Jeff Bezo's Amazon shows the True nature of the Rich Liberal

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Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
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Washington state resident here, living in a city next door to Seattle.

This is a new, tacked-on tax on top of existing B&O taxes, plus other taxes Amazon pays to Seattle for construction. So they are saying no to an extra tax, targeted at them -- they'd be paying around 30% of the total revenue generated.

Seattle government really is ultra-leftist: I voted for Clinton, Obama, Clinton but these people are like the rabid Bernie Sanders extremists who hate evil corporations while loving to spend their money. One of the Seattle Council members (who is trying to pass this) led an anti-Amazon rally awhile back, and has made public statements that corporations like it should be taken over by the government and their wealth distributed to "the people." She proudly identifies as a socialist. Elections are between left and even more left.

Seattle government is also on a massive and unsustainable spending spree, fed by the construction boom and huge increases in property taxes. Council staff was bumped up, spending on the homeless was already doubled before trying to add the Amazon tax, and they are wasting millions on feel-good dumbness like spending $2+ million to subsidize a failed bike-sharing program.

So if I did live there I'd be ranting even more about the poor leadership of Seattle, and why they should be spending the money they have more carefully instead of adding more and more taxes.

I see none of our liberal friends have anything to say about above. About how the real world of progressivism is compared to the make believe one of Paul Krugman or some other elite liberal think tank or other out of touch with reality elite liberals living in their isolated affluent paradises
 

IJTSSG

Golden Member
Aug 12, 2014
1,112
274
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Zoning! People owning houses in low density neighborhoods block cities from creating higher density housing because they are more than happy to see housing prices increase.

This is why the new California bill to remove local control over zoning was such a good idea.
Regulations, got it.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,347
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I see none of our liberal friends have anything to say about above. About how the real world of progressivism is compared to the make believe one of Paul Krugman or some other elite liberal think tank or other out of touch with reality elite liberals living in their isolated affluent paradises
Sounds like the conservative ideal. So what is it about any of that that you disagree with except that those 'liberal elites' don't vote Republican?
Threads like these are built on the conservative straw man that the liberal goal is equal outcome, when it's really equal opportunity.
 
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Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
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There are some other interesting progressive experiments going on in Seattle, with predictable results. But that is unlikely to give pause to those who have such great faith in the power of the government to do 'good'! So onward we march in our journey of progress and equality!! Right on!
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
19,887
18,340
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I see none of our liberal friends have anything to say about above. About how the real world of progressivism is compared to the make believe one of Paul Krugman or some other elite liberal think tank or other out of touch with reality elite liberals living in their isolated affluent paradises

I responded actually. I don't believe most progressives want the government to seize the means of production. Those are extremists. Luckily progressive extremists are a far smaller percentage of our movement as a whole compared to right-wing extremists, which are practically the entire Trumpist base.

As far as a failed bike-share program, all things will not succeed. Bike share programs have done well in other cities, it was not insanity to believe it could do well in Seattle, a very bike friendly city. One reason it failed was because there weren't enough stations in a large enough geographical area from what I read. Whatever the case, it was an admirable thing to invest in.

I'd have to read more about Seattle as a whole, but you are taking one nearby resident's view as the entirety of the progressive movement just cause you like what he had to say. One might say you are fucking ridiculous.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
19,887
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There are some other interesting progressive experiments going on in Seattle, with predictable results. But that is unlikely to give pause to those who have such great faith in the power of the government to do 'good'! So onward we march in our journey of progress and equality!! Right on!

What other progressive experiments would you be against? Women's right to vote? Equal pay? Any minimum wage? Any child labor laws? Civil rights for blacks? Any work safety rules? Any environmental regulation?

What would make you happy. A Somalia like libertarian existence, tinged with some American right-wing religious views forced on the population?

Probably.
 

Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
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I'd have to read more about Seattle as a whole, but you are taking one nearby resident's view as the entirety of the progressive movement just cause you like what he had to say. One might say you are fucking ridiculous.

