Jimmy Carter: "Give Hamas a chance"

[Aisengard]

I also agree with giving Hamas a chance to behave. If they cut their rhetoric of "destroying Israel" and stop funding terrorism, then yes, they can have whatever money they 'collected' in tax revenues. But I think a country has a responsibility to its people to protect them, therefore Israel is indeed doing the right thing when they deny the Palestinian government their "due".

Palestinians want a country, not just some undeveloped desert with no hope of improvement? Demand that your government stop threatening neighbor countries who are a lot more powerful and a lot more influential than you are. Israel has a responsibility to protect and better its own people, not the people who threaten to destroy them.

 

[wetech]

Originally posted by: arsbanned

Originally posted by: jlmadyson
We could give them a chance. Although any chance of them turning away from violence is more than likely slim to none.

I think they've been placed in a position where they will have to change. The election results are probably the best outcome we could have hoped for. Paradoxical, perhaps.
I don't think we need Jimmy Carter telling us to "give them a chance" though. As smart as he is, he should learn to keep his mouth shut sometimes, IMO.

In a way you're right. While I'm not exactly thrilled that they won the election, it might be a good opportunity for the peace process to move forward. The reason is simple if you think about it. When Hamas was simply a movement within Palestine, they had no permanent infrastructure. Now, if Hamas, the government, starts sending people to attack Israel, Israel has every right to defend itself against an attacking country. Now all of a sudden Hamas has tons to lose: power plants, factories, government buildings, etc... It doesn't pay to piss off your much stronger neighbor.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: jlmadyson

Originally posted by: Aimster
Israel has frozen palestine's money.

This means that the palestinians will not get their paycheck.

Israel has no right to freeze any country's money, yet they do.

These are workers who have been working for the govt. since before Hamas was even elected.

So we are not giving them a chance and as a result hurting the population.
Wonderful.

What money is it that Israel has frozen? Also has Hamas rejected their stance on the destruction of Israel?

The transfer of funds to the new govt.

53 million which will be used to pay for 100,000+ govt. employees.
60,000 of them security police

Israel has no right to freeze any funds, yet they do.
Just like they like to control when people can leave their homes, etc.

If they love Palestine so much that they want to control them they should just join the two countries together.. they are part of the same land. Israel = country on a land called Palestine.

Hamas's position is absurd. One one hand they want Israel to cease to exist and on the other hand they want Israel to pay them money. How can you expect payment from someone who does not exist in your opinion. If I were in Israels position I would say screw you.

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
It's rather hard to claim to want to plant democracies in the ME and immediately punish a people because they picked who you didn't like.

I think Carter is right for that reason. If Hamas continues to be an active threat, then that's one thing. Do I believe they will change? Not really, but there have been times when some quite nasty people have come about when faced with the task of governance.

You could always look at "Giving Hamas a chance" as give them enough rope.

Besides, history has shown how an abused people react. Look at Germany after WWI which was directly responsible for WWII. It's not that the Palestinians have that capability, but they have long memories. Even now it may be possible to rescue the situation, but if you start starving kids, forget it.

I agree. Hamas should be given a limited time to prove that they are capable of being part of the international community. If doing so requires them to renounce violence and recognize Israel then they should be prepared to do that. The alternative scenario is not pretty. More violence and more retributions and I do believe that ultimately the Palestinians will pay a higher price than anyone else.

From what I've read in the news Hamas has done a better job of looking after people at grass root level. So it does appear that they can do good.

It is their money.

Israel cannot steal their money.

Israel controls Palestine. Maybe that is why Palestinians hate Israel so much?

Another country controls their country that doesn't even exist yet.

I think we should get out of America because it's really Indians' land. :roll:

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Aisengard
I also agree with giving Hamas a chance to behave. If they cut their rhetoric of "destroying Israel" and stop funding terrorism, then yes, they can have whatever money they 'collected' in tax revenues. But I think a country has a responsibility to its people to protect them, therefore Israel is indeed doing the right thing when they deny the Palestinian government their "due".

