dphantom
Diamond Member
- Jan 14, 2005
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kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
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I didn't suggest anything was simple here, I simply presented some hard facts. If you'd like to contest them the you are free to do so. However, all you have done here is provided simple minded attempts to justify Israel's conquest over whatever land it likes, with calculus disregard for the millions of people there as well those Israelis who die in this ongoing conquest.
Again you show yourself as an extremist of he same ilk as as the terrorists, except your extremism has you cheering on the far more powerful side.
Freshgeardude
Diamond Member
- Jul 31, 2006
- 4,506
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someone who posted earlier showed a link about the exact past of the land of Israel from the British mandate till today. I suggest you read it.
now..
the REAL REASON why there will NEVER be peace in Israel...
Teaching Hate from a Young age, from a woman grown up in Lebanon. keep in mind, this occurs throughout all of the ME including gaza. Watch all 8 minutes, if you dont, I wont bother responding to your comments.
secondly
Hamas Killing Innocent Palestinians for singing at a wedding among other things once again, watch all 11 minutes
now, tell me is Israel really the complete bad people here? honestly. does Israel do this? no. does hamas stand for 8 years of rocket fire and do nothing? no, they cant even handle 2 weeks.
so honestly tell me, why would you defend these people who want to kill anyone in their path
I'm glad we agree it was unjust; you seem aswfully cavaliere that the fact it was means that the issue that we should not have been there trumps - to use your bridge analogy - the issues of winning the war. An unjust war is not a side issue, an unfortunate attribute, it's more important than the tactics. It's not 'unjust, but win', it's 'unjust, don't go/get out'.
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
- 0
- 0
I am familar with the history.
Right, if only they wouldn't hate Israelis openly for keeping them pinned off like cattle while robbing them of their homeland.
Israeli propaganda is far more sophisticated, as the results show.
Is that a might makes right argument?
I don't defend Hamas. Why do you callously disregard the millions of other people who are being oppressed and killed in the path of Israel's ongoing conquest of Palestine?
Jaskalas
Lifer
- Jun 23, 2004
- 36,450
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The second bolded part disproves the first. It is a distortion or outright lie that their offensive in Gaza is a conquest. Such a distortion is just as likely to come straight from a terrorist as it does from you.
I would join in calls for a ceasefire, IF such agreements included both sides of the conflict. We have been shown time and again that while the world will successfully stop Israel from continuing the offensive, no one applies that pressure to the other side. Hamas?s offensive has no one other than Israel stopping it.
Freshgeardude
Diamond Member
- Jul 31, 2006
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you honestly think that Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iran, among others are really trying to completely destroy Israel for a small ass peice of land? where their land is over twice the size of the US? The arab nations are 640 times larger than Israel
PLEASE make some sense. they hate Jewish people, they ALWAYS claim for the destruction of Israel.
about that the fact they have land that is 2 times to land of the USA, they dont even let the people of gaza into their countries.
ONTOP of that, Hamas wont even sit in the same room as Israelis for a peace agreement. the first part of peace of dealing with your enemies and if they cant do that, then what!
oh and, TheSnowman, how come you did not reply to my long post higher up on the thread? I would like to hear what you say about it
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
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2006 all over again: Israel to give up, Hamas to keep fighting
Under the weight of the scum sucking and pansy assed Europeans, who few years ago were baking Jews in ovens and using there skins for lamps, Israeli is giving up. This same Euro scum still hate the Jews and would rather side with Hamas. Like many posters here, are a twisted mindset of a people who would hate a Jew and embrace Islam whose mission is to destroy them. They deserve everything they get. I hope Islam destroys Europe burns every museum and cathedral to the ground - and guess what they are half way there!
http://www.reuters.com/article...e=RSS&feedName=topNews
"GAZA (Reuters) - Israel plans to halt its Gaza offensive without any deal with Hamas, an Israeli official said on Saturday, in an apparent effort to deny the Islamist group any gains from the three-week-old conflict.
