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Jenny McCarthy Takes To Twitter and Gets Pwnd. Hard.

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That's a terrible analogy. Your body can react differently to different things. If you give multiple vaccines at the same time and there is a bad reaction (which does happen to a percentage of people), you have no way of knowing which of the vaccines caused the reaction, so you don't know which one to avoid (or use a different compound) for next time.

Generally that's not a big deal for most, but it can be a big deal and I don't have any problem with people who want to space things out, as long as they still get the vaccines.

There is no downside to spacing out the vaccines so they don't all come at the same time, other than the kid getting shots multiple days instead of all at once and be done with it.

I once had a vast number of vaccines in a short time (foreign travel plus work requirements coinciding) and I'm still suspicious its why I felt crap for ages afterwards.

But I think there is a downside to spacing vaccines out, and its that on a large scale it increases the risk of people not getting all the vaccinations they are supposed to. The more you make that the norm, the higher the number of non-vaccinated people in a population.
 
I'm not convinced that vaccines have no downside.

I do, all the same, think the known upside completely outweighs the slight possibility of problems.
The trouble is I suppose that as the most horrible health problems that used to be normal, recede from living memory, people's standards rise and the level of possible 'risk' they can tolerate falls. People forget what it used to be like and start worrying about "21st century problems".

The other problem is that science doesn't really know the true cause of autism, so its just human nature to grab a dubious explanation and fixate on it. Its horrible to suffer from something (whether an illness or an unexplained accident) and have no explanation as to why it happened (for which reason I really hope the relatives of those on that vanished plane eventually at least find what happened to them, even if its bad news).
 
I'm not convinced that vaccines have no downside.

I do, all the same, think the known upside completely outweighs the slight possibility of problems.
The trouble is I suppose that as the most horrible health problems that used to be normal, recede from living memory, people's standards rise and the level of possible 'risk' they can tolerate falls. People forget what it used to be like and start worrying about "21st century problems".

The other problem is that science doesn't really know the true cause of autism, so its just human nature to grab a dubious explanation and fixate on it. Its horrible to suffer from something (whether an illness or an unexplained accident) and have no explanation as to why it happened (for which reason I really hope the relatives of those on that vanished plane eventually at least find what happened to them, even if its bad news).

There is a lot of truth in that. Go to any cemetery that has been around for longer than 100 years and look at the huge number of graves of people that died between birth and the teen years. Childhood and childhood diseases were a gauntlet to be survived before modern medicine and vaccination changed the equation. That is one of the things that skewed the statistics on making it to old age prior to the 20th century. If you made it to adulthood you had a pretty good chance of surviving into your late 60's and even early 70's.
 
I tried, I really tried finding something funny on that link but I failed. What a bunch of pathetic beings.

They are giving this pathetic woman WAY too much attention as well.......
 
And moreover this whole space them out thing is bunk as hell for another reason. On a typical day any person might face a hundred immune 'challenges' as in a something that can/does provoke an immune response. These people fail to grasp how the immune system works on even a simple level. They have no idea how incredible and complex it is and how fast it works to terminate anything foreign at all. And how a couple vaccines in one day are like just another day at the office for your immune system.

they probably do it because well, the kids spends the next day with a fever and being a cranky asshole, and its more bearable when they get less shots at once


all the articles I have read about the downsides on spreading vaccines out come down to 'you wont end up getting them' or 'they might give you the wrong one'

no science based reasoning there
 
Ignoring the craziness which you have to do with all hot women, Jenny has definitely surpassed Pam Anderson and Angelina Jolie at this time.
 
What did AJ do that was crazy?

Adopt kids? I dont care about that.

Blood around the neck
Kissing brother in an oddly inappropriate manner
the odd weight fluctuation
I have to mention the Father stuff they each are screwed up
other than that she is not too bad, I'll give her credit she does do good charity work without being too much of a beggar or guilt-er.
 
And moreover this whole space them out thing is bunk as hell for another reason. On a typical day any person might face a hundred immune 'challenges' as in a something that can/does provoke an immune response. These people fail to grasp how the immune system works on even a simple level. They have no idea how incredible and complex it is and how fast it works to terminate anything foreign at all. And how a couple vaccines in one day are like just another day at the office for your immune system.
Well, to be fair, vaccines typically do have adjuvants added, so they punch above their weight when it comes to provoking an immune response. But even that heightened response is nothing compared to, say, a minor cold, and it's certainly nowhere near the immune response that's required to fight off any of those diseases that you're getting vaccinated against in the first place.

