I've been traveling for over a month now... make it stop

[TridenT]

5+ months of job searching, boys. No fruit!

My biggest issue is the lack of responses to my resume. Sure, I get some. It is still ~10% overall. It's not enough though because I can't find enough jobs to apply for these days. It's very very very difficult.

Anyway, whatever. Life sucks. May as well drive off a cliff into the grand canyon. At least I can avoid having to renew my tags that way. (I can't actually renew them now though because I'm out of state and my cars registered address is now invalid)

 

[PricklyPete]

Wow...slow down on the self pity. You say you want to be a software engineer? Spend your days coding. Pick an area/language/framework (for instance android apps) and start plugging away. Having experience opens doors even if it is just a few simple apps.

 

[TridenT]

Wow...slow down on the self pity. You say you want to be a software engineer? Spend your days coding. Pick an area/language/framework (for instance android apps) and start plugging away. Having experience opens doors even if it is just a few simple apps.

I list three projects on my resume. One is a web app, one is a monte carlo simulation of a major sport, and the other is me contributing to a very large and significant open source math software system. If that isn't enough in quality or variety then I cannot hope to possibly get a job based off projects. As well, I have no interest AT ALL in doing projects. I'm absolutely burnt out on meaningless coding projects that do not pay my bills.

I'm pretty sure employers want internships or more software job experience. Specifically, internships from "the big 4" companies like Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, Twitter, Palantir, Intel, Google, etc.

 

[XavierMace]

5+ months of job searching, boys. No fruit!

My biggest issue is the lack of responses to my resume. Sure, I get some. It is still ~10% overall. It's not enough though because I can't find enough jobs to apply for these days. It's very very very difficult.

But wait?

I'm going to be doing software development. I'm hardly struggling to find jobs in any city. (If I even need to be living in the city that I am being employed from...)

You were saying?

You might want to re-evaluate your mindset regarding your job market.

 

[TridenT]

But wait?



You were saying?

You might want to re-evaluate your mindset regarding your job market.

In the past it wasn't a large issue for the whole country. Now it is. See it goes like this: There are a lot of companies -> You apply for jobs at them -> NOW YOU CAN'T APPLY TO THAT COMPANY AGAIN FOR 6+ MONTHS

 

[Capt Caveman]

In the past it wasn't a large issue for the whole country. Now it is. See it goes like this: There are a lot of companies -> You apply for jobs at them -> NOW YOU CAN'T APPLY TO THAT COMPANY AGAIN FOR 6+ MONTHS

That's because you're doing it wrong.

Oh, all of your work in your field is going to be project based.

Have fun!

 

[TridenT]

That's because you're doing it wrong.

Oh, all of your work in your field is going to be project based.

Have fun!

Projects during software engineer job hunting conversations colloquially mean non-work related projects.

Don't be a semantics jackass on top of the rest of your idiocy.

 

[pete6032]

That's because you're doing it wrong.

Oh, all of your work in your field is going to be project based.

Have fun!

My job I have now is is very similar to what I was doing for classes in grad school. I was worried I wouldn't like it because school was a drag for me. Amazing what getting paid to work does though as I thoroughly enjoy my job.

 

[purbeast0]

sounds like your resume sucks.

also if it were me, and i didn't have a job for 5 fucking months, i would have cranked out quite a few mobile apps in that period of time to make some income.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Projects during software engineer job hunting conversations colloquially mean non-work related projects.

Don't be a semantics jackass on top of the rest of your idiocy.

You're the one that doesn't know how to get a job. And obviously the projects you're involved with currently aren't leading to networking opportunities that could lead to a possible job and thus are the wrong types of projects you should be involved in, so yes, you're an idiot.

Thru out school and now, individuals have given you advice and tried to lower your lofty expectations. And you still don't listen, cry more.

 

[z1ggy]

You're probably better off pan handling.

 

[LevelSea]

You're probably better off pan handling.

Or sucking dong under the bridge.

 

[XavierMace]

"In the past". That quote was from 6 months ago. I'm not aware of any massive change in the software development market in that time. Hell, I still get emails and phone calls every couple of weeks from recruiters needing developers purely because I took programming back in my school days.

