Joe Rogan Experiece with Ben Shapiro

[Vic]

Did I say authoritarian? I said Nazi.

Are you suggesting a Jew can be a Nazi? That's some pretty deep self-hate there...

Dipshit. Any idiot knows that the words 'nazi' and 'fascist' are just euphemisms for authoritarian.

And those SJW's! Why do they have to interrupt your free speech by daring to speak freely, right?

 

[Atreus21]

Stop.

I didn't read the rest, because this is the exact dumbshit I was talking about. You refuse to engage in the reality around you. There are real Nazis that are younger than you, today, and they are praising your service to them.

Fact.

Charlottseville happened. Accept your own fault in allowing that to happen, simply because you don't believe the possibility of it happening.

Zin: You're a nazi unless you agree with me.

Ugly: I disagree.

Zin: This is the exact dumbshit I was talking about.

Man that's titanic.

 

[Atreus21]

I know it's difficult to swallow, but many people can and do go through their lives without spouting bigoted drivel. It really isn't that hard, at least for most of us.

https://twitter.com/x/status/817968543211790336

-Ben Shapiro, healthcare savant

Makes sense to me. The value of services doesn't magically conform to what we can afford just because we need it. No amount of price controls or government strong-arming will change that.

 

[Vic]

Zin: You're a nazi unless you agree with me.

Ugly: I disagree.

Zin: This is the exact dumbshit I was talking about.

Man that's titanic.

He didn't say "You're a nazi unless you agree with me." He said that there are real Nazis. Which, of course, there are. Like at Charlottesville.
Why would you lie about that?

 

[Vic]

Makes sense to me. The value of services doesn't magically conform to what we can afford just because we need it. No amount of price controls or government strong-arming will change that.

At the same time, certain societal costs don't go away just because you choose to pretend that they don't exist, or because you assume that people with no financial ability to pay them will somehow pay them because you think they should. What do you think Christ would have thought about your attitude that people who can't afford health insurance should die for lack of health care?

 

[theeedude]

Its hilarious to me when conservatives still pretend to be intellectuals given what their movement has devolved to. They remind me of die hard communists.

 

[Atreus21]

He didn't say "You're a nazi unless you agree with me." He said that there are real Nazis. Which, of course, there are. Like at Charlottesville.
Why would you lie about that?

He told Ugly to accept his responsibility for allowing it to happen. He's accused him of abetting Nazis, and then derided any disagreement as dumb shit. That strikes me as pretty stupid and childish.

 

[ecogen]

Makes sense to me. The value of services doesn't magically conform to what we can afford just because we need it. No amount of price controls or government strong-arming will change that.

Yeah, because the values that you charge for healthcare in the U.S. are dictated by "the free market™". What was it again? Several thousand dollars for an ambulance ride to the hospital? Maybe you should go back to econ 101 and read up about market failures.

As for the bolded part, do us a favor and look at the rest of the first world, they seem to be doing fine without making their citizens have to choose between bankruptcy and death.

 

[Atreus21]

At the same time, certain societal costs don't go away just because you choose to pretend that they don't exist, or because you assume that people with no financial ability to pay them will somehow pay them because you think they should. What do you think Christ would have thought about your attitude that people who can't afford health insurance should die for lack of health care?

Healthcare service requires skilled professionals and expensive equipment. Those are in short supply, whereas demand for them is very high. By what system is a scarce resource best parceled out to the people who need it?

The judgment of history on that question overwhelmingly favors a free market. Scarce resources aren't magically made more plentiful by passing laws that state they must be free to all.

 

[fskimospy]

Healthcare service requires skilled professionals and expensive equipment. Those are in short supply, whereas demand for them is very high. By what system is a scarce resource best parceled out to the people who need it?

The judgment of history on that question overwhelmingly favors a free market. Scarce resources aren't magically made more plentiful by passing laws that state they must be free to all.

