Jeff Sessions has just resigned

[interchange]

Republicans defending this move is incredibly short-sighted. If he wanted Sessions out, there are myriad ways to do it without compromising the investigation, e.g. keeping Rosenstein in charge of it regardless of naming a different acting AG, or even getting rid of him but having Congressional oversight for at least choosing the next person in charge, etc.

But it can't be acceptable to anyone that someone have the power to appoint the person in charge of investigating them. This is universal regardless of whether someone abuses that power. Conflicts of interest don't imply someone is acting badly, merely that they have motivation to do so. In this case, the conflict can be readily resolved or at least put in check.

 

[Thebobo]

Called it.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Republicans defending this move is incredibly short-sighted. If he wanted Sessions out, there are myriad ways to do it without compromising the investigation, e.g. keeping Rosenstein in charge of it regardless of naming a different acting AG, or even getting rid of him but having Congressional oversight for at least choosing the next person in charge, etc.

But it can't be acceptable to anyone that someone have the power to appoint the person in charge of investigating them. This is universal regardless of whether someone abuses that power. Conflicts of interest don't imply someone is acting badly, merely that they have motivation to do so. In this case, the conflict can be readily resolved or at least put in check.

In what passes for "the real world", the only check is the Dems going after Trump intelligently. Trump commits impeachable offenses daily but like the Mayor who is also the judge, police, and prosecution, he can do almost anything he pleases within the Executive Branch with complete immunity.

Ben Franklin argued for that power, the removal of an "obnoxious" Executive by impeachment because it provides citizens a means of control better than the alternative, which I will say is not something lawful.

The Dems have the means to force the issue in winning the House as the Reps will have nothing but pain in the Senate while Reps in the House reap the whirlwind.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Republicans defending this move is incredibly short-sighted. If he wanted Sessions out, there are myriad ways to do it without compromising the investigation, e.g. keeping Rosenstein in charge of it regardless of naming a different acting AG, or even getting rid of him but having Congressional oversight for at least choosing the next person in charge, etc.

But it can't be acceptable to anyone that someone have the power to appoint the person in charge of investigating them. This is universal regardless of whether someone abuses that power. Conflicts of interest don't imply someone is acting badly, merely that they have motivation to do so. In this case, the conflict can be readily resolved or at least put in check.

They don’t care Republicans rule with their feels even though they make fun of others for doing it. They don’t care about that’s either.

 

[interchange]

In what passes for "the real world", the only check is the Dems going after Trump intelligently. Trump commits impeachable offenses daily but like the Mayor who is also the judge, police, and prosecution, he can do almost anything he pleases within the Executive Branch with complete immunity.

Ben Franklin argued for that power, the removal of an "obnoxious" Executive by impeachment because it provides citizens a means of control better than the alternative, which I will say is not something lawful.

The Dems have the means to force the issue in winning the House as the Reps will have nothing but pain in the Senate while Reps in the House reap the whirlwind.

House Democrats certainly can work to uncover a bunch of things and force a whole lot of legal tests. Even if they can't act overtly, they can disrupt the narrative. Of course, that requires likely abandoning the hope of also legislating and provoking a constitutional crisis. I don't think we're going to make headway while trying to play more than one hand. I think quite a few Republicans had been attempting that and ended up moving the goalposts for holding Trump accountable continuously. But Trump is a bully. Bullies test boundaries and feast on those who don't enforce the limits they set. Handling him is simple. Make it concrete and crystal clear what's not ok to do and what the consequences are, and follow through on those consequences. Inconsistent, harsh, and vague threats with no action is the worst possible strategy. All that does is impose guilt, but a funny thing about guilt.... People who are guilty rarely feel it.

They don’t care Republicans rule by their feels even though they make fun of others for doing it. They don’t care about that’s either.

We have a difference here. Where you see Republicans being ruled by their feelings I see humanity being ruled by feelings. But it's a whole lot easier to think you're ruled by reason when it's clear that reason aligns with your feelings.

In this case, it is not about Trump. It's not about partisanship. It's not about whether the investigation has merit or whether Trump has corrupted it. These are truly irrelevant to what makes this action require a legislative or judicial check. That is so because he is willfully introducing a huge conflict of interest and ability to influence an investigation of himself where such conflict can be readily avoided or mitigated. All those other things don't mean diddly for that basic truth. They do play into our analysis for the motivations of his actions, but such an analysis cannnot matter if the action goes unchecked.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Of course, that requires likely abandoning the hope of also legislating and provoking a constitutional crisis.

