Japanese cars: Boring, safe -- and selling

[NFS4]

I found this interesting for the Japanese bashers

http://auto.com/industry/walsh26_20020726.htm

And the part that stuck out most to me:

Here's another caution about relying too much on exterior design in the long-term strategy.

The innards of a car still matter. And the innards are where Honda and Toyota are often willing to be pioneers and risk-takers.

All of the U.S. auto companies, for example, are making noise about selling hybrid gas-electric vehicles in a few years. Honda and Toyota are selling them now.

All of the U.S. auto companies are talking about vehicles powered by fuel cells. On Wednesday, the Honda FCX became the first fuel cell vehicle fully certified by the California Air Resources Board and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency for use on American roads.

 

[Nefrodite]

yea that does raise my opinion of the companies quite a bit. last gm thing i saw were those tiny neighborhood go carts. get real

 

[notfred]

japanese cars aren't boring! Didn't you know that Hoda civics are race cars?

 

[Adul]

Originally posted by: notfred
japanese cars aren't boring! Didn't you know that Hoda civics are race cars?

no sht really?

 

[Ciber]

well here comes another 200 post thread with the same people arguing about the same cars for the billionth time lol.......

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Ciber
well here comes another 200 post thread with the same people arguing about the same cars for the billionth time lol.......

BRING IT ON!!

 

[EvilYoda]

Since I just had a huge fight with my g/f, I'll take a more direct approach to the usual car thread:

Domestics suck.

<note: Opinions expressed here are not reflective of the person that posted them>

 

[lowtech1]

What does Chrysler know about "style" when the produce hideous things such as the PT Cruiser & Prowler.

 

[Adul]

cars suck in general. They suck tons of money from your wallet

 

[Cattlegod]

i think these threads about cars make my stomach hurt more by reading them than the religion threads

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Ciber
well here comes another 200 post thread with the same people arguing about the same cars for the billionth time lol.......

 

[Colt45]

The only good imports come from europe.

poop on honda/toyota/nissan/etc/etc.

 

[iamwiz82]

poop on anything that cant do this

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Colt45
The only good imports come from europe.

poop on honda/toyota/nissan/etc/etc.

LOL, European cars and Japanese cars are both good in their own right. I'd take a European or Japanese car over an American car any day.

 

[EvilYoda]

Oh yeah....well.....all cars suck, my uber-Huffy can kick your Lambo's ass.

 

[N8Magic]

Originally posted by: EvilYoda
Since I just had a huge fight with my g/f, I'll take a more direct approach to the usual car thread:

Domestics suck.

<note: Opinions expressed here are not reflective of the person that posted them>

You should rephrase that.

SOME domestics suck.

Japanese automakers can only wish their trucks and SUV's were as good as their domestic counterparts.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: N8Magic

Originally posted by: EvilYoda
Since I just had a huge fight with my g/f, I'll take a more direct approach to the usual car thread:

Domestics suck.

<note: Opinions expressed here are not reflective of the person that posted them>

You should rephrase that.

SOME domestics suck.

Japanese automakers can only wish their trucks and SUV's were as good as their domestic counterparts.

Puhlease...trucks...yes. But Japanese own in SUV's IMHO and they are damned good at what they are designed to do minus the recalls, crappy interiors, and poor material quality, and trips to the service bay to replace faulty trim.

Highlander, Pilot over the Explorer
Acura MDX/RX300 over Mountaineer
I'd take the Sequoia over the Expedition/Tahoe/Yukon
I'd also take a CRV over the Escape (mofo has been recalled more times than I'd care to remember)
RAV4 over the Tracker

 

[Pliablemoose]

What, I asked him, is the emotion that drives the purchase decision of a Toyota or Honda buyer?

Fear," he replied. Fear of losing resale value. Fear of a breakdown on the road. Toyota and Honda buyers believe their cars will keep running and hold onto decent resale value. Even if the exterior designs are ho-hum.

So here's my take: I've had 2 foreign cars & 1 domestic truck for 4 years now & it's just the right mix, My cars are perfect for commuting, my 3/4 ton van is perfect for hauling things like the 3/4 tons of tile, grout & mortar that I did last week, and for duty as a commuter stand in if one of my others needs repairs. None of the foreign vehicles work well as a hauler yet... I've looked @ the tilt cab UD (Nissan) & Isuzu's but insurance (my insurance company couldn't even find the models on their databases) & maintenance would be a headache (& they'd be overkill for my needs, can't see commuting in a tilt cab for some reason)

I'll need another vehicle in a few years for my oldest daughter when she's old enough to drive, & it'll be a foreign marque unless detroit really get's it's act together quickly.

 

[N8Magic]

Originally posted by: NFS4


Puhlease...trucks...yes. But Japanese own in SUV's IMHO and they are damned good at what they are designed to do minus the recalls, crappy interiors, and poor material quality, and trips to the service bay to replace faulty trim.

