Israel / Gaza Thread

[ranmaniac]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
IDF Admits They Received No Gunfire From School/UN Shelter That They Shelled

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: linkgoron

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: linkgoron
Err the palestinians have been firing rockets at Israel for the last 8 years.

And Israel has been colonzing the Palstinians homeland out from under them by military forced since it before it was established over 60 years ago. Please quit focusing on the rockets and start looking at the larger conlifct and who's goals are being achived though it.

Well You could say that there's no occupied land in gaza.
I feel like I'm repeating myself.

You are repeating yourself because you insist on remaining completely oblivious to the larger conflict, and who's goals are being achieved though it.

The people in Gaza and the people in the West Bank are all Palestinians, and while Gaza is a tiny strip of land sealed off by Israeli military, the vast majority of what remains of Palestine know as the West Bank is being colonized by Israeli civilian settlers as the millions of Palestinians there have pinned back into cantons by Israeli military occupation. Israel's colonization by force of military occupation in the West Bank has been going on for over 40 years now, and is stripping the Palestinians of their right to sovereignty in their own homeland, regardless of if they currently live in the West Bank or the Gaza strip.

Do you understand now how little the fact that Gaza isn't "occupied land" at the moment has to do with the larger confict now?

You'll write anything to make it seem like murderous terrorist groups like Hamas and Hizbullah are justified in their actions. If the Palestinians of the west bank have a problem with Israel being there, they need to take it up with Jordan, not Israel, who captured the land as a strategic asset along with the Gaza strip and Golan Heights to help prevent future invaders from massing on their borders so easily.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: palehorse
My job is not based on "guesses." We use facts gained through first-hand exposure to the subject.

Go ahead, keep your dishonest head in the sand and keep hugging terrorists. I couldn't care less...

You argument here is based on guesses, and you are trying to slander me into not accepting your speculation.

And again, I condemn terrorists, Hamas or otherwise.

However, I don't let that dillude myself into believing things I have seen no proof of. Obviously you don't share such intellectual integrity.

Put simply, I wouldn't even trust you to clean my toilet.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Duwelon
You'll write anything to make it seem like murderous terrorist groups like Hamas and Hizbullah are justified in their actions.

You misunderstand me. I don't do anything of the sort, and have no intention of ever doing so. I condemn all terrorists, Hamas or otherwise, and belive they should be hunted down and killed if not captured. However, I also belive that to defeat the terrorists we must also kill their best recruitment tool, which is the gross injustices we continue to inflict on good people, such as Israel's ongoing colonization of Palestinian territory all across the West Bank.

Originally posted by: Duwelon
If the Palestinians of the west bank have a problem with Israel being there, they need to take it up with Jordan, not Israel, who captured the land as a strategic asset along with the Gaza strip and Golan Heights to help prevent future invaders from massing on their borders so easily.

it is Israel who has insisted on colonizing the West Bank under force military occupation for the past four decades, Jordan has no power to stop that. Only the US does, as we are the ones who have been vetoing all the UN Security Counsel resolutions which could have otherwise brought and end to this madness long ago.

 

[wwswimming]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054009.html

UN: IDF officers admitted there was no gunfire from Gaza school which was shelled

"The United Nations is claiming Israeli military officers have admitted there was no Palestinian gunfire emanating from inside an UNRWA school in Gaza which was shelled by an IDF tank.

Dozens of Palestinians were killed in the shelling. "

so Israel decimates the Gaza. and completely loses the War for Hearts & Minds.

not wise. not a "good neighbor" policy.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Duwelon
You'll write anything to make it seem like murderous terrorist groups like Hamas and Hizbullah are justified in their actions.

You misunderstand me. I don't do anything of the sort, and have no intention of ever doing so. I condemn all terrorists, Hamas or otherwise, and belive they should be hunted down and killed if not captured. However, I also belive that to defeat the terrorists we must also kill their best recruitment tool, which is the gross injustices we continue to inflict on good people, such as Israel's ongoing colonization of Palestinian territory all across the West Bank.