Palestinians want a country, not just some undeveloped desert with no hope of improvement? Demand that your government stop threatening neighbor countries who are a lot more powerful and a lot more influential than you are. Israel has a responsibility to protect and better its own people, not the people who threaten to destroy them.

Well I think the election proved the "palestinians" want a country but first by destroying Israel. They effectively demanded that their government destroy Israel by voting Hamas in.

 

[irwincur]

Poor Israel. They are in a bind. They are so so itching to exterminate the Palestinians but that have that Holocaust albatross around their necks.

The same goes for their Muslim brothers.

You know, the ones that have for centuries attempted just that. The ones that have abandoned them and kicked them out of their own lands. The ones that massacred them in Jordan and Syria.

The current situaton for the Palastinians is technically the best they have ever experienced. However, their peaceful and loving Muslim brothers continue to feed them lies in order to use them as cannon fodder in a proxy war that they do not have the balls to fight themselves.


Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Israel has frozen palestine's money.

This means that the palestinians will not get their paycheck.

Israel has no right to freeze any country's money, yet they do.

These are workers who have been working for the govt. since before Hamas was even elected.

So we are not giving them a chance and as a result hurting the population.
Wonderful.

Are you really that ignorant? You really expect Israel to give money to a country run by a terrorist group bent on destroying them? Give me a break.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: jlmadyson

Originally posted by: Aimster
Israel has frozen palestine's money.

This means that the palestinians will not get their paycheck.

Israel has no right to freeze any country's money, yet they do.

These are workers who have been working for the govt. since before Hamas was even elected.

So we are not giving them a chance and as a result hurting the population.
Wonderful.

What money is it that Israel has frozen? Also has Hamas rejected their stance on the destruction of Israel?

The transfer of funds to the new govt.

53 million which will be used to pay for 100,000+ govt. employees.
60,000 of them security police

Israel has no right to freeze any funds, yet they do.
Just like they like to control when people can leave their homes, etc.

If they love Palestine so much that they want to control them they should just join the two countries together.. they are part of the same land. Israel = country on a land called Palestine.

And who lived in Israel before the Palestinians? Jews.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: jlmadyson

Originally posted by: Aimster
Israel has frozen palestine's money.

This means that the palestinians will not get their paycheck.

Israel has no right to freeze any country's money, yet they do.

These are workers who have been working for the govt. since before Hamas was even elected.

So we are not giving them a chance and as a result hurting the population.
Wonderful.

What money is it that Israel has frozen? Also has Hamas rejected their stance on the destruction of Israel?

The transfer of funds to the new govt.

53 million which will be used to pay for 100,000+ govt. employees.
60,000 of them security police

Israel has no right to freeze any funds, yet they do.
Just like they like to control when people can leave their homes, etc.

If they love Palestine so much that they want to control them they should just join the two countries together.. they are part of the same land. Israel = country on a land called Palestine.

Hamas's position is absurd. One one hand they want Israel to cease to exist and on the other hand they want Israel to pay them money. How can you expect payment from someone who does not exist in your opinion. If I were in Israels position I would say screw you.

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
It's rather hard to claim to want to plant democracies in the ME and immediately punish a people because they picked who you didn't like.

I think Carter is right for that reason. If Hamas continues to be an active threat, then that's one thing. Do I believe they will change? Not really, but there have been times when some quite nasty people have come about when faced with the task of governance.

You could always look at "Giving Hamas a chance" as give them enough rope.

Besides, history has shown how an abused people react. Look at Germany after WWI which was directly responsible for WWII. It's not that the Palestinians have that capability, but they have long memories. Even now it may be possible to rescue the situation, but if you start starving kids, forget it.

I agree. Hamas should be given a limited time to prove that they are capable of being part of the international community. If doing so requires them to renounce violence and recognize Israel then they should be prepared to do that. The alternative scenario is not pretty. More violence and more retributions and I do believe that ultimately the Palestinians will pay a higher price than anyone else.