I'm not convinced that vaccines have no downside.
I think that most people are intellectually honest enough to admit that there are downsides. Very, very unlikely, but potentially severe downsides, at that.

But as you mentioned, the upsides are much greater.
 
Whoa! Score one for math and science! I was discussing this with a coworker; one who at least believed that vaccines don't cause autism. But, then, she started with rant #2: "giving so many of them in such a short amount of time... you can't tell me... my child..." To which I responded that they've studied the effects of giving so many within such a short time, and there's no correlation. Her response tied together both "rare" and "I know other people..." What a huge crack in the foundation for me to work logic into. "So, you're saying that if only 1 in a million has this type of reaction, that they may not be able to find it in the statistics. BUT, you're also saying that you know other people whose kids have suffered from the same problems shortly after being vaccinated. That indicates the opposite - that it's not rare. Let's say it's one or two in a thousand. Do you really think that if they study 20000 kids; 10000 get the vaccinations all at once, the other 10000 doesn't, that if 20 kids have some sort of problem in the vaccination group, and none, or at most 1 or 2 have a problem in the non-vaccination group, that they're not going to notice a 10 fold increase?? It's been said time and time again, 'we see that problem happening. The onset is around that age. In the vaccinated group, it's 2% of the kids who have that problem; and in the non-vaccinated group, it's 2% of the kids who have that problem. In other words, there's no difference in the rate of that problem between kids who get all their vaccinations at once, and kids who don't.' THEY HAVE STUDIED THIS!

She looked at me like she just woke up.
 
Well, to be fair, vaccines typically do have adjuvants added, so they punch above their weight when it comes to provoking an immune response. But even that heightened response is nothing compared to, say, a minor cold, and it's certainly nowhere near the immune response that's required to fight off any of those diseases that you're getting vaccinated against in the first place.


Exactly.

I like to remind people that tetanus is still a leading cause of death for small children in third world countries.
 
Wow. It's amazing what people will believe, huh?

Vaccine-induced herd immunity is a myth.

Naturally-acquired immunity lasts for a lifetime, but "herd immunity" MAY only occur if people contract the infections naturally.

Problem: Vaccine-induced immunity only lasts from 2 to 10 years. The tetanus vaccine, we were told, would last a lifetime. But 30 years later, we discover that it actually lasts no more than 10 years. This is why they silently began to give boosters for most vaccines like chickenpox and MMR.

Bigger Problem: The boosters last for 2 years or less, so most people lose their immune protection within 2 to 10 years of being vaccinated, leaving us well short of the touted 95% number needed for "herd immunity".

Translation: At least 50% or more of the population has been unprotected for decades. We have all lived for at least 30 to 40 years with 50% or less of the population having vaccine protection. Herd immunity has not existed in this country for many decades and no resurgent epidemics have occurred.

As as far as contaminant organisms, look at the Simian Virus 40 as discussed in the book DR MARY`S MONKEY. The Federal government has gone to enormous lengths to cover up the fact that SV-40, a major contaminant of the polio vaccine until 1963 and a known carcinogenic virus, was being passed on to the next generation of those exposed to the vaccine. Every generation from now on will be infected with this known carcinogenic virus and its association with many cancers – including mesothelioma, medulloblastoma, ependymoma, meningioma, astrocytoma, oligodendroglioma, pituitary adenoma, glioblastoma, osteosarcomas, non-Hodgkins lymphoma, papillary thyroid carcinomas, and anaplastic thyroid carcinomas.

Despite the powerful scientific evidence that this has infected at least a hundred million people worldwide, it took over 40 years to prove this.

This is but one example.

In terms of the "the anti-vaccine full-on crazy", Baxter International Inc. has been caught shipping live avian flu viruses mixed with vaccine material to medical distributors in 18 countries in spite of the fact that in a Biosafety level 3 lab, this "accident" would be impossible. This, after patenting the Swine Flu Vaccine a year earlier.