Originally posted by: Duwelon
If the Palestinians of the west bank have a problem with Israel being there, they need to take it up with Jordan, not Israel, who captured the land as a strategic asset along with the Gaza strip and Golan Heights to help prevent future invaders from massing on their borders so easily.

it is Israel who has insisted on colonizing the West Bank under force military occupation for the past four decades, Jordan has no power to stop that. Only the US does, as we are the ones who have been vetoing all the UN Security Counsel resolutions which could have otherwise brought and end to this madness long ago.

You're a fool if you think Israel, even giving up the west bank completely would do anything to stop the violence going on in that region. It wouldn't even measure on the scale in the long run as a step that brought peace to the area. There are way too many palestinians who are religiously (literally) seeking the utter and total destruction of Israel.

For you to come on here and bitch bout Israel colonizing the west bank as a cause for Islamic recruitment against them is just foolishness. There was Religious hatred for the jews before they captured the west bank and there will be religious hatred for them if they would give it back.

 

[Freshgeardude]

finding other articles on the matter, it said it was a mistaken fire on the school by the shelling.

but lets be honest. you cant honestly control those shells anyways, and besides, the building had explosives, may they be rockets, in them which caused most of the damage when they exploded.

so by accidentally shooting at a place, they destroyed potential missile fire on Israel.

this is a war, if you want to complain about 40 people dieing, dont even read this thread

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
finding other articles on the matter, it said it was a mistaken fire on the school by the shelling.

but lets be honest. you cant honestly control those shells anyways, and besides, the building had explosives, may they be rockets, in them which caused most of the damage when they exploded.

so by accidentally shooting at a place, they destroyed potential missile fire on Israel.

this is a war, if you want to complain about 40 people dieing, dont even read this thread

THe only people complaining are terrorist sympathizers on the left like Jpeyton who are so deluded by liberal ideology they can't for the life of them see the evil that is Hamas.

 

[fallout man]

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
finding other articles on the matter, it said it was a mistaken fire on the school by the shelling.

but lets be honest. you cant honestly control those shells anyways, and besides, the building had explosives, may they be rockets, in them which caused most of the damage when they exploded.

so by accidentally shooting at a place, they destroyed potential missile fire on Israel.

this is a war, if you want to complain about 40 people dieing, dont even read this thread

OMFG LOL. :roll:

You are a piece or work.

Originally posted by: Duwelon

THe only people complaining are terrorist sympathizers

You mean the anti-semites?

 

[ZeGermans]

http://kalleboo.mirror.wafflei...74aee7294d0086d5a9.jpg

*claims moral superiority*

*blankets area with white phosphorous*

 

[Freshgeardude]

Originally posted by: fallout man

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
finding other articles on the matter, it said it was a mistaken fire on the school by the shelling.

but lets be honest. you cant honestly control those shells anyways, and besides, the building had explosives, may they be rockets, in them which caused most of the damage when they exploded.

so by accidentally shooting at a place, they destroyed potential missile fire on Israel.

this is a war, if you want to complain about 40 people dieing, dont even read this thread

OMFG LOL. :roll:

You are a piece or work.

im a peice of work? why because I defend the only humane people in the middle east, the ones who got fired on by missiles for 8 years, over 6000 missiles? is that why


oh and yes, shells after fired cant be controlled, the best you can do is make the math before you fire and change the angle of its launch but thats it.

Link

A mortar is relatively simple and easy to operate. A modern mortar consists of a tube into which gunners drop a shell. A firing pin at the base of the tube detonates the propellant and fires the shell. The tube is generally set at between 45 and 85 degrees angle to the ground, with the higher angle giving shorter firing distances.

oh and its been proven that hamas has hidden missiles in schools, apartment buildings and mosques, so why would this be any different.

your the one who is a peice of work, because you deny that hamas is bad and israel is good. open your eyes to reality and not to propoganda you dumb ass

 

[fallout man]

Originally posted by: freshgeardude

your the one who is a peice of work, because you deny that hamas is bad and israel is good.

