Ivybridge should match LLano in graphics

[jimbo75]

Uhh....Anand just presents Data. Right now, Intel has vastly superior CPUs than AMD. The only place this isn't true is AMDzone.com, which I am sure you are familiar with.

Anand is going to have a real problem, because you can be sure that AMD wants Llano benchmarked at higher settings than SB is capable of running evenly slightly decently.

He basically has to choose between lowest settings favouring SB, or medium settings favouring Llano. We'll see.

 

[OCGuy]

He basically has to choose between lowest settings favouring SB, or medium settings favouring Llano. We'll see.

Or...follow me here.....he could bench on multiple settings.

 

[Phynaz]

I dont think anyone implied they do that, Phynaz thats just you putting words into Jimbo's mouth.

Maybe...

If I had a 2600K and Zacate I could very easily show Zacate beating it in many, many games. Then again, I know for sure that I'm not getting paid by intel to ensure that doesn't happen.

Anand's favourite "make intel graphics look good" game.

Sounds to me like something is being implied here.

But, that's for other people to decide. I think the best course of action is for me to abstain interacting any further with Jimbo. It will help keep this thread from deteriorating into some kind of silly war.

 

[bgt]

sure looks nice for a laptop:

http://fudzilla.com/processors/item/22738-more-mobile-llano-specs-leaked

 

[stargazr]

Recently leaked documents - AMD - Llano offers 325% better graphics performance than Sandy Bridge:

http://www.nordichardware.com/news/...r-graphcis-performance-than-sandy-bridge.html

 

[Lonbjerg]

Recently leaked documents - AMD - Llano offers 325% better graphics performance than Sandy Bridge:

http://www.nordichardware.com/news/...r-graphcis-performance-than-sandy-bridge.html

It's 3D mark...FFS.

So what...6-7 FPS vs 2 FPS in real world gaming?

Big fucking deal...

 

[Abwx]

It's 3D mark...FFS.

So what...6-7 FPS vs 2 FPS in real world gaming?

Big fucking deal...

......

 

[Lonbjerg]

......

You give me low resolution, 0xAA, 0xAF, low quality, DX9 crap ...and I am supposed to be impressed?

You can polish a IGP and paint it with gold and call it an "APU"...but you are still stuck with crappy IGP performance.

It's like watching 2 migdets figthing over who is "tallest"...it's pointless.

 

[Riek]

You give me low resolution, 0xAA, 0xAF, low quality, DX9 crap ...and I am supposed to be impressed?

You can polish a IGP and paint it with gold and call it an "APU"...but you are still stuck with crappy IGP performance.

It's like watching 2 migdets figthing over who is "tallest"...it's pointless.

What do you expect? performance equalling cards that pull >100W?

The games are playable at resolutions used on laptops (hence its a comparison between laptops). looking at the results there are some games which can have a higher detail on llano. (AF filtering or high quality)

 

[Abwx]

It's like watching 2 migdets figthing over who is "tallest"...it's pointless.

You re not objective...

Looking at the score, one system offer fully playable frame rate
while the other is stuck to symbolical fps..

Fanboism, someone?...

 

[krumme]

SB graphics performance as presented by ryan and anand could lead to wrong consumer decisions in my view. I experience my sb i5m as marginally slower than the old 8600mgs still in the house. Any resemblance to NV 320m performance is just bs for real use. I would prefer AMD or NV lowend any day. Keep the hype down, the Intel GPU is very slow with drivers like 8 years ago. Ivy bridge will not change that. Intel dont have the software guys to do the job, like AMD dont have the cpu compiler competence. Just accept it, and be happy about SB, - its a fine cpu as it is.

Llano will show what the consumers prefer. I think they can think for themselves, and the choice they make, will be the result. Be it in favor of llano or not. I think Llano is a stupid product, but the consumers are the judge. If we look at all the OEM fighting for bobcat, we shouldnt be surpriced if the consumers think Llano cpu performance is perfectly okey and then some, then it all comes down to power/battery life.

 

[Phynaz]

You re not objective...

Looking at the score, one system offer fully playable frame rate
while the other is stuck to symbolical fps..

Fanboism, someone?...

14fps is playable?

 

[Vette73]

14fps is playable?

For a turn based game, yea. Its not a FPS where every frame below 30 may matter.

 

[Abwx]

14fps is playable?

Phynaz coming at Intel s rescue...

Who else would have picked the only game out of 7
that has low-ish fps as an evidence of Llano not giving
enough frame rates ??..

Btw, is CIV5 a game not very playable at low fps ??..

 

[Phynaz]

Phynaz coming at Intel s rescue...

Hardly.

What part of "I want a Llano laptop" don't you understand?

 

[Abwx]

Hardly.

What part of "I want a Llano laptop" don't you understand?

Dont sure to understand the question...

That said, and from my limited experience, past notebooks
have CPUs that are still enough for today s basic usages,
provided they were equiped with a good graphic card.