From what I've read in the news Hamas has done a better job of looking after people at grass root level. So it does appear that they can do good.

It is their money.

Israel cannot steal their money.

Israel controls Palestine. Maybe that is why Palestinians hate Israel so much?

Another country controls their country that doesn't even exist yet.

I think we should get out of America because it's really Indians' land. :roll:

That made no sense at all.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: jlmadyson

Originally posted by: Aimster
Israel has frozen palestine's money.

This means that the palestinians will not get their paycheck.

Israel has no right to freeze any country's money, yet they do.

These are workers who have been working for the govt. since before Hamas was even elected.

So we are not giving them a chance and as a result hurting the population.
Wonderful.

What money is it that Israel has frozen? Also has Hamas rejected their stance on the destruction of Israel?

The transfer of funds to the new govt.

53 million which will be used to pay for 100,000+ govt. employees.
60,000 of them security police

Israel has no right to freeze any funds, yet they do.
Just like they like to control when people can leave their homes, etc.

If they love Palestine so much that they want to control them they should just join the two countries together.. they are part of the same land. Israel = country on a land called Palestine.

And who lived in Israel before the Palestinians? Jews.

How far back are you trying to go?

Jews came before Muslims

Palestinians lived there.

Israel is a country established on the land called Palestine.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: jlmadyson

Originally posted by: Aimster
Israel has frozen palestine's money.

This means that the palestinians will not get their paycheck.

Israel has no right to freeze any country's money, yet they do.

These are workers who have been working for the govt. since before Hamas was even elected.

So we are not giving them a chance and as a result hurting the population.
Wonderful.

What money is it that Israel has frozen? Also has Hamas rejected their stance on the destruction of Israel?

The transfer of funds to the new govt.

53 million which will be used to pay for 100,000+ govt. employees.
60,000 of them security police

Israel has no right to freeze any funds, yet they do.
Just like they like to control when people can leave their homes, etc.

If they love Palestine so much that they want to control them they should just join the two countries together.. they are part of the same land. Israel = country on a land called Palestine.

And who lived in Israel before the Palestinians? Jews.

How far back are you trying to go?

Jews came before Muslims

Palestinians lived there.

Israel is a country established on the land called Palestine.

Where do you propose you put the Jews? All your Arab bretheren kicked them out of their countries or slaughtered them. Israel was formed so Jews could have a country and identity.

 

[techs]

As usual our most wrongly maligned former President is correct.
If you look at history many peacemakers were former terrorists and sworn enemies of those they made peace with.
Menacham Begin was a terrorist who made peace with Egypt.
Anwar Sadat was the sworn enemy of Israel and he made peace with them.
Nixon was the most rabidly anti-communist President we had yet he opened up relations with China.
In fact, Hamas is the only group capable of making a peace with Israel. If they don't come on board their would be no chance for peace.
So I say give them a chance. I don't think they will take it, at least not for many years.
Heck, even the IRA made peace in Ireland.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Trente

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Poor Israel. They are in a bind. They are so so itching to exterminate the Palestinians but that have that Holocaust albatross around their necks.

I've had enough of you! randomly clicking on threads, posting those witty responses of yours trying to impress everyone with your insight, while contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion. :thumbsdown:

And you, on the other hand, are convince, no doubt, that you are not so dull as to miss any real connection.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Poor Israel. They are in a bind. They are so so itching to exterminate the Palestinians but that have that Holocaust albatross around their necks.

LOL :thumbsup:

I gotta say Moonbeam, alot of your posts truly impress me. You got a whole kinda American
Confucius thing going on

 

[palehorse]

so if Hitler's Reich comes to power in Europe again, we should just give them the benefit of the doubt and a second chance?!

ya...right.

Screw Carter and his ignorant feel-good agenda. This same mentality puts killers, child molestors, and rapists back on our streets every day. This is the same screwed up mentality that kept us from stomping out Saddam in '91, and this is the same screwed up mentality that will eventually lead to the downfall of democracy in the US and elsewhere when the panzy-assed liberals who believe in it somehow finagle control of the governments.

i cant believe that ANYONE would agree with Carter on this... f'n ignorance is no excuse, and I'm surrounded by it! what does that say about me!?

bah.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Tangerines
"We don't negotiate with terrorists. We put them out of business." - Scott McClellan

lol, is Osama out of business yet?

