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Israel / Gaza Thread
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mrSHEiK124
Lifer
:roll: 1.5 million people don't have supplies because Israel won't let them in, if you want to label them all as terrorists, be my guest. You're clearly indoctrinated and won't change your mind about the matter. If it were up to me, there would be ONE SECULAR STATE encompassing the entire territory, but then you'd have a problem because the inherently racist and exclusive Jewish state of Israel would no longer exist.
Since you clearly can't read, I've taken the relevant information from the links I posted. I see a whole ton of "foreign shipments" being blocked, and the only Israeli welfare being blocked is diesel WHICH WAS PAID FOR. So they're shady businessmen too...
http://www.latimes.com/news/na...8nov21,0,4556575.story
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/976086.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27801489/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...ain-Gaza-blockade.html
mrSHEiK124
Lifer
If YOU read the articles, the rocket attacks were in response to the blockade (since the beginning of 2008) not being lifted or even eased.
End of ceasefire, no change in blockade -> some rockets -> incursions into Gaza -> more rockets -> Hamas now has no food, neither does the rest of Gaza, Hamas still has rockets -> more rockets. Rockets are made out of fertilizer, and have killed four people since mid-November. Israel killed a few hundred civilians in one week.
ProfJohn
Lifer
Your idea lacks logic.
Israel cuts of the supplies because Hamas won't stop the rocket attacks. So Hamas responds by taking a course of action that will ensure Israel ends all aid to Gaza. It makes no sense.
BTW Gaza has a boarder with Egypt, why don't the Egyptians help them with fuel, electricity and medicine?
Fear No Evil
Diamond Member
I thought Obama was going to talk to everyone and resolve this? I'll give him the benefit of the doubt since he isn't President yet, but I fully expect this will be resolved peacefully on Jan 21st.. give or take a day.
mrSHEiK124
Lifer
Hosni Mubarak is a different story, and a different angry stream of thought, don't distract me!
Lemon law
Lifer
Non Prof John asks the totally ridiculous and ignorant question of " BTW Gaza has a boarder with Egypt, why don't the Egyptians help them with fuel, electricity and medicine?"
And the answer is that Israel is the entity charged with collecting and distributing taxes collected in Gaza, from the residents of Gaza, and is way way way behind in doing a just distribution. And if it were not for the social wing of Hamas, and the contributions from Muslim charities the plight of Palestinians in Gaza, the lot of the Palestinian people would be far worse.
Egypt never had any claim on Gaza, Gaza just happens to be the worst land Israel can dump the Palestinians in, and maybe next non Prof John will ask why the Swiss don't take step up to the plate so the Israelis can keep all the taxes they collect. Hey if PJ can pick some country at random, he might as well stay on a roll.
And the answer is that Israel is the entity charged with collecting and distributing taxes collected in Gaza, from the residents of Gaza, and is way way way behind in doing a just distribution. And if it were not for the social wing of Hamas, and the contributions from Muslim charities the plight of Palestinians in Gaza, the lot of the Palestinian people would be far worse.
Egypt never had any claim on Gaza, Gaza just happens to be the worst land Israel can dump the Palestinians in, and maybe next non Prof John will ask why the Swiss don't take step up to the plate so the Israelis can keep all the taxes they collect. Hey if PJ can pick some country at random, he might as well stay on a roll.
MovingTarget
Diamond Member
Fear No Evil
Diamond Member
Come on now Non-Lemon Law, the real answer is that Egypt and the rest of the Arab community care less about the Palestinians than the Israeli's do.
I am glad you sit back all day and check online message board posts for grammar..... Its an essential task to be completed in today's society
And also... like I said..... that is not WP in the picture in Gaza..... newer shells of "smoke" actually contain canistered smoke (similar to cluster bomb method of disbursement) to spread smoke over a larger area.....
It has the signs of WP.... but the fact that it looks like a ground impact and not an Airburst, which is almost always used with WP, I don't believe it is WP...
And when we used WP in Fallugah.... it was after civilians were given 48 hours to leave the city.... anyone who stayed was told they would be treated as hostile....
AND EVEN IF IT WAS.... its an open field... not like they dropped in a market.... hell... fire rockets into a country with one of the most well trained army's of the world.... YOU'RE asking to play with "fire"
Rockinacoustic
Platinum Member
About time somebody asked the bleeding hearts this question.
Are Israel's attacks a long term solution? Probably not. But something had to be done. And all that's heard on this forum is criticism with no alternative to back it up.
Are Israel's attacks a long term solution? Probably not. But something had to be done. And all that's heard on this forum is criticism with no alternative to back it up.
