Jack3d users: bad news

[CPA]

My wife works at a VitaminShoppe (national supplement chain) and received notification that the FDA is putting a hault to the sale of Jack3d. Of course, I didn't believe her, lol. So, a little research on google shows that they are worried that one of the ingredients - DMAA - may be responsible for heart attacks and some other medical issues. Yep, the wife was right again. Of course, none of these issues have been directly linked to the ingredient in Jack3d, it's just speculation. So, like ephedrine, the FDA is banning based on conjecture.

She said VitaminShoppe is going to sell their remaining stock, so you better get stocked up if you can get it.

 

[Miramonti]

There are going to be a lot of workout fiends pissed to hear this.

Personally I don't know what to make of it since the FDA has no credibility imo, but that's not to say they are always wrong either.

 

[destrekor]

There are going to be a lot of workout fiends pissed to hear this.

Personally I don't know what to make of it since the FDA has no credibility imo, but that's not to say they are always wrong either.

Arguably, they are doing their job in this case, imho.

1,3 DMAA [aka Methylhexanamine] is a fairly potent stimulant, acting as a vasoconstrictor and norepinephrine releasing agent.

I don't necessarily agree with bans, but these substances are hard to control. People can kill themselves by taking too many caffeine pills and conducting some athletic training, but aside from pills, it tends to be self limiting and dangerous doses tend to induce negative effects regardless.

Many people can take high doses of DMAA or ephedrine and not really put themselves at risk, but other people may have sensitive hearts or whatever. These substances, in excess, and when the body is pushed to the limit, appear to bring out even the smallest flaws in our faithful heart. And hell, who knows, maybe these people might have died during physical activity at some point, even without stims.

BTW, you can still buy ephedrine, just in the natural form of ephedra-containing products. Bronkaid and similar products marketed as bronchodilators are still available on store shelves, and contain the active ingredient ephedrine in precipitated salt form.

I'm still not really sure how I feel about the FDA banning supplements that contain various lesser-understood stims, based on people dying with them in their system... but this is what the FDA is supposed to do: regulate available products and remove any that seem to even have the potential to cause adverse reactions. Overreaching? Perhaps.
As much as I am a fan of letting the Darwinian approach do its thing, and quell the population in any way shape or form, I think it's also an intelligent approach to keep these things away.

Also, there are plenty of pre-workout supplements that don't now, and have never contained DMAA, and still retain raving fans of said supplements.


After reading various anecdotes of Jack3D and other 1,3 DMAA-containing PWOs, I've actually been avoiding supplements that contain it. I'll have to reread the label of the C4 Extreme I just bought to see if it's listed under Methylhexanamine instead of DMAA (which is all I looked for originally). I already have issues with inappropriate caffeine and ephedrine intake, and don't really want to push it with even more stims.
Some people rave about these products, some don't experience any negative effects, but some people have a hardcore crash after taking any PWO with DMAA.

I might have to grab a tub of Jack3D just to have in stock after it's removed from shelves. I'll rotate dosing on my workout days with other products, to try and minimize any tolerance to DMAA. Hell, that might even help my workouts, since I have built up quite the tolerance to other stims (trying to cut back, failing miserably).

 

[Lamont Burns]

I found 1, 3 to be better as an appetite suppressant. When I used it in PWOs, I found the feeling good, but the crash far worse ... which effected erection capabilities for hours as well. I bought up some 1, 3 in pill form b/c jacked is lol priced. You can get the same effects for 1/4 the cost with caffeine and 1, 3 on your own. People that spent their money on it were spending way, way too much.

As well, like the above .. after you consume 1, 3 enough days or weeks in a row, your tolerance is higher and thus it doesn't even give the affect in the gym you want. The placebro for habitual users was strong.

Much higher doses were being used in some countries by club kids looking for a cheap euphoria feeling.

Don't worry you can still buy legal steroids, even some in active form and not precursors that need a liver pass first. I'm not sure when the FDA will act on those, if ever. They banned a couple, even one that's terribly weak but left some that can kill your liver and require transplants. There's lawsuits and cases out there if anyone is inclined to research. They act oddly(the FDA), I'll say that.

