Ive had it......This is the last draw

[imported_thefonz]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: x80064
Because I am a ATI fanboy.......
So the moral of the story here is.....

....to not get emotionally attached to PC components.

Your post made me lol though sorry. If you want to root for a team, find a sport that interests you. When it comes to PC components just buy what suits you best when you're ready to buy. That'll keep you happy (and sane).

i like to pick the underdog ... unless i am putting serious money on it and stand to lose

i am *still* rooting for ATi ... and AMD ... we *need* them

will i buy an ati gpu in the future when i build my rig, next year?

sure ... IF it is best-bang-for-buck for my rig....

but if not, then nvidia is fine

ATi is not loyal to me ... my 'loyalty' ends when their product is inferior or late
[or IF i get screwed by one of their Partner's RMA scams]

there are sports teams i "like" but i am no *fanboy*

It's refreshing to see such a neutral person on this forum, its not like people have gained anything by bashing video card companies or promoting them :disgust:

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: thefonz

Originally posted by: apoppin

i am *still* rooting for ATi ... and AMD ... we *need* them

will i buy an ati gpu in the future when i build my rig, next year?

sure ... IF it is best-bang-for-buck for my rig....

but if not, then nvidia is fine

It's refreshing to see such a neutral person on this forum, its not like people have gained anything by bashing video card companies or promoting them :disgust:

thank-you

and it was not always that way....

i have been *born again*
:light:

and rather recently too :moon::sun:

i was very *one sided* ... and largely because of the "unfairness" of especially Rollo and his fans a couple of years here in Video

so i took a *side* just to counter FUD and to really *learn something* about Video ... i was a "natural" for an ATI fanboy since i owned ATi Cards since Rage Fury '99 with *one* exception, a GeForce256 back in '00.

recently i had a problem with Sapphire's RMA for my x1950p and realized it was going to be a long [long] time ... so i bought a replacement ... a 7800GS OC that is a more perfect match for my rig than the x1950p.

what can i say? .. i absolutely "love" the card [like i did my x850xt, last year] and can't fault it in any way

EITHER gpu is fine for me

that's my story and i am sticking with it

 

[Kadarin]

Ive had it......This is the last draw

Not to nitpick or anything, but the expression is actually "This is the last straw!"

 

[miniMUNCH]

Originally posted by: Matt2
I dont know why people put up with ATI's (now AMD's) marketing techniques.

Nvidia gets their product out the door first, ATI loses profits by playing catch up, ATI tries to curb Nvidia's sales by leaking specs of a monster GPU, people wait months for this vaporware GPU, ATI releases marginally faster GPU, repeat yearly.

QFT

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: miniMUNCH

Originally posted by: Matt2
I dont know why people put up with ATI's (now AMD's) marketing techniques.

Nvidia gets their product out the door first, ATI loses profits by playing catch up, ATI tries to curb Nvidia's sales by leaking specs of a monster GPU, people wait months for this vaporware GPU, ATI releases marginally faster GPU, repeat yearly.

QFT

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Ive had it......This is the last draw

Not to nitpick or anything, but the expression is actually "This is the last straw!"

well then let me nitpick a little

it IS the "last draw" if you are done picking cards from a certain deck



it wasn't *ATi's technique* and it isn't AMD's now ... they are having real problems or it would be out the door shortly as it was promised by AMD's CEO ....

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Well, in light of this news, looks like there is going to be a surge in G80 sales now.
ATI wants desperately to best G80 no doubt, but when it effects your ability to get a product to market, it's time to rethink what's more important. Which is, "Do we try to get our product out there to our faithful who have been waiting to buy it? Or do we keep re-spinning our silicon so we can get the clocks we need to beat G80?"

Remember the X1800 though? We all thought it couldn't get the clock speeds ATI intended for a long time, until it was leaked that it was a design issue with a metal layer of some sort. Took them 9 months to find it. Wonder what they missed this time around.

