Jack3d users: bad news

[destrekor]

It doesn't work as a pre-workout though, I take Super Pump Max before I work out. I feel more energy and more focus. Creatine's a totally different beast than a PWO. Yeah it's effective, but it's in a non comparable way to something like Jack3d.

Creatine is a good component of a well-rounded PWO.

Ones like Jack3D and other super-concentrates use a different angle than the SuperPump line.

I've been experimenting with a few different PWOs now that I am getting serious about a muscle building routine. I've only done one day with SuperPump Max, but with two scoops it either a) wasn't really quite enough, or b) it was just an off day. But I have been trying different things here and there all over the place, and timing is a thing too. I'd say I had a better session when I tried 2 scoops of C4 Extreme, but so far, there are a lot of factors that would impact the efficacy of any given PWO for me.
I definitely felt something with SPM, and I pushed myself quite well, so my opinion of any PWO, including SPM, is fairly worthless until I can give a few more trials.

But yeah, a lot of them do indeed have creatine. It definitely helps with what PWOs are supposed to do, but some PWOs focus more on stimulants than anything else.

 

[CPA]

Unfortunately ephedrine (which I do use and you can get still) and steroids were abused. I don't agree with all the drug laws in the US but that doesn't mean the FDA is not a good thing.

Anything can be abused to the point it can harm you. That doesn't mean it should be banned.

 

[CPA]

Fwiw. I use creatine monohydrate only. Proven safe. Provene ffective.

Tell that to the three doctors that have told me otherwise. Not that I agree with them, just saying.

 

[destrekor]

Tell that to the three doctors that have told me otherwise. Not that I agree with them, just saying.

Doctors have always and will probably remain against basically any performance-minded supplement.

These are mostly older fools who have held onto ancient beliefs that have, in the past decade, basically been proven wrong.

Most recent research has shown that, unless you are taking hundreds of grams of these supplements, they are safe and effective.

There IS still a minor concern of liver and kidney health, but those are largely a possibly negative health impact for people with pre-existing issues.
If you are in good health, research has not shown any negative effects.

Doctors do tend to steer people away from anything that may have caused issues to someone in the past, regardless of quantities consumed and other health factors. That, and the little past research conducted was minimal and not thorough in the least.

But that's a doctor doing their job. Even a hint of negative light around something, even if misunderstood, and they won't advise you do it. Doctors generally only positively advise things that have never had any kind of negative stigma, and even minimal research has shown a smattering of benefits.

You'd have to go to a very modern, very athletically-focused doctor to see approvals for basically any exercise-minded supplement. And even then, you might be out of luck if looking for approval.

 

[destrekor]

Anything can be abused to the point it can harm you. That doesn't mean it should be banned.

But a lot of these stimulants can and will exacerbate any kind of cardiological defect. And most people can go through a host of tests in life, for various other things, and never know they have such a thing. It's either an accidental discovery when testing for other things, or it's after something bad has happened due to it - usually death for these things.

I'd wager a good portion of those who have died "due to stimulants" may have had a heart defect waiting to have its moment to shine.
Look at these top athletes, who have been in the game for years, and suddenly fall due such thing - and that's without stimulants.
Sometimes you can go your whole life, even pushing the limit, and never trigger the defect, so to speak.

Without purposeful and advance screenings for even the smallest of defects, it's difficult to really protect against. And it's a subject that we have discovered we really don't know much about.

Keeping little-studied stimulants out of the hands of athletes may be the best solution until we come to the conclusion every single human will need to be scanned, and in some ways have their life dictated for them, or force them to sign a waver saying "do what you want - don't say we didn't warn you."

Thus far, a lot of the organizations that DO screen for such issues trip a lot of false-positives, and regardless everyone who screens positive is told "nope, you can't participate in this. Sorry, you were dealt bad cards."


I generally agree with the notion of let individuals take the risks they choose. If I had such a defect and was told to stop an activity, I'd fight and beg to let me continue anyway. That would be my choice, and life, imho, is too boring without stressing the heart and body a bit. If something happens, well, it might or might not happen before these genes get passed on - and that's life doing it's thing.
I sure as hell don't want to be an out of shape, barely holding onto my health 60, 70, 80 year old. Die young or keep my ability to stay active and healthy when I'm old. Otherwise those suicide booths better be available if I must depend on others for the basic necessities.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Water lovers, look out! The FDA is coming for your H20 next!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication

...also known as water poisoning, is a potentially fatal disturbance in brain functions...

Better stock up! The FDA is coming to protect us from this dangerous substance!

 

[alkemyst]

Doctors have always and will probably remain against basically any performance-minded supplement.

These are mostly older fools who have held onto ancient beliefs that have, in the past decade, basically been proven wrong.

Most recent research has shown that, unless you are taking hundreds of grams of these supplements, they are safe and effective.

There IS still a minor concern of liver and kidney health, but those are largely a possibly negative health impact for people with pre-existing issues.
If you are in good health, research has not shown any negative effects.

Doctors do tend to steer people away from anything that may have caused issues to someone in the past, regardless of quantities consumed and other health factors. That, and the little past research conducted was minimal and not thorough in the least.

But that's a doctor doing their job. Even a hint of negative light around something, even if misunderstood, and they won't advise you do it. Doctors generally only positively advise things that have never had any kind of negative stigma, and even minimal research has shown a smattering of benefits.

You'd have to go to a very modern, very athletically-focused doctor to see approvals for basically any exercise-minded supplement. And even then, you might be out of luck if looking for approval.

The doctors aren't really fools, IMHO most people out there really don't need supplementation.

I am one that really benefits from it, but even I don't get into all this stimulant crap. I can pretty easily drop 10lbs a week if I go insane in the gym. I have already laid the groundwork for my muscle base so that comes back quick.

I will take a 20mg-200mg-81mg ECA stack, I take creatine, glutamin, some L-arginitne. XTEND. Protein powder and not much else. I see and hear guys talking about all this crap they buy, down red bull and other 'energy drinks' non-stop at the gym, yet don't really do much there.

A doctor plays the safe route. Also many don't know much about sports nutrition nor nutrition in general. Going to the right doctor makes a big difference.