israel levels an entire city within an hour

[GrGr]

I wonder if in retrospect Hamas regrets lobbing those initial rockets...

What 'initial' rockets? Hamas fired the rockets AFTER Israel earlier this summer bombed Gaza about 100 times, had one military incursion and killed a few Hamas members... Yet all we hear is how Hamas and the Palestinians are evil aggressors and child killers, even if Netanyahu and the Isreali police knew Hamas had nothing to do with the deaths of the three Israeli kids... Go figure.

It is obvious who the real child killers are. Hamas has killed nearly ONLY soldiers in this fight. Israel has ON PURPOSE bombed children and especially children they knew were taking cover under UN protection.

 

[Borealis7]

Hamas has killed nearly ONLY soldiers in this fight.

such bullshit argument. Hamas has shot 2000 missiles and mortars at civlian population exclusively. each one of those missiles could have been a fatality on the israeli side if not for the iron dome.
just because people didn't die doesn't mean they werent shot at. plus, Hamas just killed 30 palestinians during the cease-fire, so your argument is invalid.

Israel has ON PURPOSE bombed children and especially children they knew were taking cover under UN protection.

another bullshit argument. show me proof that an israeli general ordered the bombing of children. let me save you some time - you won't find it.
what you will find is an advance warning before bombing a building, and hamas ordering the civilians to stay put and die 'for the resistance'.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Hamas has killed nearly ONLY soldiers in this fight. Israel has ON PURPOSE bombed children and especially children they knew were taking cover under UN protection.

That's total BS and you know it.....
You also know there were no children under UN protection that's a huge crock.....

Hamas doesn`t care if they kill Israeli citizens...but they don`t care if Palestinian civilians die...for Hamas until recently having Palestinians die has been a huge public relations coup for Hamas!! To Hamas that is a win, win!!

It has been said that Israel is using a missile defense system to protect its citizens and Hamas is using it`s citizens to protect it`s missiles!

If Hamas had the opportunity or the weapons they would kill the maximum number Israeli`s they could....
Yet Israel has the opportunity to kill way more people and they do not.....

 

[Nebor]

What 'initial' rockets? Hamas fired the rockets AFTER Israel earlier this summer bombed Gaza about 100 times, had one military incursion and killed a few Hamas members... Yet all we hear is how Hamas and the Palestinians are evil aggressors and child killers, even if Netanyahu and the Isreali police knew Hamas had nothing to do with the deaths of the three Israeli kids... Go figure.

It is obvious who the real child killers are. Hamas has killed nearly ONLY soldiers in this fight. Israel has ON PURPOSE bombed children and especially children they knew were taking cover under UN protection.

Can you explain to me what Israel gains by purposely bombing children? What's the military or political advantage there?

 

[zanejohnson]

Can you explain to me what Israel gains by purposely bombing children? What's the military or political advantage there?

to ensure more rockets are fired..

 

[Borealis7]

It is obvious who the real child killers are.

Yup.
https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hph...=8d8fafa5feb42bb0891a1a69a72fddf9&oe=5442203A

 

[fskimospy]

such bullshit argument. Hamas has shot 2000 missiles and mortars at civlian population exclusively. each one of those missiles could have been a fatality on the israeli side if not for the iron dome.
just because people didn't die doesn't mean they werent shot at. plus, Hamas just killed 30 palestinians during the cease-fire, so your argument is invalid.


another bullshit argument. show me proof that an israeli general ordered the bombing of children. let me save you some time - you won't find it.
what you will find is an advance warning before bombing a building, and hamas ordering the civilians to stay put and die 'for the resistance'.

I like how you seem to think that air strikes into densely populated civilian areas are ok because you dropped leaflets first.

You complain about them shooting rockets at you. This makes sense! Nobody likes rockets being shot at them. The thing is, what you are doing GUARANTEES more rockets will be shot at you in the future. When people are occupied and forced into ghettos, they fight back. That's the price you pay for occupying and oppressing a group of people like that. Don't like it? Stop doing it.

Nobody is forcing you to occupy territory you have no legal right to and nobody is forcing you to build settlements that violate the Geneva Convention. These are your choices. Accept the consequences.

 

[Raizinman]

Fighting continued and escalated in Gaza today. Both sides seemed to claim hits along with claiming civilians being killed or hurt.

Israel could easily wipe Gaza off the map in less than 10 minutes if it wanted, but instead, due to world public pressure, it will slowly increase its force in Gaza.

At some point, if you kick a giant enough times, you will feel his might.

 

[fskimospy]

Fighting continued and escalated in Gaza today. Both sides seemed to claim hits along with claiming civilians being killed or hurt.