I hope they release something sooner than later, that is for sure.

You're going on complete assumption saying there's something wrong with the R600 or that it's slower than the G80. It could just as easily be a GDDR4 supply problem. Or possibly GPU production wasn't able to ramp up quickly enough to give an adequate supply for the previously projected release date and AMD wants to ensure a hard launch. We may never know the true reason for the delay.

I know Creig. Anything other than R600 has something wrong with it to let something like this happen. In no way shape or form does the R600 have anything to do with R600's tardiness here. It's everyone else's fault. I agree with you.

 

[SolMiester]

Originally posted by: BassBomb
Im with you X80064!!!

I have been watching ATi VS AMD product launches every since the 6 series for nVidia launched. As you can tell I'm traditionally an nVidia buyer.

But, I have always wanted to cross the pond into ATi. The biggest problem is the fact their midrange prices have NEVER been as good as nVidia. When they are its much too late to be even worth considering.

nVidia launches a pretty good product, then ATi launches a albeit better one much later at full price. While that takes so long, the nVidia product has already dropped in price making them much more affordable.

The past 6 months marked the only time I was very close in purchasing ATi. They had their X1900XT 256 mb and X1950XT 256 mb priced very well. Now the 8800GTS 320 is out and there goes the neighbourhood. For $50 more, a very capable and in some cases better product.

I really wish they would release their products at similar time frames to better compete, and give the consumer more selection. This would make nVidia drop its entry price (and ATi too). That would have the biggest effect on the market in my opinion.

Midrange is where I LOVE to lay, but the releases are too long for midrange (1 year+ compared to ~6 months for high end)

Same here bud....

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: x80064
Keep my pants on ? I kept my pants on waiting on the 1800 Series.....Ive kept my pants on waiting on R600, and now its delayed ? For all I care, it can stay delayed. And ive stuck with ATI over the years because their cards has always been excellent in my machines.

BTW, what part of ( there is NO attachment to components, just my PC.......especially when PC's are hard to come by ) don't you understand ?

No, they did not delay it to anger me......but when you wake up, hoping for something different to read about my favorite company, and I see the words delayed ? Well, you know....

I feel the same way as you do. I was GOING to wait for R600...but then I read that it got delayed passed January (this was back in November 2006) so I thought screw it and went with the 8800GTS. I won't completely overlook ATI for my next upgrade, but they better have something with an equal feature set and performance for a decent price. Right now they're getting hammered in the mid to high end segments especially since the 8800GTS 320mb came out. More than anything I'm worried for the future of Radeons. If people stop buying obviously AMD will pull the plug and cease making GPUs. Obviously this is worst-case scenario but still plausible.

They should at least release some lower clocked mid-range parts to get some market share. I really thought they would be better at this kind of thing with AMD at the helm...it looks like they are being screwed even more though. Maybe AMD diverted some of the GPU resources to something else...hence the delays. <--pure speculation by the way.

 

[tuteja1986]

Originally posted by: x80064
I have been waiting months for R600. Because I am a ATI fanboy. I have owned almost every ATI card since the Radeon 9000. And was really looking forward to the new series.

I am going to be upgrading to a bigger lcd ( probably a 24" ) and was wanting a better card than I have now. BUT....since ATI cannot seem to get a card released or when its ready to be released, they postpone it even further, screw them. I'm not waiting 2-4 more months for an upgrade in monitor and video card.

So the moral of the story here is.....ATI JUST LOST ME AS A LONG TIME FAN AND CUSTOMER. Im going to go ahead and order a 8800GTS 640mb card from eVga. And when the 8900GTS is released, im gonna step up to it. And then my monitor in two weeks.

Anyway, I am just so pissed right now. I dont care if they need to get clocks high enough or whatever to compete with Nvidia. I will absolutely no longer deal with them ( not including AMD ). I dont care if its released tomorrow, My mind is made up. And it is.....screw ATI...........8(

Soooo........

