It looks like the TPP has passed

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Whew! Close call. Thought for a second that TFP had passed.

 

[Darwin333]

Why is the Iran nuclear agreement so fiercely fought in the court of public opinion, why is Planned Parenthood so fiercely fought in the court of public opinion, but not this?

Politicians manipulating the public into arguing over bullshit to keep them too busy to pay attention to the important shit.

 

[michal1980]

so does congress have to sign off on this? or was this fast tracked, and the only way to stop it is to vote against the deal?

So then Obama will veto, and no dems will have the balls to override, because its party over country.

We all know republicans will sell out for big corp.

But what will the party of the little guy do? My bet is that like always the dems will lie they are for the little guy, while selling them out.

 

[BoberFett]

Amazing how even when both parties do the same thing, the Republicans are doing it for the wrong reasons while the Democrats are doing it for the right reasons. Almost like caricatures.

Weird, isn't it?

 

[CountZero]

so does congress have to sign off on this? or was this fast tracked, and the only way to stop it is to vote against the deal?

So then Obama will veto, and no dems will have the balls to override, because its party over country.

We all know republicans will sell out for big corp.

But what will the party of the little guy do? My bet is that like always the dems will lie they are for the little guy, while selling them out.

Fast track passed so I believe only an up/down vote is allowed and nothing more. Dems held up fast track until the Assistance bill was also passed, but they missed the point as the biggest pain of TPP isn't the potential for job loss.

TPP an agreement by and for corporations, negotiated in secret. It has massive corporate giveaways (essentially giving multi-national corps power that trumps sovereign law) which, by the stereotype, would be a pro for Reps. It also has the MPAA/RIAA wishlist of IP controls which, by the stereotype, is a pro for Dems. Unless Reps hold it up because it smells of Obama I don't see this one failing to fly through with a simple majority.

It is posed as some kind of defense against China but IMO we are cutting off our nose to spite our face as a country and giving whatever it is corporations want in some desperate hope that this is what is best for everyone and not just a power play by said corporations.

 

[master_shake_]

politicians get a hard on with anything that says trade in the title....

it'll pass fast and easily.

 

[Jhhnn]

Why is the Iran nuclear agreement so fiercely fought in the court of public opinion, why is Planned Parenthood so fiercely fought in the court of public opinion, but not this?

There's no room for it, what with everything else- Obama's birth cert, Hillary's email, fast & furious, evil irs, threatened govt shutdowns & Ben-fucking-ghazi. There's plenty more bullshit where those came from, too.

Surely you understand.

 

[twjr]

As a citizen of New Zealand I can see our little place in the Pacific heading downhill once this goes through. Maybe we should take a leaf out of our Pacific Island brethren and have a coup.

 

[michal1980]

There's no room for it, what with everything else- Obama's birth cert, Hillary's email, fast & furious, evil irs, threatened govt shutdowns & Ben-fucking-ghazi. There's plenty more bullshit where those came from, too.

Surely you understand.

So as a liberal your ok with selling out american workers as long as your guy is doing it.

Because I dont see you protesting this move.

 

[Jhhnn]

So as a liberal your ok with selling out american workers as long as your guy is doing it.

Because I dont see you protesting this move.

I don't pretend to understand it.

You obviously don't need to understand, either, to have an opinion. If Obama's for it, you're against it, whatever it is.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I don't pretend to understand it.

You obviously don't need to understand, either, to have an opinion. If Obama's for it, you're against it, whatever it is.

I know trade deal after trade deal never really helps working people. Us and Japan and arguably Australia are the top earners in this agreement, I fail to see what kind of revenue is going to be made by the big economy countries.

 

[michal1980]

I don't pretend to understand it.

You obviously don't need to understand, either, to have an opinion. If Obama's for it, you're against it, whatever it is.

so your just ranting against republicans because thats what you do.

 

[Jhhnn]

so your just ranting against republicans because thats what you do.

I pointed out that Repubs flood the information channels & public consciousness with bullshit & gossip effectively stifling discussion of issues like this. I answered cubby's question.

 

[werepossum]

Weird, isn't it?

Yup, very weird. Lord knows Republicans have our share and more of warts, but thankfully finding a way to embrace our guys doing the same thing we decry their guys doing at the same time tends to be beyond us.

 

[cubby1223]

I pointed out that Repubs flood the information channels & public consciousness with bullshit & gossip effectively stifling discussion of issues like this. I answered cubby's question.

You didn't answer anything. All you speculated was the GOP dropped the ball on their opposition of this legislation. When in reality you missed the most obvious detail of this situation versus the rest... while not only are conservatives against TPP, the progressive left is against this trade agreement too. Bernie Sanders is against TPP. Unions are against TPP. And yet, the TPP is not a part of the public consciousness in the least. Seems like the perfect opportunity to oppose and knock the hated arch-nemesis known as Barack Obama down a few pegs, wouldn't you think? Awful lot of support can be pulled together. But oh, they just got too caught up in their opposition of everything else that their stupidness caused them not to recognize this perfect opportunity. Oh yes, that surely be the case. Because actual thinking is hard.

You are the flake I've always known Pleasure conversing with you once again.

 

[trenchfoot]

If only there could be a full and open discussion of the full text of the deal in an open session in Congress.

