Jeb Bush on Climate Change. WTF???

[boomerang]

You need to be offended more often to understand

Ooh, that's so deep.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Ooh, that's so deep.

My fingers are tired

 

[Moonbeam]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-25/india-heatwave-kills-more-than-430/6496314

 

[Bitek]

Well this thread went downhill rather quickly.

I think this more extreme weather events, and the ongoing drought in California, I think it's going to be harder and harder for pols to just brush off the CC issue.

Whether everyone understand the science perfectly or not, if people begin to get panicked, the issue will demand attention

 

[rudeguy]

Well this thread went downhill rather quickly.

I think this more extreme weather events, and the ongoing drought in California, I think it's going to be harder and harder for pols to just brush off the CC issue.

Whether everyone understand the science perfectly or not, if people begin to get panicked, the issue will demand attention

It already has attention.

Now what?


The vast majority of skeptics don't say there is 100% not a problem. We say we are sick of being lied to about it, sick of the made up data and sick of people profiting off of forcing others to sacrifice. We're sick of the dramacrats telling us the polar ice caps will melt in a matter of years, then they don't. We're sick of every single weather event being blamed on global climate warming change.

Remember the HUGE blizzard that shut down NYC? The one the mayor got on TV and blamed global climate warming change for causing? You know...the blizzard that didn't exist? Until the dramacrats knock that shit off I'm going to continue to treat them like the Mayan apocalypse people.

 

[Genx87]

I was disappointed that it hasn't happened under the Obama administration. The Bush admin torturers, war criminals and war profiteers should have been tried, convicted and sentenced to life in prison long ago.

The gravity of their crimes, and the fact that they already committed them, is ONLY reason Jeb's idiocy isn't worse... at least yet. No rational American citizen should consider giving him the chance to prove it, one way or the other. :thumbsdown:

Now why would Obama toss Bush in jail when he does the same or worse? Where is your song for the President under Obama becoming judge and executioner for citizens?

 

[rudeguy]

Now why would Obama toss Bush in jail when he does the same or worse? Where is your song for the President under Obama becoming judge and executioner for citizens?

in their eyes, talking about Dear Leader like that is punishable by death. You are allying yourself with the enemy!

Turn off your cell phone, stay under cover where the drones can't see you can shelter in place.

 

[Genx87]

in their eyes, talking about Dear Leader like that is punishable by death. You are allying yourself with the enemy!

Turn off your cell phone, stay under cover where the drones can't see you can shelter in place.

I find it pathetic so many on the left that were so vocal under the Bush admin has largely gone silent under Obama. When the NSA is as intrusive as ever, the drone war used more than ever(remember killing Muslims creates terrorists?), Gitmo remains open, the police state as big as I can remember, and the worst thing to happen to the republic was a president having kill lists of American citizens and then acting on it without trial or even an indictment is going on right now. Not even Bush would touch that one. Remember the protests about Bush creating a legal framework for torture? Where are the protests for Obama doing the same for killing Americans without trial?

The thing is I think what Obama has done scares them. But not for the right reasons. They are truely terrified of a Jeb Bush having the power to kill anyone deemed "enemy of the state". So it isnt they are terrified of the state having that power, just which party or side possesses said power. Truely pathetic short sighted thinking. Because like it or not. A Jeb Bush will be back in power at some point in the future.

 

[Jaskalas]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-25/india-heatwave-kills-more-than-430/6496314

Inhofe, is that you?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I find it pathetic so many on the left that were so vocal under the Bush admin has largely gone silent under Obama. When the NSA is as intrusive as ever, the drone war used more than ever(remember killing Muslims creates terrorists?), Gitmo remains open, the police state as big as I can remember, and the worst thing to happen to the republic was a president having kill lists of American citizens and then acting on it without trial or even an indictment is going on right now. Not even Bush would touch that one. Remember the protests about Bush creating a legal framework for torture? Where are the protests for Obama doing the same for killing Americans without trial?

The thing is I think what Obama has done scares them. But not for the right reasons. They are truely terrified of a Jeb Bush having the power to kill anyone deemed "enemy of the state". So it isnt they are terrified of the state having that power, just which party or side possesses said power. Truely pathetic short sighted thinking. Because like it or not. A Jeb Bush will be back in power at some point in the future.

Precedent has been established and Democrats are apparently OK with it...at least until a Republican president comes along.

 

[JimKiler]

It already has attention.