Bye Bye ATI

HELLO Nvidia

END RANT

edit: spelling

For motherboard i couldn't care less which brand i get. Before i liked Asus in 939 days now i now i like gigabyte in conore days. I ain't a AMD or Intel fanboy ... i buy which ever is the best. But when it comes to GPU i have a little attachtedment to ATI but still it doesn't really stop me buying Nvidia product. When R600 comes out and if it demolish G80 then i would sell my 2x 8800GTX on ebay and buy one R600 card.

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: Matt2

I agree that both companies have their flaws, but I can deal with Nvidia sometimes not living up to expectations. I can live with that because at least they hard launch their products without hyping it up. This allows the consumer to read reviews and gives them the power to buy the product if they like what they see and make a decision for themselves if Nvidia came up short on a feature they wanted. An example of this is PureVideo. When PureVideo was broken, lots of people got turned off by Nvidia. I on the other hand couldnt give two sh1ts about PureVideo and I went with nvidia anyway.

What I cant deal with is ATI leaking specs that make their GPUs look twice as good and making it sound like it will be launched a month after Nvidia's release. People get hyped up and wait for months for a GPU that is delayed over and over again. Then they compound the problem even further by paper launching, showing their product is better, but then not allowing people to actually buy them for at least a couple of weeks. I hate it.

ATI only does this to make people wait for their product instead of buying the competitor's product. They may fool a lot of people with this strategy, but I'm not fooled by it anymore.

Personally, I think this marketing strategy by ATI (now AMD) is lower than anything Nvidia has done since cheating their 3DMark scores.

I guess I'm at the other end of the spectrum. Anyone remember 512MB 7800GTX? Horrible paper launch, spotty availability, and all so that Nvidia could say they have the most powerful video card. Pretty cheap if you ask me.

Anyone remember 7*** series AF and texture quality? Nvidia sneaks in some ugly optimizations just so it doesn't look so bad compared to the competition. Real designing prowess there.

I've owned nearly twice as many Nvidia cards as I have ATI cards but I still think Nvidia's tactics are more underhanded.

 

[daveybrat]

I'll be picking up the 8600Ultra more than likely when it's released. (hopefully soon!)

Sad that Nvidia will be releasing a "budget" DirectX 10 video card soon when ATI hasn't even released their high end or any DX10 card for that matter!

Like others have said, buy the best bang for the buck at the time regardless of brands.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Elfear

I've owned nearly twice as many Nvidia cards as I have ATI cards but I still think Nvidia's tactics are more underhanded.

i used to feel that way ... but ATi has caught up with nvidia's viral marketing ... and frankly, nvidia is just *better* at marketing their product than ATi was. ... aggressive, certainly .... but that is the nature of gfx business - cutthroat.

but it now mostly depends on the product ... how it will do in my rig, how much will it cost, what's the driver support like and warranty service

the rest is *fluff*

the fluff causing flames ... here in video

both companies make great products and they have had their share of stumbles ...
--but *this time* i think if it turns out to be a long delay ... it will be very bad for AMD

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Elfear

I've owned nearly twice as many Nvidia cards as I have ATI cards but I still think Nvidia's tactics are more underhanded.

i used to feel that way ... but ATi has caught up with nvidia's viral marketing ... and frankly, nvidia is just *better* at marketing their product than ATi was. ... aggressive, certainly .... but that is the nature of gfx business - cutthroat.

but it now mostly depends on the product ... how it will do in my rig, how much will it cost, what's the driver support like and warranty service

the rest is *fluff*

the fluff causing flames ... here in video

both companies make great products and they have had their share of stumbles ...
--but *this time* i think if it turns out to be a long delay ... it will be very bad for AMD

I agree. AMD/ATI are shooting themselves in the foot this round. A few months delay isn't good but this is starting to smell very Duke Nukemesque.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Well, in light of this news, looks like there is going to be a surge in G80 sales now.
ATI wants desperately to best G80 no doubt, but when it effects your ability to get a product to market, it's time to rethink what's more important. Which is, "Do we try to get our product out there to our faithful who have been waiting to buy it? Or do we keep re-spinning our silicon so we can get the clocks we need to beat G80?"