Sleight of hand back door/trap door hidden language wrapped in hidden agendas does not a good deal make.

I get it that a full and open discussion of the terms of the agreement can't happen until all conditions are agreed to and that all suspicions and vague language are ironed out.

But once that is out of the way, I really do hope the complete agreement is released to the public for perusal, and that there be open Congressional hearings before the agreement gets approved. The American people needs to have a say in this, as they are the ones being directly affected by this deal and certainly not any those well taken care of Congress folks who have our futures in their hands.

It's interesting to me that on the one hand, the Repubs would like nothing better than to deny Obama a chance at sticking another feather in his cap, yet this deal is something that satisfies much of their agenda in the area of protecting corporate interests, something that I believe will allow the Repubs to stamp their seal of approval on the deal.

But what I especially want to hear from Obama, the Democrat who by political pedigree and by his own words is supposed to be looking out for the interests and causes of the working class, is what features in the deal protects or enhances the creation of middle class jobs right here at home.

I need to hear from him specific details of how the deal will be good for the working stiffs who voted him into office and how the deal will give back to them what previous trade agreements took away, or at the very least, protect whatever working class jobs we have left.

In my mind, whatever he sells the middle class short on will fall on the shoulders of Hillary, and if she supports this deal despite how it may hurt the middle class even further, then Bernie Sanders will be my pick hands down.

 

[FerrelGeek]

It's like more like surprise butsex.

ftfy

 

[Jhhnn]

You didn't answer anything. All you speculated was the GOP dropped the ball on their opposition of this legislation. When in reality you missed the most obvious detail of this situation versus the rest... while not only are conservatives against TPP, the progressive left is against this trade agreement too. Bernie Sanders is against TPP. Unions are against TPP. And yet, the TPP is not a part of the public consciousness in the least. Seems like the perfect opportunity to oppose and knock the hated arch-nemesis known as Barack Obama down a few pegs, wouldn't you think? Awful lot of support can be pulled together. But oh, they just got too caught up in their opposition of everything else that their stupidness caused them not to recognize this perfect opportunity. Oh yes, that surely be the case. Because actual thinking is hard.

You are the flake I've always known Pleasure conversing with you once again.

You argue that Repubs should put Obama hate above their own greedy self interest. That hasn't happened yet nor likely will it ever. Better to do that in the other venues I mentioned, don't you think?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

TPP will pass because now it only needs a simple majority to pass. No filibusters allowed. Our only hope is people really evaluate the terms and severely take it apart. Even then it would still pass by a small margin of representatives in safe districts.
TPP is a strange beast unifies the mid to far left with the libertarians and even the hardcore conservatives.

 

[sm625]

Look at all these companies jack up the cost of certain medications 1000% or more. If we ever do get our heads out of our asses and put a stop to that crap, then it is possible these corporations may be able to use these new TPP provisions to sue the US taxpayer to reclaim the resulting lost profits. That's what TPP is all about. If any law is passed which affects corporate profits, they can sue for damages. It is patently absurd. But does anyone want to bet that this country will not pay trillions in such bogus claims before doing anything about it?

 

[master_shake_]

Look at all these companies jack up the cost of certain medications 1000% or more. If we ever do get our heads out of our asses and put a stop to that crap, then it is possible these corporations may be able to use these new TPP provisions to sue the US taxpayer to reclaim the resulting lost profits. That's what TPP is all about. If any law is passed which affects corporate profits, they can sue for damages. It is patently absurd. But does anyone want to bet that this country will not pay trillions in such bogus claims before doing anything about it?

this.


this is not a partisan issue this effects everyone equally.

corporate sovereignty is just the beginning.

 

[CountZero]

Look at all these companies jack up the cost of certain medications 1000% or more. If we ever do get our heads out of our asses and put a stop to that crap, then it is possible these corporations may be able to use these new TPP provisions to sue the US taxpayer to reclaim the resulting lost profits. That's what TPP is all about. If any law is passed which affects corporate profits, they can sue for damages. It is patently absurd. But does anyone want to bet that this country will not pay trillions in such bogus claims before doing anything about it?

This is it. While TPP has numerous items that are distasteful none is more damaging and damning than this.

It is in essence codifying a right to profit, a right that trumps every other right as there is nothing a country can do to work against it. It elevates corporate profits above national sovereignty.

If people pulled their collective heads out of the sand and spent even a moment discussing this the public backlash would likely be enormous. But they likely won't do it.

 

[norseamd]

Concerning corporate-state litigation there might be some restraints put in place but how much this article might just be another propaganda PR move I have not idea.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...corporate-impunity/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

 

[cbrunny]

Might not ratify in Canada. Might not even be constitutional in Canada.

 

[CountZero]

Concerning corporate-state litigation there might be some restraints put in place but how much this article might just be another propaganda PR move I have not idea.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...corporate-impunity/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Interesting. That they exclude tobacco companies from being able to sue for anti-smoking legislation shows exactly the problem at hand. We do not know today what things we will want to ban/restrict tomorrow.

IMO if you are excluding certain harmful industries from using a process it indicates the process itself is flawed. If you can not design a process that includes tobacco companies than such a process should not exist in any form. It is exceptionally short sighted.