Hamas leaders in exile have vowed to fight on, but many of the 1.5 million Palestinians enduring incessant bombardment and privation in Gaza seemed desperate for their ordeal to end.
"The goal is to announce, subject to cabinet approval, a suspension of military activities because we believe our goals have been attained," said the official, asking not to be named.""
Under the weight of the scum sucking and pansy assed Europeans, who few years ago were baking Jews in ovens and using there skins for lamps, Israeli is giving up. This same Euro scum still hate the Jews and would rather side with Hamas. Like many posters here, are a twisted mindset of a people who would hate a Jew and embrace Islam whose mission is to destroy them. They deserve everything they get. I hope Islam destroys Europe burns every museum and cathedral to the ground - and guess what they are half way there!
http://www.reuters.com/article...e=RSS&feedName=topNews
"GAZA (Reuters) - Israel plans to halt its Gaza offensive without any deal with Hamas, an Israeli official said on Saturday, in an apparent effort to deny the Islamist group any gains from the three-week-old conflict.
Hamas leaders in exile have vowed to fight on, but many of the 1.5 million Palestinians enduring incessant bombardment and privation in Gaza seemed desperate for their ordeal to end.
"The goal is to announce, subject to cabinet approval, a suspension of military activities because we believe our goals have been attained," said the official, asking not to be named.""
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
- 0
- 0
No, it doesn't.
Yet I didn't suggest anything of the sort.
You came up with that distortion yourself.
Israel's offensive continues in their conquest throughout the rest of Palestine over in the West Bank, as it has done so long before there was any rocket attacks or any Hamas for that matter. The world has been trying to stop that offensive for decades, but US support of Israel contenues to hold the world back.
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
- 0
- 0
I know that if Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iran, among others were really trying to completely destroy Israel, this would be a lot bigger of conlifct.
Arab land isn't even the size of the US, let alone twice. I'd ask you to check a map, but I get the impression you aren't cappable of reading one anyway.
Many people have bank accounts 640 times larger than mine. Do you suggest I steal a bit of their money from them?
Pease realize I am.
Again, they hate those Jewish people who are destroying Palestine. They want to end it though, and constantly vote with the majorty of the world to bring a solution to this conlifct so that both Israel and and Palestine can exist in peace. Yet Israel just spits in their faces as the US holds their hand.
There are complications to this conflict beyond what I could expect you to grasp. However, there are people of Gaza in the Arab world and elsewhere. For instance, one Gazan is astrophysicist at NASA here in the US, but his son was fatally wounded by an Israeli bomb, and died at a hospital in Egypt :
http://www.democracynow.org/20...her_in_us_recounts_how
Sure, Israel is willing to sit the same room as Palestinians, but Israel's never showed any interest in a peace agreement, only an agreement to put Palestinians under a voluntary state of permanent subjugation.
I've haven't seen you understand much of anything I say, so I've come to just reply to your posts when I think doing so might help others understand.
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
- 0
- 0
Israel hasn't given up or shown any intent in doing so, they continue to wipe Palestine off the map with their ongoing colonization of the West Bank. Of course they are still going to get attacked as long as their conquest continues, expecting otherwise is like a rapist complaining about his victim scratching back at him.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
- 3
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zebo has a minor point, in the similar 2006 Israeli rape of Lebanon, it has resulted in a general stoppage of missiles coming in from Lebanon after 2006. And while Hezbollah has gained popularity and continues to have such missiles, it has decided that it can't subject Lebanon to such a one sided Israeli reprisals. And the only missiles coming from Lebanon in this current Gaza incident came from fringe groups.
And in MHO, the Snowman has the greater point, how much longer the larger world international community will tolerate Israel's to engage in such one sided 100 to 1 collective punishments will be an open question with Israel world support suffering each time.
Because in the larger 60 year tit for tat terrorists attacks against Israel, Israeli reprisals only change the directions the attacks come from without slowing them down. And we can only guess that more and more stateless terrorists will be funded and armed, as the range of the rockets get longer, and perhaps the payloads become chemical and biological weapons.