Highlander, Pilot over the Explorer
Acura MDX/RX300 over Mountaineer
I'd take the Sequoia over the Expedition/Tahoe/Yukon
I'd also take a CRV over the Escape (mofo has been recalled more times than I'd care to remember)
RAV4 over the Tracker

Those are toys. Not SUVs.

Envoy > Highlander, Pilot, MDX (more than one car/truck mag has said this)
Yukon > Sequoia (lacks low end grunt, same downfall as Tundra)
Liberty > Escape, CRV, RAV4

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: N8Magic

Originally posted by: NFS4


Puhlease...trucks...yes. But Japanese own in SUV's IMHO and they are damned good at what they are designed to do minus the recalls, crappy interiors, and poor material quality, and trips to the service bay to replace faulty trim.

Highlander, Pilot over the Explorer
Acura MDX/RX300 over Mountaineer
I'd take the Sequoia over the Expedition/Tahoe/Yukon
I'd also take a CRV over the Escape (mofo has been recalled more times than I'd care to remember)
RAV4 over the Tracker

Those are toys. Not SUVs.

Envoy > Highlander, Pilot, MDX (more than one car/truck mag has said this)
Yukon > Sequoia (lacks low end grunt, same downfall as Tundra)
Liberty > Escape, CRV, RAV4

Envoy is a nice truck with a cheesy interior. For $35,000 I'd like A LOT more than what it has. Also, the ride isn't as good as the Highlander. Not to mention that our Highlander came more fully loaded than an Envoy and only cost $32,500.

Yukon is also a competent bruiser let down by a cheesy interior and squeaks/rattles when you go over bumps. Seriously though, don't people expect more when they shell out an assload of money for a vehicle they'll be driving around town most of the time? In a truck, I can somewhat understand, but people use SUVs like cars these days.

Liberty? Puhlease. Even Jeep purists rag on this puppy. My neighbor across the street has one. After seeing our Highlander, she wishes she got that instead b/c she said that the Liberty rides rough and it doesn't have a lot of passenger/cargo room.

And before you tell me that I'm on my interior fetish again, even Domestic makers have come out and said that they are subpar on interior design/quality and they are trying to hard to match up the VW/Audi and Toyota/Honda.

And as for calling the Japanese SUV's toys, when 95% of all SUV's never see anything more than a gravel road that comment is pretty useless. The Japanese SUV's are good where it counts.

Now if you can honestly sit here and tell me that your average Envoy, Yukon, Trailblazer is more likely to be seen off-road than in a shopping mall parking lot; GO RIGHT AHEAD

 

[N8Magic]

Originally posted by: NFS4
Envoy is a nice truck with a cheesy interior. For $35,000 I'd like A LOT more than what it has. Also, the ride isn't as good as the Highlander. Not to mention that our Highlander came more fully loaded than an Envoy and only cost $32,500.

That would be because the Highlander is a Camry that's been jacked up. (a bit) As for the ride, that can be explained by the fact that an Envoy is still built on a "truck-like" frame, where as the Highlander is built on a reinforced car frame. A car will always outhandle a truck, but will make sacrifices in other areas like towing ability and off-road capabilities. Price? I'd be willing to bet that the Envoy could be negotiated down to below $32,500 whereas Toyota has an unwritten "no-haggle" policy here in Canada.

Yukon is also a competent bruiser let down by a cheesy interior. Seriously though, don't people expect more when they shell out an assload of money for a vehicle they'll be driving around town most of the time? In a truck, I can somewhat understand, but people use SUVs like cars these days.

Most people I know that own a Yukon (or other GM full-size SUV) use them for towing. People are paying that "assload" of money for a competent, durable engine and drivetrain, not some fru-fru interior to haul the clients around in.

Liberty? Puhlease. Even Jeep purists rag on this puppy. My neighbor across the street has one. After seeing our Highlander, she wishes she got that instead b/c she said that the Liberty rides rough and it doesn't have a lot of passenger/cargo room.

Sounds like she should have bought a minivan, not an SUV.

And before you tell me that I'm on my interior fetish again, even Domestic makers have come out and said that they are subpar on interior design/quality and they are trying to hard to match up the VW and Toyota/Honda.

I completely agree with you on this one, but an interior does not make an SUV.

And as for calling the Japanese SUV's toys, when 95% of all SUV's never see anything more than a gravel road that comment is pretty useless. The Japanese SUV's are good where it counts.

I *really* wish they would break this figure down in to smaller categories. I'd be willing to bet that the number you quoted is true when applied to the "toy-like" SUVs, but I bet that figure would be much smaller if you looked at the full-size GM SUV's and other non-toy SUVs.

