Originally posted by: irishScott
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: irishScott
I'm not surprised at this attack either. When the Prime Minister said "enough is enough" I called it. Whether Israel and Palestine will get anything tangible out of this has yet to be seen.
What you're missing is the political element of the approaching Israeli elections, where the relatively weak Prime Minister is running against a hard right-winger and it benefits him politically to have this attack happen at this time to look better in comparison. But don't let the truth get in the way of your dragging our the cliches to justify all such attacks, again.
For the sake of argument, *what if* the primary motivation for this attack was the election - how many strong supported using those cliches would condemn that?
I susepct a few would, and many others would just fit it in, that all the justifications are still legitimate, and so on and so on, because of their bias.
It would be *very* uncomortable for people to admit they had backed something terribly immoral, and many simply wouldn't admit it. They do like the comfortable little story they've built up so carefully for so long on why bascially every Israeli action is right, and are not going to begin to give it up without a lot more than that.
If you could conclusively prove that the invasion was entirely (or even considerably) due to the election, I and I imagine most people would be shouting down the Israeli PM right now. Just look at Iraq when we didn't find WMDs.
OK, let's look at Iraq when we didn't find WMD's. It had no impact on our policy, and the president and the war supporters both said the war was justified regardless.
In other words, the *enormous* accountability people thought existed when the assurances were given, when it seemed it would a a *huge* Watergate-level deal if not larger should there not be WMD, turned out to be a minor political event, with the president re-elected soon after the lack of WMD was determined. There *should* be more accountability.
Sure you're right; there are fanatics and morons who just basically say "credo Israel" and let it go at that, but that element has been present in every social group since the dawn of hunter-gatherer societies. Thankfully it is generally a minority in the modern West (or more of a minority than it used to be).
I think there are a lot of people who follow that without realizing it. They think they're 'fair', but somehow always end up excusing one side.
There were no shortage of people here in P&N who said sincerely that if no WMD were found they'd eat their hats, figuratively, and almost to a person, that changed.
In all likelihood, the upcoming election did play a role in the decision to attack now, but it was the Hamas rockets that were the catalyst. Hamas is also an organization openly dedicated to the complete and utter destruction of Israel. It is thus a threat to Israel's national security, and this conflict/invasion/reoccupation was IMO inevitable. The election just pushed the issue a little.
You're displaying the very behavior here I'm talking about- rather than say you don't know how much of a role the election played, you pick a minimal role favorable to Israel and say you believe that's the role it played. You are spinning for them, and I don't think you even reaalize it.
I've discussed elsewhere the whole 'unlimited license for violence' issue the other justitifcations you raise involve so I'll leave that point out.
Don't miss the larger point I was making about how bias works by getting caught up in the specific example about the role of elections here.
The larger issue was not whether the example is correct, but how the supporters of that side would react in many cases if it were.
It's funny, back when the USSR fell, I suspected that our foreign policy rhetoric would shift to the 'terrorist', as our major state enemy was gone; suddenly all those attacks on what evil government can do could hit a tlittle too close to home, and it was time to demonize our most likely new enemies as we went around making some new enemies. We could hardly affor for our public to be making comparisons to abused people and our founding fathers; we needed to have the stereotypical 'terrorist' ready to label anyone with, and people conditioned to oppose anyone with that label. I think that's largely what happened. Of course, when it was the Afghan radical Islamicists we wer earmining fighting the USSR, the word terrorist did not apply, it was all about freedom fighters.