Israel getting what it deserves

[Nefrodite]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Nefrodite
theres a difference between going after a CURRENT military target and going after an entire people because they are the enemy. after all, in all wars all civilians are potential military conscripts if the war lasts long enough. all civilians support the military structure. so that justifies genocide from the start according to palestinian thought. women and children, even though they don't fight on the front lines, they must die. these are people that would shoot the fetus inside a israeli womans belly if they could.

so full of hate

Hatred is the most poisonous human emotion. It blocks the capacity to empathise that lies at the heart of human association. It turns the object of the hatred into just that - an object. It robs the hater of his or her fundamental human quality - humanity. In so doing, it opens the door to the most callous and depraved acts that one human being can commit against another.

so full of moral relativism...

i am neither jewish or palestinian, or religious in any way. i do not hate, i do however see much hate from palestinians. enough to send suicide bombers after children. i see twisting of logic to justify palestinian inhumanity, i see wrong. i see an entire entire body of thought promoted by the palestinians and their warefare through justified genocide. i see wrong.



"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51) "The God will say: 'Jesus, son of Mary, did you ever say to mankind 'Worship me and my mother as gods besides God?' 'Glory to You, 'he will answer, 'how could I ever say that to which I have no right?" (Surah 5:114-)

 

[Slovin8]

They had been after that guy for years already and never could capture him. They could have send in marines, try and talk the Palestinian authorities into letting them in (can't use force against innocents, now can we?), and 2 days later when arriving at the appartment discover he moved and arranged the deaths of 50 more people?
Any innocent death is despicable, but in this case I understand why they chose for certainty.

You understand? Most Israelis acknowledge that it's a horrific mistake and you.... "understand".

The 3rd most powerful military in the world can only use OUR F-16s to get one guy who lives in a densly populated areas.

You don't prevent a massacre by commiting one.

You DON'T.

It just so happens that Hamas was considering stopping suicide bombings, I guess Sharon couldn't let go.

 

[Lucky]

Does anyone think that you could "reasonably" apply some of the same the logic that the US used in using the atomic bomb during WWII to the palestinians using suicide bombs against the israelis? More specifically, since military service in mandatory for israeli males (females?) would discriminate bombing of large groups of israeli males be considered OK since they are, were, or would be part of the IDF force?

please take careful note of the specific aspect of my question if you choose to respond.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Nefrodite
so full of moral relativism...

i am neither jewish or palestinian, or religious in any way. i do not hate, i do however see much hate from palestinians. enough to send suicide bombers after children. i see twisting of logic to justify palestinian inhumanity, i see wrong. i see an entire entire body of thought promoted by the palestinians and their warefare through justified genocide. i see wrong.

I see hate from the palestinians, but I see hate coming from despiration.
But fair enough, do you see any wrong in what Israel is doing and has done?

ps. this has nothing to do with genocide for either side, a possibility though that a "small" part of either side wants that but that is far far from everyone.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: Slovin8

They had been after that guy for years already and never could capture him. They could have send in marines, try and talk the Palestinian authorities into letting them in (can't use force against innocents, now can we?), and 2 days later when arriving at the appartment discover he moved and arranged the deaths of 50 more people?
Any innocent death is despicable, but in this case I understand why they chose for certainty.

You understand? Most Israelis acknowledge that it's a horrific mistake and you.... "understand".

The 3rd most powerful military in the world can only use OUR F-16s to get one guy who lives in a densly populated areas.

You don't prevent a massacre by commiting one.

You DON'T.

It just so happens that Hamas was considering stopping suicide bombings, I guess Sharon couldn't let go.

So I guess if you could have prevented the mass murders and rapes in Jugoslavia by killing a few innocents you'd instead have signed up with the Servian army for some rape parties?