We are already at a constitutional crisis. Firing Sessions without a guarantee that the investigation would continue unimpeded caused that. This is blatant obstruction of justice, and multiple people of both parties have said on numerous occasions that doing this exact thing would be. Now the only question is do our politicians still care about The Constitution?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Handling him is simple. Make it concrete and crystal clear what's not ok to do and what the consequences are, and follow through on those consequences.

Let's go to another time and person. You and a group of people in the government go to Stalin and say: You aren't doing the right things so change. Here are the consequences that will happen if you don't listen to us. Well that actually happened.

Here's the man who found that handling someone isn't that simple.

Leon Trotsky. Here were the consequences-

"Trotsky was assassinated in Mexico City by Ramón Mercader, a Spanish-born NKVD agent. On 20 August 1940, Mercader attacked Trotsky with an ice axe and Trotsky died the next day in a hospital. Mercader acted upon instruction from Stalin and was nearly beaten to death by Trotsky's bodyguards, and spent the next 20 years in a Mexican prison for the murder. Stalin presented Mercader with an Order of Lenin in absentia.[4]"

The lesson here isn't about Trump murdering people, but that "Do this or we will stop you" requires effective overwhelming political force, and that the actual application requires even more, or the "handler" of consequences can find themselves in the politically equivalent situation of Trotsky.

Inconsistent, harsh, and vague threats with no action is the worst possible strategy. All that does is impose guilt, but a funny thing about guilt.... People who are guilty rarely feel it.

That's true, so no threats, or nothing more than necessary. Instead just do the job of oversight.

Of course, that requires likely abandoning the hope of also legislating and provoking a constitutional crisis.

The Constitutional crisis is here. Yesterday Trump issued this ultimatum to Democrats to the effect of "I will work with you to get good things done IF you don't investigate me. If you do, then I'll watch the nation burn before I lift a finger". Protect me or else.

If that isn't a true Constitutional crisis, the threat of blackmail to cow the House, there is no such thing.

In a comic way, this represents the mentality of Trump

 

[zinfamous]

One would think that if Trump were innocent, he would stop acting like he is guilty of absolutely everything that he is being accused.

 

[Jhhnn]

One would think that if Trump were innocent, he would stop acting like he is guilty of absolutely everything that he is being accused.

Winner!

 

[Muse]

Remember when everyone on the right was up in arms because Peter Strzok expressed negative opinions of Trump in private? Have they been in yet to call for Whittaker to recuse himself due to his comments on the Mueller probe on TV the last year?

Ahh. I’m sure they will be along soon...

... any minute now

Done. But I don't think he will unless he fears the consequences (i.e. for HIMSELF) if he doesn't. His reputation will suffer, if that means anything to him.

 

[cytg111]

Hehe.. whatever is left of the GOP now, they have to move all in in an effort to secure minority rule from here on out, there will not be a return to an even playing field.
Puti is prowd.

 

[cytg111]

Done. But I don't think he will unless he fears the consequences (i.e. for HIMSELF) if he doesn't. His reputation will suffer, if that means anything to him.

Unless Whitaker is moved by someone else I dont think he will be a big problem... History shows us that those who pulls Trumps strings be smart people, Bannon, Putin, maybe Murdoch, Mercer, Koch.. But those who get their strings pulled by Trump himself is maybe not Mensa prospects...

 

[Jhhnn]

Remember when everyone on the right was up in arms because Peter Strzok expressed negative opinions of Trump in private? Have they been in yet to call for Whittaker to recuse himself due to his comments on the Mueller probe on TV the last year?

Ahh. I’m sure they will be along soon...

... any minute now

Blatant hypocrisy? Couldn't be!

 

[SMOGZINN]

Blatant hypocrisy? Couldn't be!

It is not hypocrisy if you said it at least a day before what you said today. Everyone knows that changing your mind when convenient is not hypocrisy. I bet you are one of those people that lets the liberal elitists at Merriam-Webster tell you what words mean!

 

[Viper1j]

I can't wait to see his tax returns.

 

[VRAMdemon]

It's the end of the unchecked, rubberstamped Trump era, but it's also the beginning of cornered, desperate Trump era. I expect the new era to be ugly, outrageous, and discouraging. Donald has never in his life experienced checks & balances. He's not going to take to it kindly. Plus, his re-election campaign starts NOW. I expect there will be plenty of ugly to go around for the next two years.

Trump's barely been able to function with a government that's been on his side and has been doing all it can to support him. Even Now he's going to have to face genuine opposition. Trump will not be able to handle it well. I expect the next two years will be the equivalent of listening to a toddler throw a screaming tantrum.

The President still controls our foreign policy, our courts, the executive branch, and a vast propaganda network.