Where have I said that Hamas is "good?" That's news to me.

open your eyes to reality and not to propoganda you dumb ass

Aren't personal attacks against P&N rules? :laugh:

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Duwelon
You're a fool if you think Israel, even giving up the west bank completely would do anything to stop the violence going on in that region. It wouldn't even measure on the scale in the long run as a step that brought peace to the area. There are way too many palestinians who are religiously (literally) seeking the utter and total destruction of Israel.

For you to come on here and bitch bout Israel colonizing the west bank as a cause for Islamic recruitment against them is just foolishness. There was Religious hatred for the jews before they captured the west bank and there will be religious hatred for them if they would give it back.

There was nearly a million Jews living peacefully all across Muslim lands prior to the State of Israel establish in 1948 after driving hundreds of thousands of Arabs off that land to colonize it.

If you don't understand that, or how the Israel's ongoing colonization of what land Palestinians still hold rightful clam to while holding those people captive under force of military occupation, you are the one who has been fooled here.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: linkgoron

Originally posted by: Cheeseplug
How can you blame Palestinians for shooting rockets at Israel? Gaza has been blockaded by Israel since the Israelis pulled out in 2005. The flow of food, water, electricity, and lots of other supplies has been controlled or limited by Israel. The Israeli's have acted like animals during this current war, shooting at marked UN vehicles and shelling schools full of civilians. It is easy to say that Israel can justify the atrocities because rockets have been hitting them sporadically, but you need to look at why the rockets are being shot in the first place.

And how can the US prop up Israel to the tune of $2.5 billion a year when the 20% Arab minority in the actual country of Israel that are treated as second class citizens compared to the Jewish majority? How can it be a functioning democracy when not all of the citizens are treated equally?

Err the palestinians have been firing rockets at Israel for the last 8 years. Not since 2005.
If the Palestinians are using UN cars as their own, I'd guess that that's the reason Israel shoots an UN cars. The same as why Israel had problems with Ambulances after Hamas used them to carry terrorists and arms into Israel.
If the rockets would have stopped Israel would have let the Palestinians live peacefully. <----exaxtly 100% correct!!
About treating Arab citizens as class b citizens, I have to agree about that. I've always stated that is one the biggest mistakes Israel has ever done.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
If the rockets would have stopped Israel would have let the Palestinians live peacefully. <----exaxtly 100% correct!!

Colonizing peoples homeland while keeping defenceless under massive military force is not peaceful.

That has been going on for far longer than the rockets or any popular support for attacks on Israel.

Israeli people want peace, but their leaders do everything they can to avoid peace in their mad quest to continue colonizing Palestinian territory.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
If the rockets would have stopped Israel would have let the Palestinians live peacefully. <----exaxtly 100% correct!!

Maybe, maybe not, you have no idea what would have happened. It's not really the point though is it? If Britain had surrendered to Germany in WWII they would have let us live peacefully, but that still counts as losing the war, doesn't it? Of course there's no real comparison between WWII and Israel vs the Arabs, especially in terms of scale, but to the people on the ground in Gaza it's everything - it's their whole life - there's no way they're just going to give up. What this situation needs is a 3rd party to come in and hold the two sides apart until they calm down.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Duwelon
You're a fool if you think Israel, even giving up the west bank completely would do anything to stop the violence going on in that region. It wouldn't even measure on the scale in the long run as a step that brought peace to the area. There are way too many palestinians who are religiously (literally) seeking the utter and total destruction of Israel.

For you to come on here and bitch bout Israel colonizing the west bank as a cause for Islamic recruitment against them is just foolishness. There was Religious hatred for the jews before they captured the west bank and there will be religious hatred for them if they would give it back.