There's 36 listings on Monster for .NET developers alone within 20 miles of my zip code. 194 listings for Software Engineer. 25 Java Engineers. Didn't even bother to check Dice. My current employer has 24 current job postings for developers.

I'm not trying to be cruel, but the job market or your resume (in and of itself) isn't the problem. I'm going off memory from when you previously posted a sample of your resume, feel free to repost it if you don't feel this is accurate.

You have very limited experience but give the distinct impression you expect top tier (senior) pay. 3 projects doesn't mean squat. I can truthfully say I've been involved in half a dozen or more and I'm not even a developer. I'm not trying to degrade what your contributions may have been. You might have done 99% of the work for all I know. How long have you been employed as a software developer? That's what matters.

While I agree the no-reapplying for 6 months policy can be frustrating, that's rarely the problem. If that policy is an "issue" that means you've already applied. You either got an offer the first time or didn't.

If you did and turned it down, personally I'm not going to waste my time going through that again with you unless I'm really, really desperate or if you've got an ungodly good resume/history (you don't).

If you didn't then how far did you get? Did you get an interview? If you did, then the resume isn't the problem. You say you've gotten some responses. Elaborate. Did you get interviews? Did you get offers? How many have you applied to?

In my 10+ years of IT, I've seen a LOT of resumes and talked to a lot of people looking for IT jobs. Most of the people I've seen that talk like you are people fresh out of college thinking that new degree instantly entitles them to a $100k/yr position with a senior title. For example, at my current company we recently had an opening for a Senior Network Security Engineer. The amount of responses we got from people with zero experience, just a CCNA (not even a CCNA Security half the time) was hilarious.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

You're the one that doesn't know how to get a job. And obviously the projects you're involved with currently aren't leading to networking opportunities that could lead to a possible job and thus are the wrong types of projects you should be involved in, so yes, you're an idiot.

Thru out school and now, individuals have given you advice and tried to lower your lofty expectations. And you still don't listen, cry more.

This.

TridenT, you're the one who once bragged you'd easily land an $80K/yr job out of school. We all told you at the time you were full of it and needed to adjust your expectations. There are software engineering jobs everywhere so I don't know what your specific issue is, but I'd recommend maybe trying to do a contract or something of that nature to get valuable experience.

 

[TridenT]

You're the one that doesn't know how to get a job. And obviously the projects you're involved with currently aren't leading to networking opportunities that could lead to a possible job and thus are the wrong types of projects you should be involved in, so yes, you're an idiot.

Thru out school and now, individuals have given you advice and tried to lower your lofty expectations. And you still don't listen, cry more.

It's not that I don't know how to get a job, it's that I cannot get one with what I have. Networking doesn't do shit if you don't have what employers seek. (Internships at big reputable companies or lots of job experience (preferably also at notable companies))

Projects don't mean shit. I've told employers what I've done and they've said that sounds impressive... but they don't give a shit. They want job and internship experience.

 

[vi edit]

If you didn't pull some sort of internship at a brand name employer while in school good luck getting in there fresh out. Time to start facing the reality that most other people have to do. That's taking an entry level job and working your way up. Hospitals are looking for programmers on a daily basis. Bonus points if you are heavy on analytic as their entire reimbursement model is going off of statistics and outcomes. They need programmers to start digging around their dozens of numerous systems and discovering how that data is structured and pull it back out to a central warehouse to start mining.

Plus you have decision support models population management analytics. Tons of opportunities.

No it's not going to have the resume appeal of a Google or Microsoft. But it's going to pay you a good $50,000-$75,000 a year up front depending on location and you can take that experience after a few years and go consulting afterwards for 2x to 3x that.

 

[z1ggy]

It's not that I don't know how to get a job, it's that I cannot get one with what I have. Networking doesn't do shit if you don't have what employers seek. (Internships at big reputable companies or lots of job experience (preferably also at notable companies))

Projects don't mean shit. I've told employers what I've done and they've said that sounds impressive... but they don't give a shit. They want job and internship experience.