Remember the X1800 though? We all thought it couldn't get the clock speeds ATI intended for a long time, until it was leaked that it was a design issue with a metal layer of some sort. Took them 9 months to find it. Wonder what they missed this time around.

I hope they release something sooner than later, that is for sure.

You're going on complete assumption saying there's something wrong with the R600 or that it's slower than the G80. It could just as easily be a GDDR4 supply problem. Or possibly GPU production wasn't able to ramp up quickly enough to give an adequate supply for the previously projected release date and AMD wants to ensure a hard launch. We may never know the true reason for the delay.

I know Creig. Anything other than R600 has something wrong with it to let something like this happen. In no way shape or form does the R600 have anything to do with R600's tardiness here. It's everyone else's fault. I agree with you.

Talk about a lack of reading comprehension... :disgust: Take a step back and look our posts again keys.

In your first post, you stated "it was a design issue with a metal layer of some sort. Took them 9 months to find it. Wonder what they missed this time around" as if you had some sort of concrete proof that ATI goofed up once again, this time with the R600. There's no "might have", "could have" or "maybe" in there. I'd like to see some proof from you backing up your assertion that the R600's delay is ATI's fault.

My reply was simply pointing out that, with the current lack of any evidence, there could be any number of reasons for the R600's delay. And then you started pouting.

 

[sandorski]

meh, this thread should be filled with 0/10-10/10(however one feels about the OP) and not discussion.

Sorry, you have become the Poster Boy for why one should never wait for the next Gen. Just buy what you need when you need it and leave your mental health intact.

 

[StopSign]

Fanboys...when will they learn?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Well, in light of this news, looks like there is going to be a surge in G80 sales now.
ATI wants desperately to best G80 no doubt, but when it effects your ability to get a product to market, it's time to rethink what's more important. Which is, "Do we try to get our product out there to our faithful who have been waiting to buy it? Or do we keep re-spinning our silicon so we can get the clocks we need to beat G80?"

Remember the X1800 though? We all thought it couldn't get the clock speeds ATI intended for a long time, until it was leaked that it was a design issue with a metal layer of some sort. Took them 9 months to find it. Wonder what they missed this time around.

I hope they release something sooner than later, that is for sure.

You're going on complete assumption saying there's something wrong with the R600 or that it's slower than the G80. It could just as easily be a GDDR4 supply problem. Or possibly GPU production wasn't able to ramp up quickly enough to give an adequate supply for the previously projected release date and AMD wants to ensure a hard launch. We may never know the true reason for the delay.

I know Creig. Anything other than R600 has something wrong with it to let something like this happen. In no way shape or form does the R600 have anything to do with R600's tardiness here. It's everyone else's fault. I agree with you.

Talk about a lack of reading comprehension... :disgust: Take a step back and look our posts again keys.

In your first post, you stated "it was a design issue with a metal layer of some sort. Took them 9 months to find it. Wonder what they missed this time around" as if you had some sort of concrete proof that ATI goofed up once again, this time with the R600. There's no "might have", "could have" or "maybe" in there. I'd like to see some proof from you backing up your assertion that the R600's delay is ATI's fault.

My reply was simply pointing out that, with the current lack of any evidence, there could be any number of reasons for the R600's delay. And then you started pouting.

There you go, just loving to argue over nothing. You act as if I said something as if it were written in stone. Do I have that effect on you? Yes, there are any number of reasons R600 is very late. I listed what I thought could be ONE of those reasons. I didn't realize that in doing so, I had to word it exactly so you wouldn't take it out of context, something you have become infamous for. Just do me a favor and zip it.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Creig
I'd like to see some proof from you backing up your assertion that the R600's delay is ATI's fault.