There was nearly a million Jews living peacefully all across Muslim lands prior to the State of Israel establish in 1948 after driving hundreds of thousands of Arabs off that land to colonize it.

If you don't understand that, or how the Israel's ongoing colonization of what land Palestinians still hold rightful clam to while holding those people captive under force of military occupation, you are the one who has been fooled here.

What exactly are you saying then? First you indicate you are not anti-Israel, railing against the West Bank settlements, now you're seemingly against Israel all together.

DO you support the existance of ISrael proper at all?

 

[linkgoron]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
If the rockets would have stopped Israel would have let the Palestinians live peacefully. <----exaxtly 100% correct!!

Maybe, maybe not, you have no idea what would have happened. It's not really the point though is it? If Britain had surrendered to Germany in WWII they would have let us live peacefully, but that still counts as losing the war, doesn't it? Of course there's no real comparison between WWII and Israel vs the Arabs, especially in terms of scale, but to the people on the ground in Gaza it's everything - it's their whole life - there's no way they're just going to give up. What this situation needs is a 3rd party to come in and hold the two sides apart until they calm down.

Last time I checked Germany started the war with Britain, and they were planning on conquering Europe (which they did). I would guess that Germany would not let people in Britain live peacefully.

On the other hand, Israel is trying to defend it's country. They don't want to conquer and re-occupy Gaza.

What a dumb analogy.

 

[fallout man]

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Duwelon
You're a fool if you think Israel, even giving up the west bank completely would do anything to stop the violence going on in that region. It wouldn't even measure on the scale in the long run as a step that brought peace to the area. There are way too many palestinians who are religiously (literally) seeking the utter and total destruction of Israel.

For you to come on here and bitch bout Israel colonizing the west bank as a cause for Islamic recruitment against them is just foolishness. There was Religious hatred for the jews before they captured the west bank and there will be religious hatred for them if they would give it back.

There was nearly a million Jews living peacefully all across Muslim lands prior to the State of Israel establish in 1948 after driving hundreds of thousands of Arabs off that land to colonize it.

If you don't understand that, or how the Israel's ongoing colonization of what land Palestinians still hold rightful clam to while holding those people captive under force of military occupation, you are the one who has been fooled here.

What exactly are you saying then? First you indicate you are not anti-Israel, railing against the West Bank settlements, now you're seemingly against Israel all together.

DO you support the existance of ISrael proper at all?

Dumbelon: your shift key is sticky. Lay off the Mountain Dew.

TheSnowman: tell the man you love and respect Israel, lest you get labeled an anti-semite.

 

[Oyeve]

There will never be peace in that region. Ever. Only total wipeout on both side and start from scratch will set things right. In other word, civilization needs to be totally wiped out and started from scratch. We are headed there now. I just hope whomever survives gets it right.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: linkgoron

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
If the rockets would have stopped Israel would have let the Palestinians live peacefully. <----exaxtly 100% correct!!

Maybe, maybe not, you have no idea what would have happened. It's not really the point though is it? If Britain had surrendered to Germany in WWII they would have let us live peacefully, but that still counts as losing the war, doesn't it? Of course there's no real comparison between WWII and Israel vs the Arabs, especially in terms of scale, but to the people on the ground in Gaza it's everything - it's their whole life - there's no way they're just going to give up. What this situation needs is a 3rd party to come in and hold the two sides apart until they calm down.

Last time I checked Germany started the war with Britain, and they were planning on conquering Europe (which they did). I would guess that Germany would not let people in Britain live peacefully.

On the other hand, Israel is trying to defend it's country. They don't want to conquer and re-occupy Gaza.

What a dumb analogy.

Actually we declared war on Germany when they invaded Poland, and they may never have tried to invade us if they weren't forced to, but whatever. My point is that people don't give up becasue people don't give up. It's all about pride and patriotism not self preservation - otherwise the weaker side would never bother fighting at all.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Duwelon
What exactly are you saying then? First you indicate you are not anti-Israel, railing against the West Bank settlements, now you're seemingly against Israel all together.