You mean projects outside of actual work? And they probably would care (if that's the case) if it was a project where the work involved or outcome of it was similar to their business. I think that's probably unique to the software and development field... I mean, if you're really good at making programs that would directly benefit them, why would a good employer care if you worked a few years at some random company?

Also, have you tried applying to entry level jobs? To me, sounds like you're essentially homeless, and desperate. Beggars can't be choosers. Yes it's less money, but it will get that experience that you'd need to be more marketable elsewhere.

 

[purbeast0]

You mean projects outside of actual work? And they probably would care (if that's the case) if it was a project where the work involved or outcome of it was similar to their business. I think that's probably unique to the software and development field... I mean, if you're really good at making programs that would directly benefit them, why would a good employer care if you worked a few years at some random company?

Also, have you tried applying to entry level jobs? To me, sounds like you're essentially homeless, and desperate. Beggars can't be choosers. Yes it's less money, but it will get that experience that you'd need to be more marketable elsewhere.

if you are working on your own projects outside of work, it also shows that you like to learn and be independent and don't need someone hand holding you. it shows that you have a drive to continue learning and better yourself.

it also can mean you are keeping up with newer technology and the industry in general.

i have made about 7 or 8 mobile applications that are out on the play/itunes store right now. 1 of them is a game using a 2d engine. right now i'm working on an online multiplayer 3d game in another engine.

regardless of what my next endeavor is, if i have stuff like that on my resume, the employer will see that i can learn and figure out stuff on my own, and they can even go and download my apps/games and take a look at them. you think that wouldn't have any benefit on my resume over someone who has similar experience as me? of course it would, even if i wasn't going to be doing any mobile development at the new place.

(and not talking to you ziggy specifically, just in general)

op just sounds lazy and doesn't want to take any advice from people who have been there done that. i haven't gone 6 months without a job (employeed by someone else) since i was 14. hell, i probably haven't gone more than 6 months without any kind of work, if you want to include baby sitting, raking leaves, shoveling driveways, selling lemonade on the corner, etc, since i was like 9.

 

[TridenT]

"In the past". That quote was from 6 months ago. I'm not aware of any massive change in the software development market in that time. Hell, I still get emails and phone calls every couple of weeks from recruiters needing developers purely because I took programming back in my school days.

There's 36 listings on Monster for .NET developers alone within 20 miles of my zip code. 194 listings for Software Engineer. 25 Java Engineers. Didn't even bother to check Dice. My current employer has 24 current job postings for developers.

I'm not trying to be cruel, but the job market or your resume (in and of itself) isn't the problem. I'm going off memory from when you previously posted a sample of your resume, feel free to repost it if you don't feel this is accurate.

You have very limited experience but give the distinct impression you expect top tier (senior) pay. 3 projects doesn't mean squat. I can truthfully say I've been involved in half a dozen or more and I'm not even a developer. I'm not trying to degrade what your contributions may have been. You might have done 99% of the work for all I know. How long have you been employed as a software developer? That's what matters.

While I agree the no-reapplying for 6 months policy can be frustrating, that's rarely the problem. If that policy is an "issue" that means you've already applied. You either got an offer the first time or didn't.

If you did and turned it down, personally I'm not going to waste my time going through that again with you unless I'm really, really desperate or if you've got an ungodly good resume/history (you don't).

If you didn't then how far did you get? Did you get an interview? If you did, then the resume isn't the problem. You say you've gotten some responses. Elaborate. Did you get interviews? Did you get offers? How many have you applied to?

In my 10+ years of IT, I've seen a LOT of resumes and talked to a lot of people looking for IT jobs. Most of the people I've seen that talk like you are people fresh out of college thinking that new degree instantly entitles them to a $100k/yr position with a senior title. For example, at my current company we recently had an opening for a Senior Network Security Engineer. The amount of responses we got from people with zero experience, just a CCNA (not even a CCNA Security half the time) was hilarious.