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: Nefrodite

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Nefrodite
theres a difference between going after a CURRENT military target and going after an entire people because they are the enemy. after all, in all wars all civilians are potential military conscripts if the war lasts long enough. all civilians support the military structure. so that justifies genocide from the start according to palestinian thought. women and children, even though they don't fight on the front lines, they must die. these are people that would shoot the fetus inside a israeli womans belly if they could.

so full of hate

Hatred is the most poisonous human emotion. It blocks the capacity to empathise that lies at the heart of human association. It turns the object of the hatred into just that - an object. It robs the hater of his or her fundamental human quality - humanity. In so doing, it opens the door to the most callous and depraved acts that one human being can commit against another.

so full of moral relativism...

i am neither jewish or palestinian, or religious in any way. i do not hate, i do however see much hate from palestinians. enough to send suicide bombers after children. i see twisting of logic to justify palestinian inhumanity, i see wrong. i see an entire entire body of thought promoted by the palestinians and their warefare through justified genocide. i see wrong.

The same twisting of logic applies to the very same acts you defend...

Palestinians aren't inhuman, neither israelis, but when terrorist leaders on both sides decides that this war has to have civilian casualties it is wrong... You cannot, even with the best of will say that the Israelis did not target civilians...

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: Slovin8

They had been after that guy for years already and never could capture him. They could have send in marines, try and talk the Palestinian authorities into letting them in (can't use force against innocents, now can we?), and 2 days later when arriving at the appartment discover he moved and arranged the deaths of 50 more people?
Any innocent death is despicable, but in this case I understand why they chose for certainty.

You understand? Most Israelis acknowledge that it's a horrific mistake and you.... "understand".

The 3rd most powerful military in the world can only use OUR F-16s to get one guy who lives in a densly populated areas.

You don't prevent a massacre by commiting one.

You DON'T.

It just so happens that Hamas was considering stopping suicide bombings, I guess Sharon couldn't let go.

So I guess if you could have prevented the mass murders and rapes in Jugoslavia by killing a few innocents you'd instead have signed up with the Servian army for some rape parties?

How on earth do you prevent mass murder and rape by killing innocents?

 

[Slovin8]

So I guess if you could have prevented the mass murders and rapes in Jugoslavia by killing a few innocents you'd instead have signed up with the Servian army for some rape parties?

and how many innocents should we kill to stop that? what's the limit?!

how about 20? no no, 50 people are good enough. How about 3000?

If we allow ourselves to concoiusly induge in those subhuman atroticies and crimes, we are not better off than the terrorists.

A massacre never justifies another.

End of story.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: Slovin8

They had been after that guy for years already and never could capture him. They could have send in marines, try and talk the Palestinian authorities into letting them in (can't use force against innocents, now can we?), and 2 days later when arriving at the appartment discover he moved and arranged the deaths of 50 more people?
Any innocent death is despicable, but in this case I understand why they chose for certainty.

You understand? Most Israelis acknowledge that it's a horrific mistake and you.... "understand".

The 3rd most powerful military in the world can only use OUR F-16s to get one guy who lives in a densly populated areas.

You don't prevent a massacre by commiting one.

You DON'T.

It just so happens that Hamas was considering stopping suicide bombings, I guess Sharon couldn't let go.

So I guess if you could have prevented the mass murders and rapes in Jugoslavia by killing a few innocents you'd instead have signed up with the Servian army for some rape parties?

How on earth do you prevent mass murder and rape by killing innocents?

If you could have stopped Hitler, Stalin from what they did by bombing a village, would you have chosed the deaths of millions above that of a few?

I know there is only one person in the world who's life I'd choose above that of every other life. (Pray I'd never face that choice, I would sacrifice anyone for her )

 

[Moonbeam]

Probably the next Hitler was in the WYC and that's why it got hit. Boy I feel a lot better now. It was 19 strong minded realists with the capibility of making non relativistic moral decisions that flew those planes. Now I see.

 

[Slovin8]

AlQaeda: If you could kill few Americans, say 3000 (out of 280 million, that's a few!) so that you make a direct hit to the American economy that is the main supplier of Israel, wouldn't that be worth it for the sake of the millions of Palestinian living under humiliation and constantly being killed by Israelis?

 

[ultimatebob]

Ah, yet another Slovin8 flamefest. I'm not even going to bother reading his post, because I'm certain that it's just another slanted piece of anti-Isreal garbage.