 

[surfsatwerk]

God damn the FDA.

 

[darkxshade]

The article says they issued warnings that the companies must address... they haven't put a ban on it... yet. A little pocket change under the table by the supplement industry and the whole thing will blow over.

 

[surfsatwerk]

The article says they issued warnings that the companies must address... they haven't put a ban on it... yet. A little pocket change under the table by the supplement industry and the whole thing will blow over.

I've had my email blown up with fire sales on products containing DMAA. I think that speaks for itself.

 

[Doppel]

At this stage in the game we've had many years of impotent supplements (most are snake oil) and seen that even FDA-approved drugs that have been studied extensively can have side effects so severe they are pulled off the market.

What I'm saying is: If you're using a supplement now that is later found to be injurious it's really your own fault. I personally think they are almost universally sh*t and nobody should be taking this crap of unknown origin with little oversight.

I don't think we'd be worse off if all these products required tighter oversight by the FDA.

 

[QueBert]

There are plenty of popular pre-work outs that have 1,3 D. If anyone has the $$$ to stock up on any they still find in stock, you'll end up making a KILLING. No BS, I could see people paying $100 for a tub of Jack3d, N'Sane or one of the other 1,3 D loaded PWO's out there when they can no longer find them at a Nutrishop or anywhere else.

I don't know the science side of supplements, but I know I took N'Sane, which is brimming with 1,3 D, and I seriously felt like I was on a drug that had to be illegal. I've never felt like that in my life, I was almost scared. Don't think it was the 1,3 alone, I took Jack3d and it did effect me, but not like that though.

 

[surfsatwerk]

The hypocrisy of the FDA is astounding. We will let people eat themselves into a lifetime of obesity and diabetes, but any stimulants that help people control their appetite or help motivate them to exercise must be banned.

The government should have no say in what I choose to put in my body.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

The supplement industry needs regulation.

PERIOD.

The only way to do a workout supplement like jacked is to research the ingredients and buy them individually. Right now, there is no way to know what is going in your body. You might as well eat fruit covered in toxic pesticides.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

At this stage in the game we've had many years of impotent supplements (most are snake oil) and seen that even FDA-approved drugs that have been studied extensively can have side effects so severe they are pulled off the market.

What I'm saying is: If you're using a supplement now that is later found to be injurious it's really your own fault. I personally think they are almost universally sh*t and nobody should be taking this crap of unknown origin with little oversight.

I don't think we'd be worse off if all these products required tighter oversight by the FDA.

I'd be happy if the term "proprietary mix" were banned from the ingredient list. And in it's place, the actually ingredients along with exacting measurements of each ingredient.

 

[destrekor]

The supplement industry needs regulation.

PERIOD.

The only way to do a workout supplement like jacked is to research the ingredients and buy them individually. Right now, there is no way to know what is going in your body. You might as well eat fruit covered in toxic pesticides.

Thankfully, if you do some research on your own, there is often a few people willing to do some advanced chemical and biological analysis on different supplements, and people will swear for or against certain brands based on what people have discovered in some products.

 

[surfsatwerk]

The supplement industry needs regulation.

PERIOD.

The only way to do a workout supplement like jacked is to research the ingredients and buy them individually. Right now, there is no way to know what is going in your body. You might as well eat fruit covered in toxic pesticides.

The only regulation that needs to occur is for the removal of "proprietary ingredients" and for the FDA to assure customers they are getting the ingredients listed on the label.

 

[Sixguns]

I am glad I stopped using this last month. Wont have to worry about high prices if it does get banned.

 

[alkemyst]

There are going to be a lot of workout fiends pissed to hear this.

Personally I don't know what to make of it since the FDA has no credibility imo, but that's not to say they are always wrong either.

where do you get your nonsensical information from?

FDA has no credibility?!!?

 

[surfsatwerk]

where do you get your nonsensical information from?

FDA has no credibility?!!?