The House will prevent him from repealing the rest of the ACA and gutting the social safety net further. But it won't do anything at all about the other disasters we've seen so far. Expect the ongoing crisis in Yemen, dismantling of regulatory efforts to stop climate change, taking over the courts with poorly qualified political hacks, using the military for political spectacle, harming immigrant children for sport, etc.

A beast is most dangerous when he's cornered. Trump has always been a master of media distraction. Without discussing the possible damage Trump and the Republicans in this Congress can and possibly will accomplish before the newly elected Congress is seated, we can expect the real ugliness to begin as soon as Trump and his Republican Party start feeling pressure from the various investigations now possible from Democratically chaired committees in the House.

Push will as it always does come to shove. The GOP will rally around their president, and Trump will do as he always does; ramp up the lies, precipitate an expanding series of crises to distract and deflect, and find scapegoats to feed the desperate fears of his base. The facade of a partnership between Trump and the R establishment will need to end. They know the demographics are within 10 years of permanently screwing them up the ass if they can't change the narrative quickly and totally,Trump and his army of wanna-be-Trumps do the Kochs no good in the future, and now they can't do much now.

 

[Jhhnn]

It is not hypocrisy if you said it at least a day before what you said today. Everyone knows that changing your mind when convenient is not hypocrisy. I bet you are one of those people that lets the liberal elitists at Merriam-Webster tell you what words mean!

They didn't change their minds. They engage in compartmentalization & denial, then lash out in anger rather than resolving cognitive dissonance.

Not that they understand a single word of what I just said.

 

[vi edit]

Ahoy! There be a whale sighting? Chris Christie was at White House.

 

[soundforbjt]

Ahoy! There be a whale sighting? Chris Christie was at White House.

Our new AG? His long weight finally paying off...

 

[zinfamous]

Chris Christie angle would be interesting but I doubt it's true. That guy is one vengeful SOB and ever since Trump publicly dumped him, Christie would probably love to be in position to thoroughly wreck the Trump family now, I think. (Just as he did the Kushner family).

Trump is a flaming idiot, but I don't think he's that dumb. For one thing: he's very shrewd and selective when it comes to judging the character of the type of scum that he swims with.

 

[vi edit]

Chris Christie angle would be interesting but I doubt it's true. That guy is one vengeful SOB and ever since Trump publicly dumped him, Christie would probably love to be in position to thoroughly wreck the Trump family now, I think. (Just as he did the Kushner family).

Trump is a flaming idiot, but I don't think he's that dumb. For one thing: he's very shrewd and selective when it comes to judging the character of the type of scum that he swims with.

He could just be doing this as he did to Mitt for SoS job. Basically a humiliate and kiss the ring with no intent of ever offering. Just for the lols.

 

[Thebobo]

Just look at this guy he looks like a Nazi Storm Trooper. Its like you know when you look as someone and you say that guys is a raging asshole. Well...

 

[zinfamous]

He could just be doing this as he did to Mitt for SoS job. Basically a humiliate and kiss the ring with no intent of ever offering. Just for the lols.

Right. That's exactly what I think is going on.

 

[vi edit]

Just look at this guy he looks like a Nazi Storm Trooper. Its like you know when you look as someone and you say that guys is a raging asshole. Well...

He evoked Kingpin from me...

 

[interchange]

The lesson here isn't about Trump murdering people, but that "Do this or we will stop you" requires effective overwhelming political force, and that the actual application requires even more, or the "handler" of consequences can find themselves in the politically equivalent situation of Trotsky.

Limits are useless if you don't have the power to enforce them. Every day we fail to do so abdicates a small bit of power.

That's true, so no threats, or nothing more than necessary. Instead just do the job of oversight.

Sounds great to me. We need to institute the law of cause and effect and make it as predictable as possible. In that way, our consequences don't need to be grand. The little stuff is probably most important. And people should institute consequences within their job description.

The Constitutional crisis is here. Yesterday Trump issued this ultimatum to Democrats to the effect of "I will work with you to get good things done IF you don't investigate me. If you do, then I'll watch the nation burn before I lift a finger". Protect me or else.

If that isn't a true Constitutional crisis, the threat of blackmail to cow the House, there is no such thing.

In a comic way, this represents the mentality of Trump

There would be something different, though, if Democrats decide to test Trump's warning. Don't make a compromise. Provide the necessary oversight and let him and Senate Republicans shut down the system if they choose. Let healthcare, etc., wait until they change that stance or Trump is ousted. I don't think the party will back Trump indefinitely if Democrats grow a spine. I worry more about Trump's international and military power if the fluffers abandon him. The 25th would be the safest way to handle things if Trump starts to think his party is against him.