Seriously, I'm trying to figure out why the mods haven't canceled this guy's account. It should be obvious by now that this evil little troll is just posting flamebait to tick people off.

 

[Moonbeam]

I would sacrifice anyone for her
___________________________

Spoken like a true Palestinian.

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: Slovin8

They had been after that guy for years already and never could capture him. They could have send in marines, try and talk the Palestinian authorities into letting them in (can't use force against innocents, now can we?), and 2 days later when arriving at the appartment discover he moved and arranged the deaths of 50 more people?
Any innocent death is despicable, but in this case I understand why they chose for certainty.

You understand? Most Israelis acknowledge that it's a horrific mistake and you.... "understand".

The 3rd most powerful military in the world can only use OUR F-16s to get one guy who lives in a densly populated areas.

You don't prevent a massacre by commiting one.

You DON'T.

It just so happens that Hamas was considering stopping suicide bombings, I guess Sharon couldn't let go.

So I guess if you could have prevented the mass murders and rapes in Jugoslavia by killing a few innocents you'd instead have signed up with the Servian army for some rape parties?

How on earth do you prevent mass murder and rape by killing innocents?

If you could have stopped Hitler, Stalin from what they did by bombing a village, would you have chosed the deaths of millions above that of a few?

I know there is only one person in the world who's life I'd choose above that of every other life. (Pray I'd never face that choice, I would sacrifice anyone for her )

If you could have stopped Hitler, Stalin from what they did by bombing a village, would you have chosed the deaths of millions above that of a few?

Could it have been prevented in any other way? if i could pinpoint them, then why not follow their moves until they can be killed without civilian casualties... besides, you are comparing apples and oranges here, Hitler and Stalin could not be compared to ANY Hamas leader, maybe in mindset, but not in power..

 

[Moonbeam]

And he calls himself ultimatebob. I wonder what he's the ultimate example of. Man did he tick me off.

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
And he calls himself ultimatebob. I wonder what he's the ultimate example of. Man did he tick me off.

Yes, I too feel very angry with him.

 

[Slovin8]

Ah, yet another Slovin8 flamefest. I'm not even going to bother reading his post, because I'm certain that it's just another slanted piece of anti-Isreal garbage.

Seriously, I'm trying to figure out why the mods haven't canceled this guy's account. It should be obvious by now that this evil little troll is just posting flamebait to tick people off.

And what flame was I provoking when I showed the commiting a massacre to prevent a massacre is morally repugnant ?

The AlQaeda emample is just to show you that if someone accepts for a second killing innocent to reach their goals then they are on the same grounds as the terrorist themselves.

 

[Nefrodite]

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Nefrodite

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Nefrodite
theres a difference between going after a CURRENT military target and going after an entire people because they are the enemy. after all, in all wars all civilians are potential military conscripts if the war lasts long enough. all civilians support the military structure. so that justifies genocide from the start according to palestinian thought. women and children, even though they don't fight on the front lines, they must die. these are people that would shoot the fetus inside a israeli womans belly if they could.

so full of hate

Hatred is the most poisonous human emotion. It blocks the capacity to empathise that lies at the heart of human association. It turns the object of the hatred into just that - an object. It robs the hater of his or her fundamental human quality - humanity. In so doing, it opens the door to the most callous and depraved acts that one human being can commit against another.

so full of moral relativism...

i am neither jewish or palestinian, or religious in any way. i do not hate, i do however see much hate from palestinians. enough to send suicide bombers after children. i see twisting of logic to justify palestinian inhumanity, i see wrong. i see an entire entire body of thought promoted by the palestinians and their warefare through justified genocide. i see wrong.

The same twisting of logic applies to the very same acts you defend...

Palestinians aren't inhuman, neither israelis, but when terrorist leaders on both sides decides that this war has to have civilian casualties it is wrong... You cannot, even with the best of will say that the Israelis did not target civilians...

by that logic, you cannot say that the US did not target civilians in its war against the taliban. :roll

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I would sacrifice anyone for her
___________________________

Spoken like a true Palestinian.