NoShangriLa
Golden Member
Lowered the hawkish superior Jew stance, and respect their elected leaders.
Give Palestinian concessions, and play nice with Israel neighbors (bombs & bullets aren't going to win friends, except American).
Push for unity of Israel & Palestinian as a single identity instead of Separatist/Zionism ideal.
Return the lands that was taken from the Palestinians, and media/political campaigning for unity might work (if only Israels take a stance against Nazi extreamist Jews).
Fair treatment and supports for Palestinian as equal.
Give Palestinian concessions, and play nice with Israel neighbors (bombs & bullets aren't going to win friends, except American).
Push for unity of Israel & Palestinian as a single identity instead of Separatist/Zionism ideal.
Return the lands that was taken from the Palestinians, and media/political campaigning for unity might work (if only Israels take a stance against Nazi extreamist Jews).
Fair treatment and supports for Palestinian as equal.
im just answering the OPs question as to what should israel do in the face "endless" rocket attacks..... pull out the illegal settlements. They're the ones bearing the brunt of rocket attacks, but they shouldnt even be there in the first place.
These jewish extremists that insist on making settlements on palestinian territory have the IDF to protect them, who do the palestinians have? before the PLO emerged, what was the fate of palestinians in the 50's and 60's? nada, they were complety ignored. they were bloody refugees. its an unfortunate fact that the world started paying attention when they took up terrorism, for better or worse. Israel would have never made any concessions to the palestinians if it was'nt for the intifadah. they had to fight for everything they were promised.
These jewish extremists that insist on making settlements on palestinian territory have the IDF to protect them, who do the palestinians have? before the PLO emerged, what was the fate of palestinians in the 50's and 60's? nada, they were complety ignored. they were bloody refugees. its an unfortunate fact that the world started paying attention when they took up terrorism, for better or worse. Israel would have never made any concessions to the palestinians if it was'nt for the intifadah. they had to fight for everything they were promised.
MovingTarget
Diamond Member
That is what they have been doing, albeit slowly. (which is what they should be doing) However, I find it kind of hard to believe that all the rockets are being shot at settlements instead of just the nearest target of convenience (i.e. city) in Israel. If the settlements just dissapeared overnight, do you really think the attacks would cease?
NoShangriLa
Golden Member
The rocket might not stop right away, but it have a chance to stop if Israelis kick extreamist out of office and that might give the Palestinians the will to kick their own extreamist out of government.
mrSHEiK124
Lifer
I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Israel withdrawing from Gaza settlements was comparatively easy, from a logistical standpoint. Gaza is about the size of my pinky-toenail, and all the settlements were very close to the Israel-proper/Gaza border. Withdrawing from there just gave them a nice buffer zone to the border.
Settlements in the West Bank, on the other hand, are far too entrenched into WB infrastructure. Text Everything that's blue on that map is Israeli controlled, dark blue means it's a settlement, light blue basically means DMZ. A two state solution would carve the West Bank up, providing Israel with extremely difficult borders to control, and leaving too many Palestinians further enraged over illegal theft of their land. Combine that with how well countries split by another country shoved in between them have done (Kashmir anyone?) and you've got a recipe for disaster.
The only solution is a one secular state solution. It's absurd to suggest that 5 million Jews who now live in the region or 4 million Arabs holding onto what's left or 1 million Jewish settlers in the West Bank or any large number of people should just pick up and leave at this point. Depose the corrupt leadership both in the PA and Israel, tell everybody to kiss and make up, and most importantly, give both the Arab and the Jew EQUAL HUMAN RIGHTS. That includes the right of return to any unused land lost by '48 or '67 refugees (Israel calls it "state land") and also includes the rights of everyone to peacefully stay where they are.
You'd be surprised, a one state solution is completely plausible to everyone but diehards like Hamas and warmongers like some of the Israeli leadership.
mrSHEiK124
Lifer
The rocket fire provides an interesting conundrum. Many of the Hamas in Gaza firing rockets are firing them into what was THEIR LAND half a century ago. The majority of Gaza's refugee population come from cities like Ashkelon (Arabic: Askalan) which also happens to be a frequent target of rocket fire.
MovingTarget
Diamond Member
Actually, I do see your point there. However, why is Gaza the one reacting to rockets over settlements in the West Bank? Why isn't the West Bank the ones reacting? If we are going to have a multi-state solution, why do we keep insisting on having to link these two geographically separate areas?
I do agree that the best possible solution would be the 1-state solution that you mention, but hatreds and tensions are too high for me to expect to see it in my lifetime, unfortunately.
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