My phrasing was off. I meant "in the past" for me. As in, when I applied in the past it wasn't an issue. It is now because I've applied to too many companies and don't have a large enough pool to constantly apply for 100+ jobs a week to. (Not like I could even find 100 jobs to apply to in a week anyway)

Just because there are listings doesn't mean you should apply for them. 95% of those that are relevant listings to software development are senior listings. The remaining 4% use technology stacks I don't have any job experience with AND want someone with that experience. The remaining 1% are what I apply for and have applied for. (I have applied to over 50 jobs in SF)

The amount of interviews I've gotten from the 150+ companies I've applied to across the USA come down to about 12 phone interviews. (not including some repeats) Most of the time I don't get to the technical interview because they find I am a poor match for whatever reason. The remaining I get a technical interview and it goes poorly because I am very slow at solving coding challenges. I've done lots of coding problems online through places like hackerrank, the leetcode website, CTCI, or whatever but it doesn't matter. I have a hard time solving problems I have never seen in < 10 minutes and putting down perfect executable code that works with all test cases. That's what they want to see and I can't deliver that. I can solve the problems fine with time and never get stuck but I am slow at implementation. It isn't a matter of, "Oh, well, I have no idea how to solve that" and then get stuck. It's like, "I know how to solve this and here's how. However, implementing it in code is going to take me some time." That's where the issue comes in. Just implementing the actual theory is what takes too long.

 

[Squeetard]

ITT, OP hates everything and everybody. Wonders why he can't find a job.

Do you open your interview with "you better pay me lots to live in this shithole"?

 

[Capt Caveman]

It's not that I don't know how to get a job, it's that I cannot get one with what I have. Networking doesn't do shit if you don't have what employers seek. (Internships at big reputable companies or lots of job experience (preferably also at notable companies))

Projects don't mean shit. I've told employers what I've done and they've said that sounds impressive... but they don't give a shit. They want job and internship experience.

You really don't get it. Why aren't you hitting up your local university and finding a start-up that needs someone with your skill set? You may be working for peanuts or nothing but it opens up a huge network thru the people on your project but the university and the numerous networking events that occur within there but you should also be attending all the networking events in your area.

You know I got one of my last jobs from my high school reunion. Found out a friend of mine was a recruiter at a company that I was interested in. I told him how I had submitted my resume in the past but never got a response. He told me to friend him on FB and send him my resume. He took my resume up to the hiring manager, I was brought in the following week to interview and received a job offer the week after that.

As others have said, you need to be looking for an entry level position and need to network to meet individuals that might be able to assist you in your search.

 

[XavierMace]

What technology are you proficient in?

 

[TridenT]

If you didn't pull some sort of internship at a brand name employer while in school good luck getting in there fresh out. Time to start facing the reality that most other people have to do. That's taking an entry level job and working your way up. Hospitals are looking for programmers on a daily basis. Bonus points if you are heavy on analytic as their entire reimbursement model is going off of statistics and outcomes. They need programmers to start digging around their dozens of numerous systems and discovering how that data is structured and pull it back out to a central warehouse to start mining.

Plus you have decision support models population management analytics. Tons of opportunities.

No it's not going to have the resume appeal of a Google or Microsoft. But it's going to pay you a good $50,000-$75,000 a year up front depending on location and you can take that experience after a few years and go consulting afterwards for 2x to 3x that.

I've looked around. It's not a large market or they do a poor job at advertising the positions. I'm pretty burnt out on the hospital environment and the kind of strung out people you have to work with. (My last 2 jobs were either in a hospital or working with physicians) But, whatever, I'll look at it a bit more.

You mean projects outside of actual work? And they probably would care (if that's the case) if it was a project where the work involved or outcome of it was similar to their business. I think that's probably unique to the software and development field... I mean, if you're really good at making programs that would directly benefit them, why would a good employer care if you worked a few years at some random company?

Also, have you tried applying to entry level jobs? To me, sounds like you're essentially homeless, and desperate. Beggars can't be choosers. Yes it's less money, but it will get that experience that you'd need to be more marketable elsewhere.