What ultimately determined their life cycle was the power
of the Gpu, not the CPU s capability..

In that respect, Llano will bring quite a progress
in IGP based notebooks life span..

 

[Dresdenboy]

You give me low resolution, 0xAA, 0xAF, low quality, DX9 crap ...and I am supposed to be impressed?

You can polish a IGP and paint it with gold and call it an "APU"...but you are still stuck with crappy IGP performance.

These lowish settings should even help SB's GPU, but not enough.

At least a bit of understanding hardware design and design tradeoffs actually helps developing more realistic expectations.

Or why are DT graphic cards producing "playable framerates" (an undefined term depending on many factors) not as small and quiet as a firewire/USB 3.0/whatever extension card?

 

[dma0991]

AMD is not in any position to start a price war.

But, why would AMD price cheaper that Intel? What benefit does that get them? When have they done so in the past? Is ATI doing it now?

There's a saying in business - He who lives by price dies by price.

AMD doesn't have the capacity to fulfill the demand like Intel do but who would want to get AMD if the brand confidence is not built upon cheap or equivalent in terms of pricing to Intel. I can ask 10 random people I know and at least more than 1/2 will know about Intel and maybe 1/5 or more know about AMD.

If AMD can regain a significant amount of market share and brand confidence I'm sure AMD can demand a premium for their processors but now is not the right time to do that IMHO.

Dont sure to understand the question...

That said, and from my limited experience, past notebooks
have CPUs that are still enough for today s basic usages,
provided they were equiped with a good graphic card.

What ultimately determined their life cycle was the power
of the Gpu, not the CPU s capability..

In that respect, Llano will bring quite a progress
in IGP based notebooks life span..

This.

From my past experience having a GPU together along with the CPU will increase the usability period of the system. Have had systems built upon a good CPU but lousy GPU and it didn't last as long in terms of usability compared to a balance between CPU and GPU.

 

[Lonbjerg]

What do you expect? performance equalling cards that pull >100W?

The games are playable at resolutions used on laptops (hence its a comparison between laptops). looking at the results there are some games which can have a higher detail on llano. (AF filtering or high quality)

I don't want to game at settings lower than my Ti4600 used...calling it gaming today is a joke

 

[Lonbjerg]

You re not objective...

Looking at the score, one system offer fully playable frame rate
while the other is stuck to symbolical fps..

Fanboism, someone?...

I know you are one...but calling those FPS and settings for playable in 2011...that has to be a fanboy talking....since it's a joke.

 

[Phynaz]

who would want to get AMD if the brand confidence is not built upon cheap or equivalent in terms of pricing to Intel.

If AMD can regain a significant amount of market share and brand confidence I'm sure AMD can demand a premium for their processors but now is not the right time to do that IMHO.

I don't know how you build brand confidence by being known as cheap.

Anyway, AMD has already tried the market share at any price strategy. That didn't work out so well for them.

The simple fact is AMD is nuts to attempt to go after Intel head on. They may have an advantage in Llano graphics and they need to sell based on that. If they sell based on price they run strait into one of the places where Intel will crush them.

 

[podspi]

I don't know how you build brand confidence by being known as cheap.

Anyway, AMD has already tried the market share at any price strategy. That didn't work out so well for them.

The simple fact is AMD is nuts to attempt to go after Intel head on. They may have an advantage in Llano graphics and they need to sell based on that. If they sell based on price they run strait into one of the places where Intel will crush them.

If the leaked price tables are to be believed, top-bin Llano is going to go for $170. If they end up being as popular as Bobcat they should make quite a bit of money off of them.

 

[Khato]

Heh, what I find most amusing about the 'leaked benchmarks' is that if they're to believed, then the A8-3510MX goes from performing like a radeon mobility 5650 in Dirt 2 (400SP at 450-650 MHz depending on model, 25.6 GB/s memory bandwidth) to something more like a radeon 6450 in Call of Duty: Black Ops. Which either means that they're not genuine, or the design is severely memory bandwidth limited in some games. It's going to be quite exciting to see the real performance picture in a few weeks, no doubt about it.

 

[jimbo75]

I don't want to game at settings lower than my Ti4600 used...calling it gaming today is a joke

I wonder what sort of laptop you'd want for gaming? One that lasts 30 minutes unless plugged into a wall?

 

[dma0991]

I don't know how you build brand confidence by being known as cheap.

Selling cheap in a short term for a new product and users will gain brand confidence in a long term. I never said that AMD should price their products cheap forever. I said that they should price it reasonable enough that people can give it a try and if it is good then they might consider AMD in the future. Intel was not famous overnight and AMD is no different.

I don't think AMD is fighting Intel head on in terms of raw CPU power because even with Llano it doesn't even have Bulldozer cores thus it would lose to SB in terms of raw CPU power. So AMD has to compete with Intel in terms of a balance of CPU and GPU power. That is AMDs gamble and I'd like to see how it all plays out.