IMHO, Israel will know no peace and will ultimately lose entirely unless it brings a measure of justice and equal rights for Palestinians.
Maybe blood lust satisfied, Israeli troops will with draw from Gaza, but I very much doubt this latest chapter in the larger 60 year struggle will change much of anything. If anything, expect Hamas support to increase, and Fatah to go the way of the dodo. Arab anger will also increase while international pressure against Israel will increase.
Freshgeardude
Diamond Member
- Jul 31, 2006
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If there's a vote, then I'm also in favor of Lemon law getting a vacation. dphantom is absolutely correct in the need for folks to be respectful even if we periodically dissagree with each other.
G*d damn, WELL SAID !
here's the long version -
yes, the Palestinians are actually people.
Wikipedia on the refugees created when Israel destroyed 400 Palestinian villages in 1948, as part of seizing the land that became Israel in 1948.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus
Palestine Remembered website, a tour of Palestine in 1948. what it was like to live their before the war where the land was stolen. a lot of olive farmers growing olives next to the Mediterranean, like in Greece.
http://www.palestineremembered.com/
interview with a refugee who lives in Daly City, Ca, and left Palestine in 1948 at the age of 17.
http://www.alternet.org/audits...years_ago/?page=entire
What It Was Like Being Forced to Leave Palestine 60 Years Ago
some Israel supporters choose to be blind to the destruction of Palestine.
this puts them in an odd position. they insist that the world pay homage to the Holocaust in Germany, yet are in denial about the innate facts of the creation of the "Palestinian Problem" by Israel. Israel created the Palestinian problem by stealing the Palestinians land.
and feign surprise and shock and horror when the Palestinians' puny army fights back.
That war & theft the Palestinians refer to as Al Nakba. it is their term for Holocaust.
no one denies that Hamas and other groups shoot bombs into civilian areas of Israel & kills dozens of Israeli
civilians during the last 60 years. it's all over the media.
but Israel-supporters are in denial about killing tens of thousands of Palestinian citizens.
Israel supporters insist that it was justified to -
A/ steal the Palestinians land, and
B/ kill the Palestinians because they fight back.
this is similar to the same moral calculus that Hitler used to justify killing Jews. to Hitler, the Jews were mud-bloods, to use the Harry Potter term. To Israel supporters, the Palestinians are mud-bloods.
it's human for people to feel that way, but i thought there was wide-spread agreement that Hitler's choice to act on his racist feelings was a huge moral error.
so how is it not a huge moral error & tragedy for Israel to treat the Palestinians similarly ?
http://wire.antiwar.com/2009/0...counts-house-of-death/
gaza-boy-recounts-house-of-death
Israel has put 1.5 Palestinians in a concentration camp and is using White Phosphorus and DIME, both chemical weapons, on Palestinian civilians.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t...ast/article5470047.ece
why does Israel get a "pass", yet if someone like Hitler had done this, he would be condemned ?
it is because Israel supporters consider the Palestinians to be "mud-bloods", and they consider the theft of their land to be justified.
they want us to remember Hitler's crimes, and to ignor their crimes.
they are joined in this belief by American Christians. as in the bumper sticker that says, "Palestine belongs to Israel, the Bible says so".
Jaskalas
Lifer
- Jun 23, 2004
- 36,450
- 10,733
- 136
Refer to the personal issues forum if you guys want to post about such things.
Of course, it is only logical to ask for the surrender of your opponent. Then, I must wonder how it came to be that you side with Islamic extremists. Did you also side with them when 3,000 of us died?
Why is it your contention that Israel should surrender to terrorists now instead of, as you claim, their inevitable surrender later? Yes I can appreciate that their accessibility to technology will continue to expand. Their munitions will continue to grow, but if they ever meet the western world with a chemical or biological attack ? then I can assure you that nuclear weapons WILL be our response.