I'm only applying to entry level jobs... New grad, jr, associate, entry level... if they don't have that in the title then the amount of experience the jobs require is <3 years. Any job that says 3+ years I just avoid applying for and I am leery of 2+ years experience since that usually means they don't want a fresh grad even if they have significant software dev experience.

if you are working on your own projects outside of work, it also shows that you like to learn and be independent and don't need someone hand holding you. it shows that you have a drive to continue learning and better yourself.
blahblahblahblah

Just because you have done that doesn't mean it makes sense for everyone. Me creating a bunch of pointless "mobile apps" isn't going to be impressive. Right now, projects aren't the main issue (which you guys seem to be latching onto, as if they are my salvation). It's the lack of job/internship experience. (I have one software dev job; not 3) I understand that projects are about the only thing I can actively do but clearly they don't do much of anything. And, right now, it takes all my energy just to stay alive. I'm very bummed out where I am living right now. It's not like I have bounds of endless energy to apply towards projects that could do more to hurt my already devastated self. I've worked on a project the past few months but it doesn't matter. People don't view the source code. They rarely go to the repo and then they just go, "Yeah, looked at the repo but that was it. I didn't actually look at the code." They don't even look at the god damn website that the app runs on. You know why? THEY DON'T CARE. They go to the project to see how large it is. "Let's see, hmm over 100 commits... not that many. How many contr.. 1. How many forks/stars? 0, 0. Okay, do not care. No one cares."

Anytime I list projects on my resume, you know what happens? The response rate stays the same. If that isn't proof that people don't care (regardless of how fucking hyped I make that project sound like how it works on mobile devices, has an API that interfaces with iOS and Android apps, scales to hundreds of thousands of customers easily, blahblahblah...) then I don't know what is man.

Maybe if I sold 1,000,000 copies of TridenTgram at $2 a pop and was #1 on the app store then I'd be of notice but I'll never make that kind of impact. Nor do I have any ideas for apps on a mobile device that don't rely on some kind of web server. I'm not a mobile developer or have any experience developing for mobile. Most of the jobs I'm applying for are backend or full stack web development. (Or some variant on similar work) So, it would probably not even be relevant to them. "Oh you made a mobile app... well, we're really looking for [backend | full stack] web developers..."

Why would anyone hire me when they could easily get someone who has actually interned at FB (or the like) and worked on FB Messenger (or the like)?

 

[vi edit]

I've looked around. It's not a large market or they do a poor job at advertising the positions. I'm pretty burnt out on the hospital environment and the kind of strung out people you have to work with. (My last 2 jobs were either in a hospital or working with physicians) But, whatever, I'll look at it a bit more.

That right there pretty much guarantees you a phone interview in about any major city. Have you looked at university hospitals? These places are desperate to get programmers and the fact that you have hospital experience in the past is a slam dunk.

Is it going to be where you want to be? Probably not. But you have to start somewhere and get experience before you can start being selective.

 

[TridenT]

You really don't get it. Why aren't you hitting up your local university and finding a start-up that needs someone with your skill set? You may be working for peanuts or nothing but it opens up a huge network thru the people on your project but the university and the numerous networking events that occur within there but you should also be attending all the networking events in your area.

You know I got one of my last jobs from my high school reunion. Found out a friend of mine was a recruiter at a company that I was interested in. I told him how I had submitted my resume in the past but never got a response. He told me to friend him on FB and send him my resume. He took my resume up to the hiring manager, I was brought in the following week to interview and received a job offer the week after that.

As others have said, you need to be looking for an entry level position and need to network to meet individuals that might be able to assist you in your search.

I don't know anyone at any local university or even in this entire region. (SW, USA) I'm in a desert, man. They have a hard time getting water here, let alone making apps.

I don't know if "networking" with a startup (or whatever) in this region would get me a job elsewhere (SF, NYC, etc.) through networking. I don't think of Phoenix as being a connected region.

Maybe you've somehow landed that in the past but I find it to be far fetched and a lot of effort on a huge gamble (bordering on mega millions odds). That's assuming if I could even find something to begin with, which I have no idea how I'd manage that.

"Oh hey, ASU. I was uh.. yeah, I'm an unemployed software developer looking for some rich kids who are doing a startup... I'd work for free because I'm a little bitch who's hoping for networking opportunities outside of this region from that work I'd be doing. Know of anything?" (lol wtf?)