Now what?


The vast majority of skeptics don't say there is 100% not a problem. We say we are sick of being lied to about it, sick of the made up data and sick of people profiting off of forcing others to sacrifice. We're sick of the dramacrats telling us the polar ice caps will melt in a matter of years, then they don't. We're sick of every single weather event being blamed on global climate warming change.

Remember the HUGE blizzard that shut down NYC? The one the mayor got on TV and blamed global climate warming change for causing? You know...the blizzard that didn't exist? Until the dramacrats knock that shit off I'm going to continue to treat them like the Mayan apocalypse people.

Agreed, the threat of world catastrophe to happen in the next 10 years has been stated by the crazies since the 70's. Too bad they drowned out the normal environmentalists.

But What does the OP want us to do that will stop climate change? Fixing the US is not going to stop China, Inda, etc who pollute way more than us.

What is this about 10 giant cargo ships that pollute more than all automobiles in the world? Seems like we need to go after the worst polluters before we force everyone to drive electric cars. But for the record i am fine with the raising of fuel efficiency standards and we know sometimes you need to force change.

 

[dank69]

Here, let me provide a counterpoint:

1. Global warming is a lie, therefore do nothing.
2. Even if it's true scientists don't know because of a newspaper story about global cooling, therefore do nothing.
3. Even if scientists do know it's happening we can't say man is causing it, therefore do nothing.
4. Even if we can say man is causing it we can't stop it, therefore do nothing.
5. Even if we can stop it China and India won't go along, therefore do nothing.
6. Even if China and India will go along it's too expensive, therefore do nothing.
7. Even if it's cost effective compared to the alternative fuck you, you're a commie.

I agree with him. It is not a fact what percentage is man made and what is natural. And even then what are you going to do about it when China etc... are not going to change squat. Not much we can do as a country.

Agreed, the threat of world catastrophe to happen in the next 10 years has been stated by the crazies since the 70's. Too bad they drowned out the normal environmentalists.

But What does the OP want us to do that will stop climate change? Fixing the US is not going to stop China, Inda, etc who pollute way more than us.

What is this about 10 giant cargo ships that pollute more than all automobiles in the world? Seems like we need to go after the worst polluters before we force everyone to drive electric cars. But for the record i am fine with the raising of fuel efficiency standards and we know sometimes you need to force change.

Love seeing you guys go through the rungs of the standard ladder.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Fixing the US is not going to stop China, Inda, etc who pollute way more than us.

Is fixing part of a problem better than fixing none of a problem?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Now why would Obama toss Bush in jail when he does the same or worse? Where is your song for the President under Obama becoming judge and executioner for citizens?

That's why I call him Harvecrite. :awe:

I was disappointed that it hasn't happened under the Obama administration. The Bush admin torturers, war criminals and war profiteers should have been tried, convicted and sentenced to life in prison long ago.

The gravity of their crimes, and the fact that they already committed them, is ONLY reason Jeb's idiocy isn't worse... at least yet. No rational American citizen should consider giving him the chance to prove it, one way or the other. :thumbsdown:

Oh, so Obama hitting US citizens with missiles with no trials or due process doesn't even register on your radar?

 

[glenn1]

Is fixing part of a problem better than fixing none of a problem?

Depends if the solution to the problem both meets cost/benefit tests and doesn't itself create other problems. Even if you stipulate manmade climate change as real then we should consider the solutions holistically and not just "do something" just because. Who knows, in the end the best solution may be to do "nothing" about manmade climate change and let technology solutions mature and only implement them at that point.

At a minimum it would be nice if the backers of climate change action didn't pretend that "we must act now" would be nothing but pure positive. The idea that moving away from fossil fuels at this point would be value-creating is wishful thinking and is certainly not going to create lots of net new jobs. Until some key technologies like improved batteries/energy storage come along then sustainable energy sources will always be a luxury good.

 

[desy]

If they subsidized alternatives like they subsidize fossil fuels
We may already be there

 

[dank69]

That's why I call him Harvecrite. :awe:



Oh, so Obama hitting US citizens with missiles with no trials or due process doesn't even register on your radar?

Wasn't only one of the citizens an intended target?

 

[glenn1]

If they subsidized alternatives like they subsidize fossil fuels
We may already be there

This falls into the "careful what you wish for" category as alternatives already receive their own subsidies without which they might not be economically viable at all. Plus they also share some with the fossil fuels industry like the manufacturing tax deduction.