 

[NFS4]

Also, last time I checked, the CRV is outselling the Liberty so far in 2002:

63,121 vs 60,399

And the Highlander is outselling the Envoy:

46,229 vs 36,080

And the Sequoia is neck and neck with the Yukon:

29,059 vs 29,781

Around here, the only vehicles that I even see covered in dirt are Ford/Chevy/Dodge pickups with off-roading packages, older Jeep Cherokees, C/K Blazers, Ramchargers, Xterras, and Wranglers

Every other SUV I see on the road is almost always my lover and span clean, has the wheels polished, with the usual "baby on board" sticker. Not many people are willing to do "off roading" in their $30,000 - $50,000 SUV's no matter if it's foreign or domestic...think about it...

Yukons, Suburbans, etc...75% of them are piloted by 30-40 year old women around these parts.

I just finished driving 700 miles round trip between Burlington, NC and Baltimore, MD in our Highlander. Constant cruising at 75 - 80 MPH with hardly any road noise, a ride smoother than my Camry (and definitely moreso than our old '97 Explorer XLT). That same ride would have my butt aching in the Explorer, but was very comfortable in the Highlander. Not to mention that we averaged 24 MPG for the trip with the cargo aread loaded down both ways (on the way up, loaded with an a$$load of crap for my grandma, and on the way back loaded with all the sh!t we got from Baltimore to bring back). Not bad for a 3800 lb "toy"

 

[Nefrodite]

true suvs have the kewl ground clearance a hummer has. the thing doesn't have a normal differentials thingie/axel whatever that gets in the way



n/m i found em, torsen differentials



humvee 4 wheel drive system, raised drive train using gear hubs

u go all the way baby!! or else ur just a sorry wannabe

might as well go with the nice smooth ride and well appointed interior if ur not goin humvee!

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: N8Magic

Originally posted by: EvilYoda
Since I just had a huge fight with my g/f, I'll take a more direct approach to the usual car thread:

Domestics suck.

<note: Opinions expressed here are not reflective of the person that posted them>

You should rephrase that.

SOME domestics suck.

Japanese automakers can only wish their trucks and SUV's were as good as their domestic counterparts.

Puhlease...trucks...yes. But Japanese own in SUV's IMHO and they are damned good at what they are designed to do minus the recalls, crappy interiors, and poor material quality, and trips to the service bay to replace faulty trim.

Highlander, Pilot over the Explorer
Acura MDX/RX300 over Mountaineer
I'd take the Sequoia over the Expedition/Tahoe/Yukon
I'd also take a CRV over the Escape (mofo has been recalled more times than I'd care to remember)
RAV4 over the Tracker

i thought we were comparing SUVs here
MDX and Pilot = minivan with 4 regular doors
RAV4, highlander, and CRV = station wagons with more upright seating position and a little more ground clearance.
i'm pretty sure the tracker is japanese (suzuki, anyone?)
sequoia is based off a truck, designed to look like market leader expedition, and would probably be pretty nice except now the expedition has better suspension, the styling is better (when you make a copy it never looks as good as the original) and you'd have to talk to laust to get a good opinion of the engine comparison.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: N8Magic

Originally posted by: EvilYoda
Since I just had a huge fight with my g/f, I'll take a more direct approach to the usual car thread:

Domestics suck.

<note: Opinions expressed here are not reflective of the person that posted them>

You should rephrase that.

SOME domestics suck.

Japanese automakers can only wish their trucks and SUV's were as good as their domestic counterparts.

Puhlease...trucks...yes. But Japanese own in SUV's IMHO and they are damned good at what they are designed to do minus the recalls, crappy interiors, and poor material quality, and trips to the service bay to replace faulty trim.

Highlander, Pilot over the Explorer
Acura MDX/RX300 over Mountaineer
I'd take the Sequoia over the Expedition/Tahoe/Yukon
I'd also take a CRV over the Escape (mofo has been recalled more times than I'd care to remember)
RAV4 over the Tracker

i thought we were comparing SUVs here
MDX and Pilot = minivan with 4 regular doors
RAV4, highlander, and CRV = station wagons with more upright seating position and a little more ground clearance.
i'm pretty sure the tracker is japanese (suzuki, anyone?)
sequoia is based off a truck, designed to look like market leader expedition, and would probably be pretty nice except now the expedition has better suspension, the styling is better (when you make a copy it never looks as good as the original) and you'd have to talk to laust to get a good opinion of the engine comparison.

Does it MATTER that they aren't based on truck platforms? NO!! Not unless you spend all your time hobbling over rocks. They are made for a specific purpose and they DO sell well as my numbers above show.

Since most of us use our vehicles for commuting to work or on trips, mountain goat legs for stomping around in the mud are unneeded and does nothing but add weight and cost you gas mileage.

Not that it really matters, the "new" Expedition scored dead last in C&D's latest comparison mainly b/c it's underpowered and it's even 100 pounds HEAVIER than a friggen Yukon XL (suburban clone)...WTF????? And the new Expedition looks like a bloated Explorer now IMHO.