Japanese cars: Boring, safe -- and selling

[N8Magic]

Also, last time I checked, the CRV is outselling the Liberty so far in 2002:

63,121 vs 60,399

And the Highlander is outselling the Envoy:

46,229 vs 36,080

And the Sequoia is neck and neck with the Yukon:

29,059 vs 29,781

Wow, what a landslide victory for the Japanese automakers.

Around here, the only vehicles that I even see covered in dirt are Ford/Chevy/Dodge pickups with off-roading packages, older Jeep Cherokees, C/K Blazers, Ramchargers, Xterras, and Wranglers

... and you just rhymed off the list of SUV's that continue to sell, year after year, after year, after year... There was a reason the Cherokee was around so long with out a major redesign... it worked well, and continued to sell.

Every other SUV I see on the road is almost always my lover and span clean, has the wheels polished, with the usual "baby on board" sticker. Not many people are willing to do "off roading" in their $30,000 - $50,000 SUV's no matter if it's foreign or domestic...think about it...

Yukons, Suburbans, etc...75% of them are piloted by 30-40 year old women around these parts

... and that's part of the problem. These people would be better served by AWD Transport Montanas or AWD Caravans than they are by their current SUVs. These people are sheep, following the flock and buying into the current SUV hype. I'd hardly call them informed buyers, and all they do is inflate the import sales figures. (no offense )

 

[NFS4]

Wow, what a landslide victory for the Japanese automakers. :roll:

Just showing you that "toys" sell

... and you just rhymed off the list of SUV's that continue to sell, year after year, after year, after year... There was a reason the Cherokee was around so long with out a major redesign... it worked well, and continued to sell.

I listed 5 SUV's, of those 5, 3 are DEAD:

C/K Blazer -- long been dead
Cherokee -- dead...Liberty isn't exactly a worthy replacement in mountain goat terms IMHO.
Ramcharger -- long been dead

... and that's part of the problem. These people would be better served by AWD Transport Montanas or AWD Caravans than they are by their current SUVs. These people are sheep, following the flock and buying into the current SUV hype. I'd hardly call them informed buyers, and all they do is inflate the import sales figures. (no offense )

Not that we need to get into this again, but people can buy whatever the hell they want

 

[ElFenix]

actually the liberty offroards better than the cherokee did. or so MT has said.

and still, most of these are minivans or station wagons, as they are not trucks. and yes, it does matter. its to keep the bourgeoisie thinking that no, they are not like their parents or older siblings, they are something original, driving "SUVs". marketing hype solely. netburst architecture doesn't actually make internet surfing or mp3 playing faster, and these vehicles are not SUVs.

 

[RossMAN]

I was tempted to trade in my 1 month old Honda Accord SE today for a 2002 Honda Accord EX which was selling for $18something no leather, no V6 but damn an EX for $18something?

But I resisted since I'd probably be declined for the loan

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
actually the liberty offroards better than the cherokee did. or so MT has said.

Maybe not

http://bigcherokee.com/ifssfa.html

and still, most of these are minivans or station wagons, as they are not trucks. and yes, it does matter. its to keep the bourgeoisie thinking that no, they are not like their parents or older siblings, they are something original, driving "SUVs". marketing hype solely. netburst architecture doesn't actually make internet surfing or mp3 playing faster, and these vehicles are not SUVs.

Does the Explorer having an IRS make it less of an SUV? I don't think so. The Grand Cherokee and Liberty are unibody based vehicles...so what. Each "SUV" is designed to achieve a certain target and the Japanese SUV's are hitting the mark so I don't see how you can put them down...

 

[Ultima]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

What, I asked him, is the emotion that drives the purchase decision of a Toyota or Honda buyer?

Fear," he replied. Fear of losing resale value. Fear of a breakdown on the road. Toyota and Honda buyers believe their cars will keep running and hold onto decent resale value. Even if the exterior designs are ho-hum.

So here's my take: I've had 2 foreign cars & 1 domestic truck for 4 years now & it's just the right mix, My cars are perfect for commuting, my 3/4 ton van is perfect for hauling things like the 3/4 tons of tile, grout & mortar that I did last week, and for duty as a commuter stand in if one of my others needs repairs. None of the foreign vehicles work well as a hauler yet... I've looked @ the tilt cab UD (Nissan) & Isuzu's but insurance (my insurance company couldn't even find the models on their databases) & maintenance would be a headache (& they'd be overkill for my needs, can't see commuting in a tilt cab for some reason)

I'll need another vehicle in a few years for my oldest daughter when she's old enough to drive, & it'll be a foreign marque unless detroit really get's it's act together quickly.