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Poor Israel. They are in a bind. They are so so itching to exterminate the Palestinians but that have that Holocaust albatross around their necks.

LOL :thumbsup:

I gotta say Moonbeam, alot of your posts truly impress me. You got a whole kinda American
Confucius thing going on

If only we were all pro-Islamist and anti-Israeli, then we'd all be model US citizens, eh Earl?

 

[outriding]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
so if Hitler's Reich comes to power in Europe again, we should just give them the benefit of the doubt and a second chance?!

ya...right.

Screw Carter and his ignorant feel-good agenda. This same mentality puts killers, child molestors, and rapists back on our streets every day. This is the same screwed up mentality that kept us from stomping out Saddam in '91, and this is the same screwed up mentality that will eventually lead to the downfall of democracy in the US and elsewhere when the panzy-assed liberals who believe in it somehow finagle control of the governments.

i cant believe that ANYONE would agree with Carter on this... f'n ignorance is no excuse, and I'm surrounded by it! what does that say about me!?

bah.

So like Bush 41 = Carter ?

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Trente

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Poor Israel. They are in a bind. They are so so itching to exterminate the Palestinians but that have that Holocaust albatross around their necks.

I've had enough of you! randomly clicking on threads, posting those witty responses of yours trying to impress everyone with your insight, while contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion. :thumbsdown:

And you, on the other hand, are convince, no doubt, that you are not so dull as to miss any real connection.

Dude, the fact that they have not started to wipe out the Palestineans is in itself impressive. Just look at human history.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Poor Israel. They are in a bind. They are so so itching to exterminate the Palestinians but that have that Holocaust albatross around their necks.

LOL :thumbsup:

I gotta say Moonbeam, alot of your posts truly impress me. You got a whole kinda American
Confucius thing going on

You do know that Confucious was a conservative redneck according to our standards right?

I thought not.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: NuclearNed
Hamas is recognized by many (most?) governments as a terrorist organization. Why should anyone give them a second chance? They have a proven track record of violence and intimidation. Carter thinks they are going to change their tactics just because they now have a mandate? I would even argue that their mandate gives them the authority to "stay the course."

Clue -- Like it or not, they are the elected Palestinian government. Regardless of their history, the world now has to deal with and judge them by what they do them on that basis. Anything less would give those who support them, and those who may consider themselves neutral, a reason to protest any action we take as biased against all Islamic people.

Jimmy Carter is a tool and loves to continuously remind people of that fact.

You should only wish you were as intelligent, ethical and humane as Jimmy Carter.

 

[Trente]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: jlmadyson

Originally posted by: Aimster
Israel has frozen palestine's money.

This means that the palestinians will not get their paycheck.

Israel has no right to freeze any country's money, yet they do.

These are workers who have been working for the govt. since before Hamas was even elected.

So we are not giving them a chance and as a result hurting the population.
Wonderful.

What money is it that Israel has frozen? Also has Hamas rejected their stance on the destruction of Israel?

The transfer of funds to the new govt.

53 million which will be used to pay for 100,000+ govt. employees.
60,000 of them security police

Israel has no right to freeze any funds, yet they do.
Just like they like to control when people can leave their homes, etc.

If they love Palestine so much that they want to control them they should just join the two countries together.. they are part of the same land. Israel = country on a land called Palestine.

Hamas's position is absurd. One one hand they want Israel to cease to exist and on the other hand they want Israel to pay them money. How can you expect payment from someone who does not exist in your opinion. If I were in Israels position I would say screw you.

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
It's rather hard to claim to want to plant democracies in the ME and immediately punish a people because they picked who you didn't like.

I think Carter is right for that reason. If Hamas continues to be an active threat, then that's one thing. Do I believe they will change? Not really, but there have been times when some quite nasty people have come about when faced with the task of governance.