If you find nothing suspicious about this, you are a far more trusting person than I.

The largest of the pharmaceutical-vaccine manufacturers are also providing much of the money and serving on the boards of foundations (The Ford Foundation, Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, and Rockefeller series of foundation) that influence legislation and government actions through the World Health Organization, among others. This has given them access to absolute power at all levels.

Because of this as well as their control of the media, it serves us well to continue to look at alternate sources of information and seek the truth.

I hope you now have adequate reason for further examination of "the facts."
 
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*snip*

Obvious created account to troll is obvious


First off clearly you are trolling all of us, and secondly before you post piles of pseudoscience garbage how about you post some actual sources, you know like peer reviewed research to back up your claims.

Like this one, tetanus is a leading killer of small children in many parts of africa.
Tetanus – in particular, the neonatal form – remains a significant public health problem in non-industrialized countries with 59,000 newborns worldwide dying in 2008 as a result of neonatal tetanus
Source:Black, RE; Cousens, S; Johnson, HL; Lawn, JE; Rudan, I; Bassani, DG; Jha, P; Campbell, H; Walker, CF; Cibulskis, R; Eisele, T; Liu, L; Mathers, C; Child Health Epidemiology Reference Group of WHO and, UNICEF (2010 Jun 5). "Global, regional, and national causes of child mortality in 2008: a systematic analysis.". Lancet 375 (9730): 1969–87.

Or this one showing how tetanus deaths are declining due to vaccination:

As of 2010 it caused about 61,000 deaths down from 272,000 in 1990.

Source: Lozano, R (Dec 15, 2012). "Global and regional mortality from 235 causes of death for 20 age groups in 1990 and 2010: a systematic analysis for the Global Burden of Disease Study 2010.". Lancet 380 (9859): 2095–128
 
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Wow. It's amazing what people will believe, huh?

Vaccine-induced herd immunity is a myth.

Naturally-acquired immunity lasts for a lifetime, but "herd immunity" MAY only occur if people contract the infections naturally.

Problem: Vaccine-induced immunity only lasts from 2 to 10 years. The tetanus vaccine, we were told, would last a lifetime. But 30 years later, we discover that it actually lasts no more than 10 years. This is why they silently began to give boosters for most vaccines like chickenpox and MMR.

Bigger Problem: The boosters last for 2 years or less, so most people lose their immune protection within 2 to 10 years of being vaccinated, leaving us well short of the touted 95% number needed for "herd immunity".

Translation: At least 50% or more of the population has been unprotected for decades. We have all lived for at least 30 to 40 years with 50% or less of the population having vaccine protection. Herd immunity has not existed in this country for many decades and no resurgent epidemics have occurred.

As as far as contaminant organisms, look at the Simian Virus 40 as discussed in the book DR MARY`S MONKEY. The Federal government has gone to enormous lengths to cover up the fact that SV-40, a major contaminant of the polio vaccine until 1963 and a known carcinogenic virus, was being passed on to the next generation of those exposed to the vaccine. Every generation from now on will be infected with this known carcinogenic virus and its association with many cancers – including mesothelioma, medulloblastoma, ependymoma, meningioma, astrocytoma, oligodendroglioma, pituitary adenoma, glioblastoma, osteosarcomas, non-Hodgkins lymphoma, papillary thyroid carcinomas, and anaplastic thyroid carcinomas.

Despite the powerful scientific evidence that this has infected at least a hundred million people worldwide, it took over 40 years to prove this.

This is but one example.

In terms of the "the anti-vaccine full-on crazy", Baxter International Inc. has been caught shipping live avian flu viruses mixed with vaccine material to medical distributors in 18 countries in spite of the fact that in a Biosafety level 3 lab, this "accident" would be impossible. This, after patenting the Swine Flu Vaccine a year earlier.

If you find nothing suspicious about this, you are a far more trusting person than I.

The largest of the pharmaceutical-vaccine manufacturers are also providing much of the money and serving on the boards of foundations (The Ford Foundation, Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, and Rockefeller series of foundation) that influence legislation and government actions through the World Health Organization, among others. This has given them access to absolute power at all levels.

Because of this as well as their control of the media, it serves us well to continue to look at alternate sources of information and seek the truth.