Israel could easily wipe Gaza off the map in less than 10 minutes if it wanted, but instead, due to world public pressure, it will slowly increase its force in Gaza.

At some point, if you kick a giant enough times, you will feel his might.

You seem to be arguing that the only thing stopping Israel from committing genocide is world opinion. I hope you see the sad irony in that.

If someone was occupying your home town, imprisoning you and your family there, killing people, etc, when would you stop fighting against it? The answer for most people is 'never'.

 

[IronWing]

The US condemns Israeli shelling of school and immediately hands Israel more ammo.

 

[Borealis7]

Nobody is forcing you to occupy territory you have no legal right to and nobody is forcing you to build settlements that violate the Geneva Convention. These are your choices. Accept the consequences.

the Gaza strip is not occupied since 2006. for 6 years there has been exactly 1 Israeli soldeir in Gaza - the kidnapped Gilad Shalit.
likewise, there are no settlements in Gaza since that time. so what are they fighting for?

there are settlements in the West Bank. how many wars have been there since 2006?

i'll let you in on the "big secret": Hamas wants the entire land for the Palestinians, Sea to Jordan River, with no Jews in between.

" Khaled Meshal, the political leader of Hamas, gave a defiant speech on Saturday, vowing to build an Islamic Palestinian state on all the land of Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip."
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/w...iversary-celebration.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[fskimospy]

the Gaza strip is not occupied since 2006. for 6 years there has been exactly 1 Israeli soldeir in Gaza - the kidnapped Gilad Shalit.
likewise, there are no settlements in Gaza since that time. so what are they fighting for?

Sorry, but the UN disagrees. The international community still considers Gaza to be occupied territory no matter how much Israel tells itself that it isn't.

I do find it odd that you really want to make the argument of "we aren't occupying Gaza anymore, we're now just repeatedly invading our neighbors", though.

there are settlements in the West Bank. how many wars have been there since 2006?

Continuing settlement activity is not only a violation of the Geneva Conventions but it is one of the biggest barriers to any actual peace settlement. You only empower Hamas with such behavior. Palestinians look at those who tried to engage peacefully with Israel and saw what they got: continued Israeli settlement of their territory. That's the kind of behavior that makes people think that maybe Hamas was right after all.

Also, it's sad that you are saying "we've gone 8 whole years without a war in the West Bank" is supposed to be convincing.

i'll let you in on the "big secret": Hamas wants the entire land for the Palestinians, Sea to Jordan River, with no Jews in between.

" Khaled Meshal, the political leader of Hamas, gave a defiant speech on Saturday, vowing to build an Islamic Palestinian state on all the land of Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip."
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/w...iversary-celebration.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

I'll let you in on the "big secret": Israel wants the same thing, just reversed.

 

[Borealis7]

I'll let you in on the "big secret": Israel wants the same thing, just reversed.

the burden of proof is on you, i gave you a quote from 2012. i'm waiting.

 

[fskimospy]

the burden of proof is on you, i gave you a quote from 2012. i'm waiting.

I give you Israel's actions over the last half century or so.

 

[QuantumPion]

Where's the UN condemnation of brainwashing children to commit murder and genocide?

 

[fskimospy]

Where's the UN condemnation of brainwashing children to commit murder and genocide?

The UN condemns Hamas all the time. Most rational people understand that what Hamas has done doesn't excuse what Israel is doing.

 

[Borealis7]

I give you Israel's actions over the last half century or so.

you know these actions are consequences of 5 wars, all of which the arabs lost, and israel won lands in, only to give it back in peace agreements, right?

Egyptian President Sadat understood that, and got Sinai back. (1982)
i still don't see any Israeli leader outright calling for the death of all palestinians.

from 1993 to 2010 almost all Israel Prime Ministers were willing to give back lands for peace! one of them even gave back land unilaterally without any agreement (Ariel Sharon pulled out of Gaza) and what did Israel get in return? Hamas firing rockets at them. same deal with the northern border, where Hezbollah fires rockets every once in a while, but a lot less since the 2nd lebanon war (2006).

1993 - Oslo agreements - the PA is created and given land.
1999 - Ehud Barak pulls out of lebanon.
2006 - Ariel Sharon dies before pulling out of Gaza, Ehud Olmert does it eventually.

so, no. what you are looking for cannot be inferred from Israel's actions.

 

[fskimospy]

you know these actions are consequences of 5 wars, all of which the arabs lost, and israel won lands in, only to give it back in peace agreements, right?

Sadat understood that, and got Sinai back.
i still don't see any leader outright calling for the death of all palestinians.

