It’s time to bring down more statues

[Veliko]

Tru dat.

But I don't think they have the right to choose for those yet to come. And again I think a physical connection to the past from a physical item from history is irreplaceable and significant for people. Much more so than reading a book. I've already posted arguments and examples of my thinking which covers what you've said so I'll leave it at that.

The people who build the statue in the first place don't have the right to choose for those yet to come.

 

[feralkid]

Just so everyone is clear on this:

This is Former President Andrew Jackson, not Confederate General Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson.

This statue is of Andrew "Old Hickory" , "the Hero of New Orleans", also referred to as "Genocidal Maniac" Jackson (the guy on the $20 bill), who signed the Indian removal act of 1830, leading to the 'Trail of Tears'.

 

[richaron]

The people who build the statue in the first place don't have the right to choose for those yet to come.

They chose what to display and it reflects the culture of the time. So it's historically significant.

Destroying a statue is not the same.

 

[Veliko]

They chose what to display and it reflects the culture of the time. So it's historically significant.

Destroying a statue is not the same.

In terms of reflecting the culture of the time, it's exactly the same.

 

[WelshBloke]

They should absolutely take down the statue of Andrew Jackson in New Orleans...and then immediately surrender the city to the British.

What makes you think we want it?!

 

[theeedude]

We are going to have to carve Washington’s face out of Mt Rushmore by the end of it. This doesn’t heal race relations. I can understand not wanting to glorify astrocities of our past but trying to scrub it clean isn’t the way to go either. Jackson Square is a hallmark of NO, it would be a travesty to take it down.

People of NO can decide that.

 

[richaron]

In terms of reflecting the culture of the time, it's exactly the same.

It's not even close.

One is preserving the culture of a period to history, and the other is removing that icon of history to suit the current culture.

 

[Veliko]

It's not even close.

One is preserving the culture of a period to history, and the other is removing that icon of history to suit the current culture.

The people who build it in the first place are only doing so because it suits their current culture.

The desire to build a statue is almost identical to the motive for removing it.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Just so everyone is clear on this:

This is Former President Andrew Jackson, not Confederate General Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson.

This statue is of Andrew "Old Hickory" also referred to as "Genocidal Maniac" Jackson (the guy on the $20 bill), who signed the Indian removal act of 1830, leading to the 'Trail of Tears'.

If only there was some historical context to erecting a statue in honor of Andrew Jackson in New Orleans.

 

[Starbuck1975]

People of NO can decide that.

Democratically and lawfully or going the ISIS route?

 

[Starbuck1975]

What makes you think we want it?!

Why wouldn’t you!!! It’s one of the few American cities with any sense of culture or historical interest.

 

[richaron]

The people who build it in the first place are only doing so because it suits their current culture.

The desire to build a statue is almost identical to the motive for removing it.

Destruction of historical items is not the same as the creation of items for historical purposes.

I understand why you think their motives might be the same, and their motives might indeed be similar, but your conclusions are just wrong.

 

[Veliko]

Destruction of historical items is not the same as the creation of items for historical purposes.

I understand why you think their motives might be the same, and their motives might indeed be similar, but your conclusions are just wrong.

Again, there is nothing inherently noble or good about erecting a statue.

 

[theeedude]

Democratically and lawfully or going the ISIS route?

Democratically of course. Lawfully if their local democracy is not preempted from the state house. But since state government would never force a 60% black city to house a statue of a racist slaver, we don't have to worry about that.

 

[feralkid]

If only there was some historical context to erecting a statue in honor of Andrew Jackson in New Orleans.

It would certainly help the conversation; however, the fact that it became intertwined with the ongoing removal of Civil War statues in the city muddied things greatly.



edit: I added another reference in my previous post to strengthen the point.

 

[Starbuck1975]

It would certainly help the conversation; however, the fact that it became intertwined with the ongoing removal of Civil War statues in the city muddied things greatly.

Hence my general apprehension towards movements driven and fueled by social media. People very quickly lose perspective.

 

[feralkid]

Hence my general apprehension towards movements driven and fueled by social media. People very quickly lose perspective.

Wut? You have no faith in the judgement of the mob? The wisdom of group-think?

 

[WelshBloke]

Why wouldn’t you!!! It’s one of the few American cities with any sense of culture or historical interest.

We're OK for culture and history thanks.

 

[theeedude]

10 dollars extra for every hundred lashes given to a runaway slave? Such a generous man should certainly have a statue in a 60% black city, amirite?

 

[richaron]

Again, there is nothing inherently noble or good about erecting a statue.

I never claimed otherwise... In fact I agreed with you about this. So I guess you just wanted the last word?

 

[WelshBloke]

Just curious as to how the US would deal with this sort of statue!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture...oat-statue-arrives-in-the-British-Museum.html

Caution! NSFW!

 

[richaron]

10 dollars extra for every hundred lashes given to a runaway slave? Such a generous man should certainly have a statue in a 60% black city, amirite?

Totally. I didn't even know that was a thing. A statue with this on the plaque can remind people.

 

[pmv]

They should absolutely take down the statue of Andrew Jackson in New Orleans...and then immediately surrender the city to the British.

Would be more appropriate to to give it to the French. If not for the British you'd all be speaking French now anyway. Plus part of the motivation for the revolution was the desire not to have to pay the bill for the British fighting the French (and the Indians) for your benefit.

Museums wouldn’t be very interesting and would sit mostly empty if we applied this standard.

So compromise and move the statues into museums, where they can be presented with context, instead of having them lord it over public space.

 

[UglyCasanova]

People of NO can decide that.

No the mayor of NO takes it upon himself to decide that. It was a political stunt to get him into the national spotlight, really is as simple as that.

 

[feralkid]

Just curious as to how the US would deal with this sort of statue!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture...oat-statue-arrives-in-the-British-Museum.html

Caution! NSFW!

Was Pan a slave owner?