Also, until you solve some of the basic technology issues like storage and distribution, it won't really matter how many subsidies we put into alternatives since many wouldn't meet the basic user requirements without some backup from fossil fuel sources. Which means we end with doubly redundant infrastructure, making us even worse off than before.

 

[rudeguy]

Wasn't only one of the citizens an intended target?

exactly how many US citizens should the president be allowed to murder?

 

[Genx87]

Wasn't only one of the citizens an intended target?

Are we to take comfort in knowing Obama has only killed one American on purpose as far as we know? At the end of the day the number doesn't matter. It is the fact he did it without any real consequence that is the issue. Going forward every president including a Jeb Bush type will have the ability to have his own secret kill list of "enemies of the state". Lists that will surely have American citizens on it.

In little over a decade we have had our executive craft legal frameworks\justifications for torture and denying American citizens trial before execution. Are you ok with that even if only a small number of people were affected by these policies?

 

[fskimospy]

exactly how many US citizens should the president be allowed to murder?

Exactly how many US citizens should the president be allowed to torture?

The answer for both is the same, yet people frequently come down on one side or the other depending on who is doing it.

 

[dank69]

exactly how many US citizens should the president be allowed to murder?

Just trying to get some rails on that particular troll post.

As for that one US "citizen," he didn't qualify as a citizen IMO. Of course, my opinion is worth just as much as yours. I'm sure you and ICF are losing a LOT of sleep at night knowing that poor guy was whacked.

 

[realibrad]

Depends if the solution to the problem both meets cost/benefit tests and doesn't itself create other problems. Even if you stipulate manmade climate change as real then we should consider the solutions holistically and not just "do something" just because. Who knows, in the end the best solution may be to do "nothing" about manmade climate change and let technology solutions mature and only implement them at that point.

At a minimum it would be nice if the backers of climate change action didn't pretend that "we must act now" would be nothing but pure positive. The idea that moving away from fossil fuels at this point would be value-creating is wishful thinking and is certainly not going to create lots of net new jobs. Until some key technologies like improved batteries/energy storage come along then sustainable energy sources will always be a luxury good.

If we don't start now, there are large trade offs. I know you are a free market guy like me, but, you have to look at the way the market would work here.

We can work on the problem now, or wait until later. If we wait until later, there are likely things that will happen that cannot be undone. Market adjustments could mean huge losses of live, or living standard. When a market is over capitalized, you get resources diverted to it. When the market adjusts, some resources are wasted, and some productivity is lost. In this case, the lost resources would very likely lead to a loss of life or living standard.

There is more research to be done to understand the trade-offs, but there will be trade offs. A small investment now can give much larger compounded benefits over the long run. Inaction will lead to the problem being compounded, and its possible more resources would need to be used to solve this problem.

The problem is, many will not admit there is even a potential even though the market has. The evidence for the market seeing a problem, is companies spending money to see how to deal with the changing climate.

 

[fskimospy]

Just trying to get some rails on that particular troll post.

As for that one US "citizen," he didn't qualify as a citizen IMO. Of course, my opinion is worth just as much as yours. I'm sure you and ICF are losing a LOT of sleep at night knowing that poor guy was whacked.

I think it's a very dangerous standard where the president gets to decide that someone no longer counts as a citizen and no longer gets the protections of the Constitution. This wasn't a case where the guy was killed in the heat of battle, it was a calculated decision to execute him without a trial.

EDIT: Anyway though, Jeb Bush's views on climate change are still incoherent. He's trying to ingratiate himself to the Republican primary electorate, while still remaining viable in the general election. This is hard because Republican activists are HUGELY out of step with the rest of America on climate change, therefore he ends up saying seemingly contradictory and/or insane things. Sadly, that's what he needs to do to get elected.

 

[dank69]

Are we to take comfort in knowing Obama has only killed one American on purpose as far as we know? At the end of the day the number doesn't matter. It is the fact he did it without any real consequence that is the issue. Going forward every president including a Jeb Bush type will have the ability to have his own secret kill list of "enemies of the state". Lists that will surely have American citizens on it.

In little over a decade we have had our executive craft legal frameworks\justifications for torture and denying American citizens trial before execution. Are you ok with that even if only a small number of people were affected by these policies?

I just don't understand the faux outrage about this guy because as I have stated I think calling him a US citizen, even though technically correct, is really stretching the word citizen past its useful definition.