The judgment of the real world, today, on that question in regards to health care overwhelmingly favors strong government regulation. Health care has inelastic demand and near total price insensitivity. When you just got run over by a bus you aren't in a position to shop around for the cheapest emergency room nearby, for example.

The features of the health care system that make a free market not work don't magically go away by pretending they don't exist. There's been a real life experiment on the best ways to go about provisioning health care and it's been going on for decades. The free market lost. That's why you see the US which has among the freest systems being the most dysfunctional and by far the most expensive.

 

[ivwshane]

Healthcare service requires skilled professionals and expensive equipment. Those are in short supply, whereas demand for them is very high. By what system is a scarce resource best parceled out to the people who need it?

The judgment of history on that question overwhelmingly favors a free market. Scarce resources aren't magically made more plentiful by passing laws that state they must be free to all.

You don't know your history very well then. I'll refer you to WWII and the limited resources we had that the government confiscated. Health care would be no different.

 

[zinfamous]

Zin: You're a nazi unless you agree with me.

the fuck is this horseshit? Are you this fucking illiterate? please kindly point out where I ever argued such a thing.

Are you one of those idiots that failed out of your simple writing courses because you could never present a tangible argument and instead blamed the "Evil liberal professor" for being "biased" against your unsupported, emotional arguments?

 

[Vic]

Healthcare service requires skilled professionals and expensive equipment. Those are in short supply, whereas demand for them is very high. By what system is a scarce resource best parceled out to the people who need it?

The judgment of history on that question overwhelmingly favors a free market. Scarce resources aren't magically made more plentiful by passing laws that state they must be free to all.

Way to miss the point entirely. Bravo!

 

[UglyCasanova]

Health care has inelastic demand and near total price insensitivity.

That’s completely incorrect, it’s just as it stands now we aren’t exposed to the real price. If we were people would be much more sensitive to it.

 

[fskimospy]

That’s completely incorrect, it’s just as it stands now we aren’t exposed to the real price. If we were people would be much more sensitive to it.

Wrong.

https://www.nber.org/papers/w21632

The switch caused a spending reduction between 11.79%-13.80% of total firm-wide health spending. We decompose this spending reduction into the components of (i) consumer price shopping (ii) quantity reductions and (iii) quantity substitutions, finding that spending reductions are entirely due to outright reductions in quantity. We find no evidence of consumers learning to price shop after two years in high-deductible coverage.

The difference when people were exposed to the real price is they simply stopped getting health care, not that they shopped around for cheaper prices.

People will NEVER be exposed to the real price of health care because no system can possibly work that way as it would be insanely inefficient. Imagine if everyone had to save up $100,000 and just let it sit there in case they got cancer or else they would die. Considering how much of our overall health expenditures come from these non-elective, high cost procedures, it's a fairy tale.

See what I mean about the free market being a failure in health care? Will you admit this?

 

[UglyCasanova]

Them not purchasing it when exposed to the real price is the free market at work. That’s not the market failing, that’s the market doing what it does best. They weighed the cost / benefit and made a decision. That’s currently not happening and is one of the primary reasons our healthcare system is so high. People gettin healthcare when maybe they shouldn’t because there’s no price signals for them to weigh.

Edit I should add the shopping and competition would be the free market doing what it does best I misspoke, but my point still stands. If healthcare providers were upfront on their prices and the consumer exposed the market would work. Having the government pay everything insulates the consumer and thus we are left with overuse and high costs like we have now

 

[fskimospy]

Them not purchasing it when exposed to the real price is the free market at work. That’s not the market failing, that’s the market doing what it does best. They weighed the cost / benefit and made a decision. That’s currently not happening and is one of the primary reasons our healthcare system is so high. People gettin healthcare when maybe they shouldn’t because there’s no price signals for them to weigh.

Wrong again.