Yes, you are right, they would be justified in saying that I am fucking ridiculous if I were basing my views on Seattle based on one post here.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
19,887
18,340
136
Yes, you are right, they would be justified in saying that I am fucking ridiculous if I were basing my views on Seattle based on one post here.

I didn't say you were taking all your views on Seattle from one post, although you are essentially endorsing it as 100% correct. You are going way further than that, you are quoting it as representing progressiveness as a whole.

Calling it:

the real world of progressivism
 
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Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
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What other progressive experiments would you be against? Women's right to vote? Equal pay? Any minimum wage? Any child labor laws? Civil rights for blacks? Any work safety rules? Any environmental regulation?

In that case, I'd be justified in making the equally absurd claim that abolition of slavery's credit goes to the current Republican party
 

Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
76
I didn't say you were taking all your views on Seattle from one post, although you are essentially endorsing it as 100% correct. You are going way further than that, you are quoting it as representing progressiveness as a whole.

Calling it:

Indeed Seattle IS the real world of progressivism. To be rather crude about it, where the government is in everyone's ass - again with predictable results.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
19,887
18,340
136
Indeed Seattle IS the real world of progressivism. To be rather crude about it, where the government is in everyone's ass - again with predictable results.

Government takeover of companies like Amazon? That's extremist. Nothing of the sort is proposed by the vast majority of left of center folks and progressives in this country.

Amazon not being able to pay 0 in federal taxes? Now that's a standard progressive position on companies like that. Not taking them over.
 

Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
76
Government takeover of companies like Amazon? That's extremist. Nothing of the sort is proposed by the vast majority of left of center folks and progressives in this country.

Amazon not being able to pay 0 in federal taxes? Now that's a standard progressive position on companies like that. Not taking them over.

Again you are just looking at it in a narrow context of Amazon who I care nothing about. I don't know if they pay 0 in federal taxes, maybe they do. I don't know. I am pretty sure they pay a lot in local taxes, not to mention all those people who work there and make big big monies pay their own taxes like property taxes etc. And I definitely did not say that explicit take over of private sector is the goal of progressives.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,680
136
I see none of our liberal friends have anything to say about above. About how the real world of progressivism is compared to the make believe one of Paul Krugman or some other elite liberal think tank or other out of touch with reality elite liberals living in their isolated affluent paradises

Yeh, Seattle is booming & the Rust Belt is still dying slowly. But Seattle is clearly the one who's fucked up. Because reasons & shit.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
19,887
18,340
136
Again you are just looking at it in a narrow context of Amazon who I care nothing about. I don't know if they pay 0 in federal taxes, maybe they do. I don't know. I am pretty sure they pay a lot in local taxes, not to mention all those people who work there and make big big monies pay their own taxes like property taxes etc. And I definitely did not say that explicit take over of private sector is the goal of progressives.

That was the most dramatic point of the guys post you quoted as summarizing the real world of progressives. A Seattle councilwoman who proposes to take over Amazon and redistribute the profits. You should read what you quote better.

And yes, even Trump points out that Amazon pays no federal taxes. Except he's doing it because he hates Bezos, cause Bezos owns the WP. Not because he gives two shits about rich companies paying their fair share of taxes, and ZERO being towards the unfair side.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
71,848
5,856
126
Moon moon moon, I would take Dostoevsky over a peer reviewed study any day of the week. And the way he describes human beings, esp the charge the grand inquisitor lays out, part of which I can link here...a small part..and an even smaller part I can type here...

"I tell you that man has no more tormenting care than to find someone to whom he can hand over as quickly as possible that gift of freedom with which the miserable creature is born."

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/787375-i-tell-you-that-man-has-no-more-tormenting-care

This of course is a human universal condition, but it appears the progressives (who generally do not have much spirituality, not that I have much either) are more prone to it...
Well perhaps it is more that you would claim to take Dostoevsky over science because you are a Russian trained spypos agent trained in the Russian existential tradition, offering as you do, not Dostoevsky's view but that of the Grand Inquisitioner. Here is a quote from Dostoevsky that is a quote from him rather than a literary character:

“It is not the brains that matter most, but that which guides them — the character, the heart, generous qualities, progressive ideas.” F.D.