Of course, only Palestinians are capable of love. Really, I thought you had at least 1 braincell, I guess I was wrong in thinking that.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I would sacrifice anyone for her
___________________________

Spoken like a true Palestinian.

Of course, only Palestinians are capable of love. Really, I thought you had at least 1 braincell, I guess I was wrong in thinking that.

meaning doing anything to protect their loved ones
that was his point

 

[nemesismk2]

Originally posted by: Nefrodite

Originally posted by: nemesismk2
I wouldn't bomb civilians, it doesn't matter who was hiding with them I wouldn't do it because that would make me a terrorist and I'm better than that. If people justify the killing of innocent civilians then where do you draw the line? Is 30 dead civilians ok? How about 3000?

so you wouldn't bomb a man planning the next WTC if you had confirmation. sometimes its a dark choice to make, but guess who forced you to make it?

If innocent civilians had to die then no I wouldn't drop a bomb on them, I would find other means which IMO is what most people would do because it would be the RIGHT thing to do.

 

[justint]

Originally posted by: nemesismk2
Israel uses tanks and the army and Palestine uses suicide bombers, IMO they are both as bad as each other and I feel sorry for the innocent civilians caught in the middle. It's about time the rest of the world acted against them both, maybe send in troops to restore order. How about a large force of German soldiers guarding the border? ok me bad!

Name a country apart from America who actually likes Israel? I can't think of any!

That's kind of funny. In some countries such as Thailand, Indonesia, etc. hotels actually have signs saying "NO ISRAELIS". Not "NO JEWS" or something like that, but "NO ISRAELIS" because they are so damn rude and annoying. My friends who spent time in Israel told me about that.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I wish I were wise enough to fix this, but I know I am not smart enough to know how I should feel. I am in love with the idea of happiness, for everyone, but especially for children. Here it seems I am to choose which children die in the arms of their parents. Do I side with the Israelis or the Palestinians? Who do I choose to suffer? Someone help me pick. I need to know which side "deserves" this misery.

 

[justint]

Originally posted by: Nefrodite

And maybe the Hamas terrorist are thinking the exact same thing, that doesn't make either of the sides right...

What will be next, what do you think? Now Hamas will retaliate and more civilians will suffer, then Israel will retaliate and more civilians will suffer.... Both sides are so concentrated on retaliation that they cannot see what they are actually doing...

you do nothing and hamas bombs you anyways, so thats a moot point.

better to kill terrorists then try to absorb the injuries.






first of all, hamas doesn't think the same way. they think any civilian is a legitimate target, they have said it many times. if israel had done that you would have genocide.. and perhaps an end to the palestinian problem

No, if you know who is planning the next WTC, you go after HIM, that is the rules the civilised world plays by...

in a perfect world....


you know the palestnians hide hundred pound bombs of explosives in houses right? it would be a bloodbath. urban warfare...

civilized world eh? how many civilians did the US kill in afganistan? and we tried our hardest to minimize collateral damage. our bombs are smart, they aren't that smart.

go ahead, invent the perfect weapons that only kill bad people, make the world a better place.

So what you are basicly saying that all the Palestinian suicide bombings are ok because in "their" view the end justifies the means because after all the people they kill could end up being IDF soldiers and kill hundreds of Palestinians. Way to go

theres a difference between going after a CURRENT military target and going after an entire people because they are the enemy. after all, in all wars all civilians are potential military conscripts if the war lasts long enough. all civilians support the military structure. so that justifies genocide from the start according to palestinian thought. women and children, even though they don't fight on the front lines, they must die. these are people that would shoot the fetus inside a israeli womans belly if they could.

Nefrodite,
"The Palestinian Problem"?? Is that kind of like Hitlers Jewish Problem??? Is it time for a final solution??

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
I wish I were wise enough to fix this, but I know I am not smart enough to know how I should feel. I am in love with the idea of happiness, for everyone, but especially for children. Here it seems I am to choose which children die in the arms of their parents. Do I side with the Israelis or the Palestinians? Who do I choose to suffer? Someone help me pick. I need to know which side "deserves" this misery.

side with the civilians of both sides, not their rulers