You have 3 cars.. why do you "need" another one for your daughter, and why at 16? Who really *needs* a car at 16? Just about everyone I knew then didn't, and those that had them just used them for fun and mischeif
Call me jealous or whatever but I don't see the need there, it's attitudes like that that put more dumb drivers on the road (most 16 year olds) and clog highways, and drivers are more irresponsible when they're not paying for it. My cousin got a Sunfire for her birthday paid with insurance and even gas is paid, and she's one of the worst drivers I've ever seen. Drives 90mph on rural roads, acts like a b!tch, generally is one.. okay I don't like my cousin that much
Anyways, make her get around on a bike or take the bus and learn a bit about life, I really doubt she needs her own car. That goes for the rest of you, too

 

[EvilYoda]

w00t, my little instigating statement worked. I claim all the credit for this commotion. ^_^

 

[N8Magic]

Maybe not

http://bigcherokee.com/ifssfa.html

You have to be kidding me.

You're taking a stock Liberty and putting it up against a heavily modfied Cherokee? Stock for stock, the Liberty does nearly as well. On a stock Cherokee, those live axles wouldn't be flexing even 20% as much as the trucks in the picture.

Does the Explorer having an IRS make it less of an SUV? I don't think so. The Grand Cherokee and Liberty are unibody based vehicles...so what. Each "SUV" is designed to achieve a certain target and the Japanese SUV's are hitting the mark so I don't see how you can put them down...

Yes, it lessens the hardcore off-road appeal of the Explorer, but to your average off-roader going to a hunt camp or whatever, it doesn't make THAT much difference. The only reason I rip the Japanese toys is because of their limited ground clearance (hello step rails!

) and wimpy engines that would struggle to pull a jet ski on a trailer.

 

[N8Magic]

Originally posted by: EvilYoda
w00t, my little instigating statement worked. I claim all the credit for this commotion. ^_^

Nicely done.

I must say though, as much as I argue with NFS4, I have to give him props for his debating skills... he's pretty good.

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by: Colt45
The only good imports come from europe.

poop on honda/toyota/nissan/etc/etc.

And the only good domestics come from japan.

 

[BL0RT]

look if you want a car like ride in your suv (just about all japaneese suvs) get a freaking minivan or perhaps a CAR. if you want an suv get it because you enjoy trucklike ride and handling, or you need to tow stuff. excuse me but i have to go beat some ricer civic in a race with my blazer.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Lucky

Originally posted by: Colt45
The only good imports come from europe.

poop on honda/toyota/nissan/etc/etc.

And the only good domestics come from japan.

AHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHA GOOD ONE

You have to be kidding me.

You're taking a stock Liberty and putting it up against a heavily modfied Cherokee? Stock for stock, the Liberty does nearly as well. On a stock Cherokee, those live axles wouldn't be flexing even 20% as much as the trucks in the picture.

I said the same thing when I saw the pic, but even a stock cherokee would do much better than the Liberty. Why do you think the hardcore Jeep fans piss on the Liberty?

Yes, it lessens the hardcore off-road appeal of the Explorer, but to your average off-roader going to a hunt camp or whatever, it doesn't make THAT much difference. The only reason I rip the Japanese toys is because of their limited ground clearance (hello step rails! ) and wimpy engines that would struggle to pull a jet ski on a trailer.

First off, who off-roads in an Explorer anyway? Even before it got the IRS, even Subaru was touting that their Outback wagon had more ground clearance

The 4-Runner and Sequioa each have more ground clearance than their competitors. The Sequoia has 10.6 inches of ground clearance.

 

[Lucky]

and that's part of the problem. These people would be better served by AWD Transport Montanas or AWD Caravans than they are by their current SUVs. These people are sheep, following the flock and buying into the current SUV hype. I'd hardly call them informed buyers, and all they do is inflate the import sales figures. (no offense

People are "sheep" for not wanting to drive around in a POS ugly domestic minivan? :Q I think not!

 

[CocaCola5]

There are probably only a few dozen body chassis from which ALL newcars in the world are based on. Its not suprising cars seems boring, even with different metal skins/molding, lets face it you can only do so much to differentiate them.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Lucky

Originally posted by: Colt45
The only good imports come from europe.

poop on honda/toyota/nissan/etc/etc.

And the only good domestics come from japan.

AHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHA GOOD ONE

You have to be kidding me.

You're taking a stock Liberty and putting it up against a heavily modfied Cherokee? Stock for stock, the Liberty does nearly as well. On a stock Cherokee, those live axles wouldn't be flexing even 20% as much as the trucks in the picture.