You have profoundly confused religiosity with spirituality it seems to me as well as the cunning of the G.I. with real love. I tell you that man has no more tormenting care than to find someone to whom he can hand over as quickly as possible that gift of freedom inherent to his being and no greater joy if he manages to retain it. To be or not to be, that is the question. Nice try but freedom is not slavery. In rejecting science on the basis of this nonsensical post that proudly rejects reality you consign yourself to the slavery you pretended to reject.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,908
126
Yeh, Seattle is booming & the Rust Belt is still dying slowly. But Seattle is clearly the one who's fucked up. Because reasons & shit.
Seattle is booming because of Boeing and Amazon, two pillars of American capitalism that demand major concessions to keep jobs in Washington. We’ve already established Bezos is a libertarian, and Boeing is cozy with Trump. So why exactly is Seattle booming?
 

IJTSSG

Golden Member
Aug 12, 2014
1,112
274
136
Seattle is booming because of Boeing and Amazon, two pillars of American capitalism that demand major concessions to keep jobs in Washington. We’ve already established Bezos is a libertarian, and Boeing is cozy with Trump. So why exactly is Seattle booming?
The weather and the really "friendly" homeless population?
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,908
126
The weather and the really "friendly" homeless population?
Spring and summer in Seattle are quite beautiful, and the view of Rainier is spectacular when you can see it...as is the flora of expended needles you find in most of the parks.
 

IJTSSG

Golden Member
Aug 12, 2014
1,112
274
136
Spring and summer in Seattle are quite beautiful, and the view of Rainier is spectacular when you can see it...as is the flora of expended needles you find in most of the parks.
I agree. I'm usually in Redmond a couple times a year and I was stationed in Bangor for a couple of years when I was on active duty. When the weather is nice the scenery is spectacular.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,680
136
Seattle is booming because of Boeing and Amazon, two pillars of American capitalism that demand major concessions to keep jobs in Washington. We’ve already established Bezos is a libertarian, and Boeing is cozy with Trump. So why exactly is Seattle booming?

Or they'll get dumped like the Rust Belt, right?

It's not anything but greed that's driving Boeing to extortion. They're doing great, and so is Amazon-

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-boeing-4q-earnings-20180131-story.html
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,908
126
Or they'll get dumped like the Rust Belt, right?

It's not anything but greed that's driving Boeing to extortion. They're doing great, and so is Amazon-

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-boeing-4q-earnings-20180131-story.html
Why not? The Rust belt thrived during the age of industrialization, and fell into decline as we shifted into a service based economy. Who is to say what will happen once automation and machine learning starts to eliminate white collar service jobs.
 

Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
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Yeh, Seattle is booming & the Rust Belt is still dying slowly. But Seattle is clearly the one who's fucked up. Because reasons & shit.

I am amazed you don't realize the irony when you use the term booming in purely capitalistic, extreme right wing sense!!! Booming for who? Those who are at the very top of Darwin's methodology - not the fit, but the very fittest. Isn't that supposed to be the very antithesis of progressivism?
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
31,951
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I am amazed you don't realize the irony when you use the term booming in purely capitalistic, extreme right wing sense!!! Booming for who? Those who are at the very top of Darwin's methodology - not the fit, but the very fittest. Isn't that supposed to be the very antithesis of progressivism?

Only in the mind of right wing idiots and their boogeyman view of progressives.

As has been said (in this thread I believe), the left is all about equal opportunity not equal property.
 

Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
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Only in the mind of right wing idiots and their boogeyman view of progressives.

As has been said (in this thread I believe), the left is all about equal opportunity not equal property.

So is the movement about $15 min wage about equal opportunity, not equal property??? Do you guys even know what you are talking about?

Anyhow, the bottom line is that, as I've said before, if left to its own devices, the left will run this country into the ground - as they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.