done is cite SEQUELS to games that were great prior to the fall of the PC as a gaming platform. I'm sure they'll be fantastic games, but you need SALES, too, and the sales of those games won't even be in the same league as GOW2.

I'm not a console fanboy, I'm a realist. A year ago, I was in the same stage of denial that you are now... but then companies like Epic and Infinity Ward showed me that the console can deliver on all fronts. I've accepted it.

Originally posted by: 40sTheme
Please take the PC gaming doomsaying out of the PC gaming forum.

Gee, I'm sorry - I thought I was entitled to an opinion. Seeing as how the title of the thread is "John Carmack: the PC platform is not as important as consoles", I thought I was pretty on-topic.

If you just want someone to tell you what you want to hear (i.e., lies), then buy a robot.

agreed and Fallout3 is a port lol...

 

[Jules]

lol @ this thread.

 

[Imaginer]

It sure doesn't help when companies like Alienware, Dell, And many more market high end gaming PCs as the so called de-facto absolue must have if one wants to get started with PC gaming. Prices like those combined with the accessibility and convience of a console in the living room (not to mention, not much has been pushed on the HTPC connectivity either) and you have a world wide market that is more inclined to go with consoles instead. Thats why you see sales numbers the way they are. The gaming PC market model did it in.

The average user does not realize that simply plugging one of a midrange video card for about $200 or maybe a bit more or less can get you adaquate visuals. The average user does not realize that an HDTV already is capable of hooking up a PC for a display with a simple cable. The average user doesn't realize that coupled with a wireless keyboard and trackball/mouse can effectively unchain the PC from the office and have a decent HTPC set. The average user - does not want to mess with updating drivers, configurations, compatabilities. There is not a unifying model marketed (like what intel did with centrino for the notebooks) to combine the baseline hardware, perhipherals, and software for PC gaming. That is just half of the story.

You have Steam which is somewhat realizing the new and somewhat effective distribution model. Had if Microsoft didn't dwell into the console and instead made the Windows Gaming portal like 360 Xbox Live for windows from the get-go, it would be in the same boat but will get the ball rolling somewhat - but like I said, if it did at the time, the hardware, components side is far from being conceived as mainstream - easy to use no wonder its #1 mantra.

I agree the PC gaming model NEEDS to be changed. But if anything, it is the consoles that are eventually becoming more PC like with their needed hard drives, patches... er I mean downloadable content. online, social networking. Those components have long existed in the PC area but it isn't nicely tightly integrated or consolidated. It is because the industy has too many players and not a unifying leader that has a vision outside of just bigger is better.

 

[Oyeve]

Originally posted by: KeypoX
I agree, i guess i can let go as i am sick of paying all this damn money to upgrade, and there hasnt been a good PC game in a long time. Atleast one that i liked enough to actually play. Maybe im getting old

Yeah, me too. Spent thousands on my PC and find it too much of a bother to even boot up sometimes. Been Xbox 360 for over a year now. Turn on my PC every couple of days to get my ISP email off the server. Sigh, if only a PC only killer game would come out soon.

 

[BenSkywalker]

PC costs more to develop for because PC gamers expect more....

They cost more because of the huge amount of configurations they need to run on, same reason they are horribly optimized.

Carmack is just a lazy ass who can't get out a good game for PC.

Carmack writes code. Could you please explain which game has had examples of anything less then absolutely stellar code from Carmack in it? Not just very good code, that is saved for second rate dev teams, I mean example of code from Carmack that isn't exceptional. I've tried getting this out of many people over the years, regularly I am shocked by how ignorant some of their responses are(it's the coders job to make sure level designs are fun....???).

You don't see Valve complaining about sales, thats because they actually release good games that SELL.

Well, they sell very well for PC titles, but still a different league then the highest end console offerings. Yeah, Valve's games don't do as well on consoles, largely because the console fan base has been spoiled too much with gameplay, and Valve doesn't measure up all that well on that end of game development.