That land is not Israel's to 'give', as taking territory through armed conquest is a violation of international law and the UN charter.

from 2001 to 2010 all Israel Prime Ministers were willing to give back lands for peace! one of them even gave back land unilaterally without any agreement (Ariel Sharon pulled out of Gaza) and what did Israel get in retrun? Hamas firing rockets at them.

Israel gave back no land. I will repeat: Gaza is still considered occupied territory. Meanwhile, Israel continues to settle occupied territory in violation of the Geneva Conventions. Can you give me a reason why you appear to think it is okay for Israel to continually violate the Geneva Conventions in this manner?

 

[CitizenKain]

Can you explain to me what Israel gains by purposely bombing children? What's the military or political advantage there?

Because they like doing it.

That's right it is NOT ok....but if in dealing with Hamas innocent civilians get killed...I am okay with that...why? Because they elected Hamas.....just like we elected Obama...

See what I mean?

 

[QuantumPion]

taking territory through armed conquest is a violation of international law and the UN charter.

OK, what is the penalty/punishment/resolution for illegal armed conquest in violation of international law and the UN?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

That land is not Israel's to 'give', as taking territory through armed conquest is a violation of international law and the UN charter.

Israel gave back no land. I will repeat: Gaza is still considered occupied territory. Meanwhile, Israel continues to settle occupied territory in violation of the Geneva Conventions. Can you give me a reason why you appear to think it is okay for Israel to continually violate the Geneva Conventions in this manner?

Can you give me a reason why you appear to think it is okay for Hamas to continually violate numerous Geneva Conventions that are orders of magnitude worse than settling occupied territory?

 

[fskimospy]

OK, what is the penalty/punishment/resolution for illegal armed conquest in violation of international law and the UN?

It can be whatever the international community decides is appropriate.

I wonder if you would so stridently defend this kind of behavior if it were any other nation doing it. My pretty strong hunch is no.

 

[fskimospy]

Can you give me a reason why you appear to think it is okay for Hamas to continually violate numerous Geneva Conventions that are orders of magnitude worse than settling occupied territory?

I don't believe it's okay for Hamas to do this and even a cursory reading of my posts that mention Hamas would tell you that. This appears to be another use of the fairly common tactic by conservatives of "if you say what Israel is doing is bad that means you think Hamas is good". It should be fairly easy to understand why that's a failure of logic.

Can you give me a reason why you think that Hamas excuses Israel from being held to account for its numerous, continuing violations of the Geneva Conventions? Considering the body counts on both sides can you explain how you came to the conclusion that Hamas's actions are "orders of magnitude worse"?

 

[Nebor]

My solution to the conflict is:
Israel should give the Palestinians an ultimatum. Either surrender today or be bombed tomorrow. Anyone surrendering will be allowed safe passage into Israel proper or will be set up with documents to leave Israel. I’m sure Kerry will allow them into the US, heck everyone else is allowed in.

Those not leaving Gaza, will be bombed at the prescribed time. The bombing will be complete and totally leveling. Gaza will be bombed section by section, but allowing for anyone who wants out, to come out. Therefore, the people who stay, be it men, women, children, old folks, or whoever, are thus now categorized as combatants and fair game.

This should take care of dividing the Palestinians into who is for Israel and who is not.

This should take care of all the tunnel problems

This should take care of schools and hospitals hoarding arms

I base the above on my former service in the IDF.

I've seen this method attempted in Zabul, Afghanistan (with ANA artillery,) and to make a long story short, the bad guys with guns held the "innocent" (they were supporting the insurgency up to that point) people hostage and they all got hammered with about a hundred 122mm rounds from the D-30s, leveling their village and killing virtually everyone.

Since Hamas is clearly trying to win a PR campaign at the expense of Palestinian lives, I have to assume they would do the same thing in Gaza. Unfortunately the world media has Israel's hands tied behind their backs.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I don't believe it's okay for Hamas to do this and even a cursory reading of my posts that mention Hamas would tell you that. This appears to be another use of the fairly common tactic by conservatives of "if you say what Israel is doing is bad that means you think Hamas is good". It should be fairly easy to understand why that's a failure of logic."

I'm not using this logic, this is not relevent to anything I've said. Perhaps this comment is better directed towards those who actually use this particular "common tactic" instead.

Can you give me a reason why you think that Hamas excuses Israel from being held to account for its numerous, continuing violations of the Geneva Conventions? Considering the body counts on both sides can you explain how you came to the conclusion that Hamas's actions are "orders of magnitude worse"?

I didn't say that gross violations of the Geneva Conventions by Hamas excuses Israel from being held to account for its violations and even a cursory reading of my posts would tell you that. When I compare and weigh the violations on both sides, I see Hamas as the most egregious violator of the two.