You could always look at "Giving Hamas a chance" as give them enough rope.

Besides, history has shown how an abused people react. Look at Germany after WWI which was directly responsible for WWII. It's not that the Palestinians have that capability, but they have long memories. Even now it may be possible to rescue the situation, but if you start starving kids, forget it.

I agree. Hamas should be given a limited time to prove that they are capable of being part of the international community. If doing so requires them to renounce violence and recognize Israel then they should be prepared to do that. The alternative scenario is not pretty. More violence and more retributions and I do believe that ultimately the Palestinians will pay a higher price than anyone else.

From what I've read in the news Hamas has done a better job of looking after people at grass root level. So it does appear that they can do good.

It is their money.

Israel cannot steal their money.

Israel controls Palestine. Maybe that is why Palestinians hate Israel so much?

Another country controls their country that doesn't even exist yet.

Did you know that the PA owes the Israeli electric company 220 million NIS?

That's 47 million USD right there...

Link

When a suicide bomber is training for his deadly mission, he is using Israeli made electricity to provide light for the room in which he is filmed before leaving. How absurd is that?

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: raildogg
If only we were all pro-Islamist and anti-Israeli, then we'd all be model US citizens, eh Earl?

I'm not anti-Israeli, your saying that because I don't think Islam is evil??? I'll sit down and have supper with anyone. My world is not as black and white as yours is all.

Originally posted by: Proletariat
You do know that Confucious was a conservative redneck according to our standards right?

I thought not.

Nope I didn't know that, and I'm happy to learn it, I was just talking about the way Moonbeam writes and the way some Confucious sayings are written
Alot of times while reading some of your posts, I have thought to myself how does he relate to Che as a hero figure? yes, this is probably more ignorance on my part

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: NuclearNed
my first P&N post...

CNN


Hamas is recognized by many (most?) governments as a terrorist organization. Why should anyone give them a second chance? They have a proven track record of violence and intimidation. Carter thinks they are going to change their tactics just because they now have a mandate? I would even argue that their mandate gives them the authority to "stay the course."

Jimmy Carter is a tool and loves to continuously remind people of that fact.

How is Jimmy Carter a tool? He's risked his life multiple times to help people in need in some of the worst parts of the globle. He's accomplished more for humanity than most people can even dream of.

He's one of the world greatest people, ever.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: NuclearNed
my first P&N post...

CNN


Hamas is recognized by many (most?) governments as a terrorist organization. Why should anyone give them a second chance? They have a proven track record of violence and intimidation. Carter thinks they are going to change their tactics just because they now have a mandate? I would even argue that their mandate gives them the authority to "stay the course."

Jimmy Carter is a tool and loves to continuously remind people of that fact.

How is Jimmy Carter a tool? He's risked his life multiple times to help people in need in some of the worst parts of the globle. He's accomplished more for humanity than most people can even dream of.

He's one of the world greatest people, ever.

are we even talking about the same guy here? bah... Jimmy Carter is nothing more than a white Jesse Jackson: always pokin his head in where it doesnt belong and screwing things up.

The man is useless.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: NuclearNed
my first P&N post...

CNN


Hamas is recognized by many (most?) governments as a terrorist organization. Why should anyone give them a second chance? They have a proven track record of violence and intimidation. Carter thinks they are going to change their tactics just because they now have a mandate? I would even argue that their mandate gives them the authority to "stay the course."

Jimmy Carter is a tool and loves to continuously remind people of that fact.

How is Jimmy Carter a tool? He's risked his life multiple times to help people in need in some of the worst parts of the globle. He's accomplished more for humanity than most people can even dream of.

He's one of the world greatest people, ever.

are we even talking about the same guy here? bah... Jimmy Carter is nothing more than a white Jesse Jackson: always pokin his head in where it doesnt belong and screwing things up.

The man is useless.

Screwing what things up? If by screwing up you mean dedicating his entire life helping desperate people in need...