Ephedrine ban, steroid bans. But the fake fat that makes you shit yourself is ok.

 

[alkemyst]

Ephedrine ban, steroid bans. But the fake fat that makes you shit yourself is ok.

Unfortunately ephedrine (which I do use and you can get still) and steroids were abused. I don't agree with all the drug laws in the US but that doesn't mean the FDA is not a good thing.

 

[destrekor]

Unfortunately ephedrine (which I do use and you can get still) and steroids were abused. I don't agree with all the drug laws in the US but that doesn't mean the FDA is not a good thing.

I do agree.

Certain supplements and things can simply run out of control.
I think a better solution would be to keep them available but behind the counter, properly age-limited, and quantities counted for consumption rates (as opposed to ephedrine and the like, which are counted, in grams of chemical, for legal/drug reasons). But I haven't really put any thought into that until just now, and it may be a terrible and non-effective solution. Meh.

Ultimately, they have to do something to keep people from harming themselves (when under the pretense (and ignorance) that it is safe since it can be sold in stores. Any of these chemicals, in high amounts, and then pushing your body to the absolute physical limitations of your fitness, can become a deadly combination.
The FDA has always had to tread a very fine line, between consumer freedom of choice and overall public safety.

Same with their nutritional guidelines. As they currently stand, they are slightly antiquidated, but it's a difficult task to create an average nutritional profile for our population, when some are active like they need to be and some refuse to put themselves through any physical exertion and eat "whatever I damn well please." And banning certain types of food items is not really the right path to take.
Honestly, a lot of these things need to be tackled in public education. The FDA can only do so much, and until our population really catches up, this is what they feel serves as the best option. I would agree with them on this, just like the banning of ephedra-based [aka plant-based] products.
Personally, I still buy Bronkaid (when I can find it, Primatine when I can't but the former is a far better deal due to chemical dosage/strength and quantity) as it does contain ephedrine in chemical-salt form.
But it just takes a little self-education to understand the pros and cons, and how to be smart about consumption - and you can't really just throw a product out there and hope people are intelligent. Our society has proven, time and time again, they are not intelligent enough, on average, to handle this kind of responsibility. And true freedom of choice will not ever, and can never, truly exist - not when you are trying to keep a society toward the top of the world. As I stated earlier, it will always be a careful dance right on that line of "right/wrong" when it comes to regulation.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Fwiw. I use creatine monohydrate only. Proven safe. Provene ffective.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Fwiw. I use creatine monohydrate only. Proven safe. Provene ffective.

What is your point? There is a laundry list of safe and effective stuff the FDA has banned because there is a potential danger when abused. Creatine will make you shit your eyeballs out if you take too much of it, maybe we should ban that out of concern for assholes everywhere.

 

[Sixguns]

What is your point? There is a laundry list of safe and effective stuff the FDA has banned because there is a potential danger when abused. Creatine will make you shit your eyeballs out if you take too much of it, maybe we should ban that out of concern for assholes everywhere.

Thats why I hate loading. But I did feel very cleaned out and empty so it was a plus.

 

[alkemyst]

What is your point? There is a laundry list of safe and effective stuff the FDA has banned because there is a potential danger when abused. Creatine will make you shit your eyeballs out if you take too much of it, maybe we should ban that out of concern for assholes everywhere.

very different than people dying from abuse.

Personally I say let them die, but lawsuits make it a burden for us all.

 

[Sixguns]

If people over use then its their own fault that they die. On the can of Jack3d it clearly gives dosing instructions. If you want to double up on it then go for it. But this goes for anything on the market not just supplements. What about Alcohol/prescrption drugs or anything of that nature. If abused, it will mess you up but again its on the user since warnings are place all over them.

 

[QueBert]

Fwiw. I use creatine monohydrate only. Proven safe. Provene ffective.

It doesn't work as a pre-workout though, I take Super Pump Max before I work out. I feel more energy and more focus. Creatine's a totally different beast than a PWO. Yeah it's effective, but it's in a non comparable way to something like Jack3d.