My reply was simply pointing out that, with the current lack of any evidence, there could be any number of reasons for the R600's delay.

FACT the r600 delay IS ATi's *fault*

who else, god's fault ... the weather?

:roll:


if it was someone else's "fault", we'd know by know

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
There you go, just loving to argue over nothing. You act as if I said something as if it were written in stone. Do I have that effect on you? Yes, there are any number of reasons R600 is very late. I listed what I thought could be ONE of those reasons. I didn't realize that in doing so, I had to word it exactly so you wouldn't take it out of context, something you have become infamous for. Just do me a favor and zip it.

I took nothing out of context, keys. You stated unequivocally that it was ATI's fault through faulty engineering that the R600 has been delayed without any proof whatsoever to back yourself up. As if we should just simply take your word for it. I'm not saying it's not possible, just that I haven't read any proof that this is the case. If you have some evidence you'd like to share proving yourself correct by all means, please enlighten me. But ff you don't like being called out for making unproven statements, then don't do it. Otherwise, you may as well resign yourself to the fact that people WILL correct you.

 

[apoppin]

so you're being corrected right now Creig ...

R600's delay IS ATi's ... now, AMD's "fault"

both unequivocally and undeniably

and they are taking responsibility for their delay

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Creig
I'd like to see some proof from you backing up your assertion that the R600's delay is ATI's fault.

My reply was simply pointing out that, with the current lack of any evidence, there could be any number of reasons for the R600's delay.

FACT the r600 delay IS ATi's *fault*

who else, god's fault ... the weather?

:roll:


if it was someone else's "fault", we'd know by know

Link showing that it was faulty engineering that caused the delay, please?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Creig
I'd like to see some proof from you backing up your assertion that the R600's delay is ATI's fault.

My reply was simply pointing out that, with the current lack of any evidence, there could be any number of reasons for the R600's delay.

FACT the r600 delay IS ATi's *fault*

who else, god's fault ... the weather?

:roll:


if it was someone else's "fault", we'd know by know

Link showing that it was faulty engineering that caused the delay, please?

why ? who said anything about "faulty engineering" ?


we are discussing *fault*

look it up if you aren't sure what it means

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: apoppin
why ? who said anything about "faulty engineering" ?


we are discussing *fault*

look it up if you aren't sure what it means

When I said "fault", I was refering to keys's statement of "that it was a design issue with a metal layer of some sort. Took them 9 months to find it. Wonder what they missed this time around".

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: apoppin
why ? who said anything about "faulty engineering" ?


we are discussing *fault*

look it up if you aren't sure what it means

When I said "fault", I was refering to keys's statement of "that it was a design issue with a metal layer of some sort. Took them 9 months to find it. Wonder what they missed this time around".

all we know for *certain* is that r600 ... originally scheduled with much fanfare is *delayed* with no certain date given other than the nebulous Q2

that delay is AMD/ATi's fault ... i just wanted to make sure you acknowledged this fact

and it appears - by using *logic* - that it is a *biggie* ... or they would keep the launch date ... or at the very least ... reschedule it IF they could

most "biggies" in the past were silicon issues

we heard of no major earthquakes ... RAM supply is good ... TSMC didn't burn down

what do *you* think it might be ?


whose *fault* is it ?

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Creig
You stated unequivocally that it was ATI's fault through faulty engineering that the R600 has been delayed without any proof whatsoever to back yourself up.

Proof is in the pudding. Looks around for R600. Waits. Whistles. Waits another 3 months. :roll:

Unless you're buying into ATI/AMD's press release citing the delay for "strategic" reasons, the only possible answer is faulty engineering. Low performance, low yields, low clock speeds all point to faulty engineering. There's nothing strategic about delaying a delayed launch, they're delaying because the R600 silicon they've got right now runs like a big fat lemon.