 

[mi1stormilst]

Just thought I would chime in here. I have been gaming on the PC since 1984 (TI) and I have owned several Nintendo Platforms (64, Gamecube, etc) and am a current owner of two X-Box 360's and three nice PC gaming rigs. The bottom line is there is a place for all of these things. Like the old saying says "To each his own". Having said that ... consoles are no match for a PC when it comes to FPS. Consoles are better at sports or racing games. I personally wish I could hook up a Keyboard and Mouse to my 360's because then I would not have to maintain three computer for gaming with my kids. I have owned two of the Keyboard/Mouse adapters for the 360 and they plain suck...so I want native support for all shooting games. When that happens I will need 1-2 really cheap computers for the Internet. I am glad that at least there are choices and they all do what they are designed to do very well.

 

[samduhman]

I see the typical ex pc gamers now 360 fan boys snaking their way into the pc gaming forums spreading their vile poison. You can spot them a mile away. The say things like tired of upgrading, games "always" crash on my systems, consoles just work, play on my couch, no AAAAAA games, etc, etc.

You guys are a huge joke and are worse than people who have never pc gamed. They don't hang out in PC gaming forums or in gaming forums in general waiting to add fuel/troll on negative PC gaming articles. PC gaming is doing fine, hardware is cheaper than ever. Consoles are aspiring to be PCs but weaker versions of it. Even the DRM heavy Spore has already broke 1 million copies for proof that pc gaming is fine and the developers are the ones to blame = CARMACK and Cliffy B. Spore, millon copies sold

Whatever guys, PC gaming is rocking right now even with all the doomdaysayers like Carmack. I just bought a handful of PC games and see a bunch coming out that I want. Even if they are multiplatform. At least they will look better, control better, load quicker, cost less, improved upon and I won't have to pay for additional content. So take your jealous asses to console gameworld and hug each other while convincing yourselves "your" choice to quit PC gaming was the right one.

 

[FuryofFive]

Originally posted by: samduhman
I see the typical ex pc gamers now 360 fan boys snaking their way into the pc gaming forums spreading their vile poison. You can spot them a mile away. The say things like tired of upgrading, games "always" crash on my systems, consoles just work, play on my couch, no AAAAAA games, etc, etc.

You guys are a huge joke and are worse than people who have never pc gamed. They don't hang out in PC gaming forums or in gaming forums in general waiting to add fuel/troll on negative PC gaming articles. PC gaming is doing fine, hardware is cheaper than ever. Consoles are aspiring to be PCs but weaker versions of it. Even the DRM heavy Spore has already broke 1 million copies for proof that pc gaming is fine and the developers are the ones to blame = CARMACK and Cliffy B. Spore, millon copies sold

Whatever guys, PC gaming is rocking right now even with all the doomdaysayers like Carmack. I just bought a handful of PC games and see a bunch coming out that I want. Even if they are multiplatform. At least they will look better, control better, load quicker, cost less, improved upon and I won't have to pay for additional content. So take your jealous asses to console gameworld and hug each other while convincing yourselves "your" choice to quit PC gaming was the right one.

how old are u sam...are u a new pc gamer???we've been around for quite some time now...back from the quake 1 days and then some.
yes XB360 is essentially a downplayed computer.. u can download content,play game,play with other people, wathc movies...
heck u cant do your taxes,write things in word. and cant surf the web...

i was actually considering switcing over to the 360. with the lack of time i have to play games. and with the community on xbox live, of course fps games wont be as good.
im more afraid of the rrod...cuz u cant fix that heh. thats a good perk of pc's. i can diagnose and fix self problems.


But carmack is right. the money is in consoles...and thats kinda how its been for awhile.ask 10 of your friends what a northbridge is,or what PCI stands for..most of us know that 9/10 wont know. thats ur basic console user.. they dont care, and dont wanna care.