I said the same thing when I saw the pic, but even a stock cherokee would do much better than the Liberty. Why do you think the hardcore Jeep fans piss on the Liberty?

Yes, it lessens the hardcore off-road appeal of the Explorer, but to your average off-roader going to a hunt camp or whatever, it doesn't make THAT much difference. The only reason I rip the Japanese toys is because of their limited ground clearance (hello step rails! ) and wimpy engines that would struggle to pull a jet ski on a trailer.

The 4-Runner and Sequioa each have more ground clearance than their competitors. The Sequoia has 10.6 inches of ground clearance.

they piss on liberty because they're closed minded and refuse to give it a fair shake. just like linux nuts and windows or windows nuts and linux or nvidia nuts and ati or whatnot. same thing.

the explorer started life as a truck. the crv started life as a civic. the pilot started life as a minivan. the grand cherokee is a vehicle with truck drive train. the highlander started life as a camry.

 

[NFS4]

they piss on liberty because they're closed minded and refuse to give it a fair shake. just like linux nuts and windows or windows nuts and linux or nvidia nuts and ati or whatnot. same thing.

Sorta like the close-minded guy that refuses to give Japanese SUV's a fair shake?

Also, and why do you think that Ford went to an IRS for the Explorer?? Two reasons actually:

#1) People complained about the truckish ride and skiddish behaviour over bumps/potholes
#2) To make room for the third row seat

Auto makers give the people what they want...

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: NFS4

they piss on liberty because they're closed minded and refuse to give it a fair shake. just like linux nuts and windows or windows nuts and linux or nvidia nuts and ati or whatnot. same thing.

Sorta like the close-minded guy that refuses to give Japanese SUV's a fair shake?

and who would that be?

 

[PsychoAndy]

ah japanese. pearl harbor didnt work out, so they got us on the mdx, crv, highlander, pilot, rav4, camry, accord, maxima, civic, corolla, rx300, and sequoia.

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by: PsychoAndy
ah japanese. pearl harbor didnt work out, so they got us on the mdx, crv, highlander, pilot, rav4, camry, accord, maxima, civic, corolla, rx300, and sequoia.

good thing too or else we wouldnt have any alternatives of our POS domestics!

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

I'd be willing to bet that the Envoy could be negotiated down to below $32,500

GM couldn't dream of moving Enovy's at that price . . . even 0% financing has accompanied highly discounted Envoys. While Acura dealers would laugh in your face if you attempted to extract a discount on an MDX. "Truck-like ride" has appeal if you are hauling hay and towing a tractor. But ad nauseam SUVs in America haul 2 year-olds and tow jet skis. I don't understand the challenge to NFS4 delivering a clear sentiment: American consumers think foreign vehicles in essentially every category are more attractive, more fuel efficient, and more reliable.

The SUV has no purpose other than to sell. Porsche didn't crap up the Cayenne b/c 911s tow poorly. They were influenced by Lincoln, Cadillac, Lexus, MB, and BMW having demonstrated the willingness of consumers to part with $50K+ for car-like trucks or truck-like cars.

Jingoist dogma has done far more to prop up US automakers than matcing the innovation or execution of VW, Toyota, and BMW.

 

[johneetrash]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82
poop on anything that cant do this

heey my friend runs that site. good stuff

 

[ScottyB]

I love my explorer. It is usually dirty as well, of course I live in the country so I actually use its features.

 

[bizmark]

Originally posted by: NFS4

C/K Blazer -- long been dead

No, in 92-94 the C/K Blazer looked exactly like a Tahoe, until 95 when they changed the name to Tahoe. So the Tahoe is the successor to the C/K Blazer.

1992 full-size Blazer

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: bizmark

Originally posted by: NFS4

C/K Blazer -- long been dead

No, in 92-94 the C/K Blazer looked exactly like a Tahoe, until 95 when they changed the name to Tahoe. So the Tahoe is the successor to the C/K Blazer.

1992 full-size Blazer

The C/K Blazer I'm talking about is a 2-door. They don't make full-size 2-door Tahoes.

 

[CocaCola5]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: bizmark

Originally posted by: NFS4

C/K Blazer -- long been dead

No, in 92-94 the C/K Blazer looked exactly like a Tahoe, until 95 when they changed the name to Tahoe. So the Tahoe is the successor to the C/K Blazer.

1992 full-size Blazer

The C/K Blazer I'm talking about is a 2-door. They don't make full-size 2-door Tahoes.

The 2dr Tahoes is the Yukon(I believe), same car just a different name.