This is why it is paramount that we do not surrender today, and allow them the safe harbor by which to foster their strength. This is why your ideal of stopping us from attacking them cannot be allowed or tolerated. If they are not defeated, this war will continue until it turns nuclear.
Of course, it is only logical to ask for the surrender of your opponent. Then, I must wonder how it came to be that you side with Islamic extremists. Did you also side with them when 3,000 of us died?
Why is it your contention that Israel should surrender to terrorists now instead of, as you claim, their inevitable surrender later? Yes I can appreciate that their accessibility to technology will continue to expand. Their munitions will continue to grow, but if they ever meet the western world with a chemical or biological attack ? then I can assure you that nuclear weapons WILL be our response.
This is why it is paramount that we do not surrender today, and allow them the safe harbor by which to foster their strength. This is why your ideal of stopping us from attacking them cannot be allowed or tolerated. If they are not defeated, this war will continue until it turns nuclear.
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
- 0
- 0
I was adressing your attempt to justify this conquest over Palestine, and your argument was that simple.
As for that webpage, if you want to believe a bunch of so-called Christians who think they are cheering Israel into what they believe will bring Jesus back, I can't stop you. However, I will tell you that they are completely delusional, and care nothing for Jews other than to help lead them into what they believe will bring the battle of Armageddon, in which they expect many Jews to die and the remainder be converted to Christianity.
I plead you to go visit some libraries and read some actual history. You could start by trying to verify the claims on that webapges with actual historical records, which will show you how disturbingly misguided the people who wrote that are.
Freshgeardude
Diamond Member
- Jul 31, 2006
- 4,506
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that is not where my information came from. I got it from somewhere else, I just wanted to show you the map comparison. you denied the arab countries being larger than the US.
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
- 0
- 0
You obviously get your information from wherever will tell you what you want to believe.
You could look at a real map rather not two poorly scaled representations from a website run by people who hope to see Judaism wiped out. Better yet, you could total up the total actual figures of the held by Arab nations and compare that to the land held by the US, to see how absurd your claim is. Granted, I doubt you have any interest in doing that.
You could look at a real map rather not two poorly scaled representations from a website run by people who hope to see Judaism wiped out. Better yet, you could total up the total actual figures of the held by Arab nations and compare that to the land held by the US, to see how absurd your claim is. Granted, I doubt you have any interest in doing that.
Freshgeardude
Diamond Member
- Jul 31, 2006
- 4,506
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I could do that, but I know id be right. if you want to compare land mass of every country that is ran by arabs, you would see that I am true, but I doubt u would want to see the truth
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
- 0
- 0
I have made the comparison, and you are off by a long shot. The Arab nations don't even come close to doubling the sides of the US, but rather only about 30% larger. Furthermore, they have considerably more uninhabitable desert.
Why do you insist on wallowing in such willful ignorance with your absurd arguments? Are you one of the minions of the Greater Good?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUpbOliTHJY
Why do you insist on wallowing in such willful ignorance with your absurd arguments? Are you one of the minions of the Greater Good?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUpbOliTHJY
Freshgeardude
Diamond Member
- Jul 31, 2006
- 4,506
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theflyingpig
Banned
- Mar 9, 2008
- 5,616
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Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
- 3
- 0
Well get a life and get a perspective, the square miles of land area of any given country is not a good predictor of much of anything. A truer contemporaneous predictor is in both population and technology. And it did not help the Arabs at the time of the crusades to be up against the far more numerous populations of Europe when a desert environment can support far fewer humans per square mile.
So, Israel today declared a unilateral cease fire - but are keeping forces in Gaza, while Hamas understandably says that they will fight while the occupation continues.
Looks like another PR move - "we're the side that's peaceful, we declared a cease fire!" while making it look like the other side is the bad guy for fighting occupiers.
Looks like another PR move - "we're the side that's peaceful, we declared a cease fire!" while making it look like the other side is the bad guy for fighting occupiers.
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