Whe decisions not to utilize health care are driven by the extreme expense and inefficiency of our free market health care. People gamble with their health because the free market has failed so badly here that routine treatments people know they should get are avoided. You shouldn't need a study to tell you this, the stories are everywhere about people skipping medication they need because they can't afford it, etc. They're gambling with their health based on ignorance of the consequences.

https://www.ajmc.com/newsroom/healthcare-spending-driven-by-price-not-utilization-ijamai-study-

The authors write that an emphasis must be put on constraining drug prices and administrative costs if the United States desires to bring healthcare spending more in line with other countries, which not only spend less but have better health outcomes. The report found that the differences were driven mainly by prices for labor and goods, including physician and hospital services, pharmaceuticals, diagnostic tests, devices, and administrative costs.

However, the US population does not appear to use care more than other countries, which is why healthcare reform efforts aimed at utilization alone are unlikely to have an impact on spending, the authors said.

Repeat after me - the free market has been a failure. It's time to admit that even if it's ideologically inconvenient.

 

[UglyCasanova]

See my edit above we were typing at the same time. When there is no pricing mechanism more is always better.

 

[fskimospy]

See my edit above we were typing at the same time. When there is no pricing mechanism more is always better.

There is no evidence of over-use, only of high prices. See my link above, the US uses health care at comparable rates to other countries that are much less expensive. There is also basically no system on earth where the government pays everything and the research shows that modest copays are excellent at controlling unnecessary usage. (along with physician controls of those things)

This is the free market two-step you're trying to engage in:

1) due to lack of government regulation health care is extremely expensive in the US as compared to other countries.
2) to solve this problem we should make consumers bear more of the inflated health care costs the free market has produced. When they simply elect no longer to get the medical care they need that means the free market has reduced costs!!

Wouldn't the more logical step be to implement the government regulations other countries have which have successfully controlled costs, then we can just have the same care for less money?

 

[Vic]

That’s completely incorrect, it’s just as it stands now we aren’t exposed to the real price. If we were people would be much more sensitive to it.

You're saying he's 'completely incorrect' while agreeing with him? That's typical of you.

But anyway, there is only 1 way for healthcare demand to be elastic. Which is the point I was trying to make to Atreus, which is that we deny healthcare to those who can't afford it, such that they die from their ailments or injuries, as the case may be. Atreus' Christ would approve, I'm sure.

 

[jackstar7]

You're saying he's 'completely incorrect' while agreeing with him? That's typical of you.

But anyway, there is only 1 way for healthcare demand to be elastic. Which is the point I was trying to make to Atreus, which is that we deny healthcare to those who can't afford it, such that they die from their ailments or injuries, as the case may be. Atreus' Christ would approve, I'm sure.

Except for pregnant women! They must be ushered into the baby farms!

 

[Atreus21]

You don't know your history very well then. I'll refer you to WWII and the limited resources we had that the government confiscated. Health care would be no different.

Really. So then what should we not nationalize by this logic?

 

[jackstar7]

Really. So then what should we not nationalize by this logic?

Women's reproductive systems.

 

[Atreus21]

The judgment of the real world, today, on that question in regards to health care overwhelmingly favors strong government regulation. Health care has inelastic demand and near total price insensitivity. When you just got run over by a bus you aren't in a position to shop around for the cheapest emergency room nearby, for example.

Do you mean to tell me that if you were hit by a bus and were presented an option of an emergency room visit for $1000 and another for $10,000, you wouldn't care?

The features of the health care system that make a free market not work don't magically go away by pretending they don't exist. There's been a real life experiment on the best ways to go about provisioning health care and it's been going on for decades. The free market lost. That's why you see the US which has among the freest systems being the most dysfunctional and by far the most expensive.

Explain to me how the US has free-market healthcare right now. Because it's not at all apparent to me.

 

[jackstar7]

Do you mean to tell me that if you were hit by a bus and were presented an option of an emergency room visit for $1000 and another for $10,000, you wouldn't care?

You expect to be conscious? You also think one will be 1/10th of another?

Libertopian fantasy, ahoy!