I hope you now have adequate reason for further examination of "the facts."

Since I'm pretty sure it'll be at least as reputable as any source you'd suggest:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/another-antivaccine-zombie-meme-sv40-and-cancer-and-polio-oh-my/
 
I don't get the "she's still hot" responses. Too much plastic for my tastes. But I'm married to a naturally beautiful woman. Before you go asking for pics, they are on this site somewhere.
 
Whoa! Score one for math and science! I was discussing this with a coworker; one who at least believed that vaccines don't cause autism. But, then, she started with rant #2: "giving so many of them in such a short amount of time... you can't tell me... my child..." To which I responded that they've studied the effects of giving so many within such a short time, and there's no correlation. Her response tied together both "rare" and "I know other people..." What a huge crack in the foundation for me to work logic into. "So, you're saying that if only 1 in a million has this type of reaction, that they may not be able to find it in the statistics. BUT, you're also saying that you know other people whose kids have suffered from the same problems shortly after being vaccinated. That indicates the opposite - that it's not rare. Let's say it's one or two in a thousand. Do you really think that if they study 20000 kids; 10000 get the vaccinations all at once, the other 10000 doesn't, that if 20 kids have some sort of problem in the vaccination group, and none, or at most 1 or 2 have a problem in the non-vaccination group, that they're not going to notice a 10 fold increase?? It's been said time and time again, 'we see that problem happening. The onset is around that age. In the vaccinated group, it's 2% of the kids who have that problem; and in the non-vaccinated group, it's 2% of the kids who have that problem. In other words, there's no difference in the rate of that problem between kids who get all their vaccinations at once, and kids who don't.' THEY HAVE STUDIED THIS!

She looked at me like she just woke up.

Thought control. Disturbing thread.
 
TraumaRN: Wow, dude, don't get out much, huh? I'll take your lack of manners and your name-calling like a good human being and stick to the point.

You want me to back up my "piles of pseudoscience garbage"? Fair enough.

When it comes to SV40, darkswordsman17's link made for good reading. There is info there I wasn't fully aware of, but in the end, it all comes down to one thing: The Jury's still out. After reading a number of papers/ studies, both pro and con, the one that stood out is also the most comprehensive I've come across and can be found here.

Simian Virus 40 Infection of Humans
Robert L. Garcea, Michael J. Imperiale
American Society For Microbiology, Journal of Virology May 2003 vol. 77 no. 9 5039-5045

There's a shit-ton of info there, both pro and con, let me know what you think. To sum it up, here is the last paragraph:

"At this time, some members of the jury remain undecided about a role for SV40 in human disease. Seroepidemiology and a basic understanding of virus biology in humans are essential pieces missing from the puzzle. Perhaps we expect SV40 to follow the “rules” for other oncogenic viruses such as human papillomavirus and Epstein-Barr virus. Rather, SV40 may be generating novel rules, leading the way as it has before into new paradigms of virus biology and pathogenesis."

Not so easily dismissed is the FACT that our good buddies at Baxter Int'l nearly caused a global pandemic. All conspiracies and intentionality aside, this is a FACT as reported in numerous sources, but here's a Bloomberg article for you.

And if you want to argue about Herd Immunity, there is case after case after case of outbreaks in vaccinated populations. Here's a few to start:


  1. http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1202865
  2. http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm55d330a1.htm
  3. http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5507a2.htm
  4. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1861205
  5. http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/204/suppl_1/S559.full.pdf+html
  6. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1884314
  7. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=3618578
  8. http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM198703263161303
  9. http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000476.htm
  10. http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000359.htm
  11. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1956577/
  12. http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2012/03/13/cid.cis287
  13. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15918913
  14. http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/6/5/00-0512_article.htm
  15. http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00049244.htm
  16. http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa021662
  17. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19593254
In the end, it all breaks down to belief.


I believe that the # of vaccines and the adjutants in them are an unnecessary risk, period. I believe herd immunity is bullshit and I believe that Big Pharm is no different than Big Oil or Big (insert word here). It's all about Money/Power.



But that's just my opinion, y'know?


Oh and BTW, you used the word "obvious" twice in your first sentence (obviously)!
 
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