DO you support the existance of ISrael proper at all?

I firmly support the existence of Israel, any you have simply misunderstood me if you thought I have ever said anything to suggest the contrary.

I am simply against the ongoing colonization, just as I am against the terrorism of those being colonized, as both do nothing but perpetuate this madness and bring more bloodshed and hatred to both sides.

Do you understand that aside from the tiny strip of Gaza, the West Bank is the vast majority of what little of their homeland land Palestinians still hold rightful claim to?

 

[Freshgeardude]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Duwelon
What exactly are you saying then? First you indicate you are not anti-Israel, railing against the West Bank settlements, now you're seemingly against Israel all together.

DO you support the existance of ISrael proper at all?

I firmly support the existence of Israel, any you have simply misunderstood me if you thought I have ever said anything to suggest the contrary.

I am simply against the ongoing colonization, just as I am against the terrorism of those being colonized, as both do nothing but perpetuate this madness and bring more bloodshed and hatred to both sides.

Do you understand that aside from the tiny strip of Gaza, the West Bank is the vast majority of what little of their homeland land Palestinians still hold rightful claim to?

I understand your point on the west bank colonization, but the west bank and gaza are ran by 2 different governments.

Fatah and Hamas.

those who are in the west bank are being ran by fatah and live in basic peace. if this conflict is because of the west bank colonization why arent they fighting and people not even in the west bank ( in gaza) are fighting for land their government group isnt even in control.

it doesnt make sense.

what does make sense is that fatah is peaceful with israel, israel lets them come in to work on israeli land.

hamas wants to take over israel, teach kids from young to hate jews, give them bad living standards and spend money of government on missiles and mortar shells.


what I think needs to happen is, wipe hamas ALL out of gaza, move in fatah, and over a couple of years it will get better. have some israel control of the area watching over, similar to how the US army is helping Iraq's government take over. and solve this conflict

 

[Lemon law]

While I agree with the basic Atheus premise of what "What this situation needs is a 3rd party to come in and hold the two sides apart until they calm down." , what I can't quite agree with the calm down part.

Because what is needed is that third party to restore fairness to an unfair situation, Israel has a right to exists but that right to exist can't be built on thievery from Palestinians or the eq2ually wrong exploitation of Palestinians. And what we have gotten is an Israeli State based on both Apartheid principles and separate and unequal discrimination based on religion. And a clear calculus that success for one group can only be built on the extermination of the other with no common goals possible. And that attitude is made inevitable by an Apartheid Israeli structure that totally prevents any integration in schooling, public, life, employment,
a very effective way for both sides to regard each other as in humane monsters.

And somewhat for that very reason, any 3'rd party arbitration must be based on both integration and the principles of shared common goals, and until the Palestinians and Israelis can find common goals, its difficult for me to see much hope for peace.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Duwelon
What exactly are you saying then? First you indicate you are not anti-Israel, railing against the West Bank settlements, now you're seemingly against Israel all together.

DO you support the existance of ISrael proper at all?

I firmly support the existence of Israel, any you have simply misunderstood me if you thought I have ever said anything to suggest the contrary.

I am simply against the ongoing colonization, just as I am against the terrorism of those being colonized, as both do nothing but perpetuate this madness and bring more bloodshed and hatred to both sides.

Do you understand that aside from the tiny strip of Gaza, the West Bank is the vast majority of what little of their homeland land Palestinians still hold rightful claim to?

You said earlier: "There was nearly a million Jews living peacefully all across Muslim lands prior to the State of Israel establish in 1948 after driving hundreds of thousands of Arabs off that land to colonize it. "

If you have an issue with Israel colonizing the west bank, then you have issue with Israel colonizing... Israel, correct? By your own words you fault the violence in Israel to the Israeli's colonization of the west bank, but you still cite the same hatred alive in the very existence of Israel proper. If the west bank became another state, by definition of your own words, violence against Israel would still be warranted.